Oculus Rift VR headset

[rasdenfasden 12]

Jisses people, it´s a great tech to make the gaming experience better for people that wanna use it. If you don´t know were your hand and fingers are on the keyboard you don´t have to use it. I´m just saying that IF you can play Arma without looking at your keyboard all the time you should get the choice to play with it.

If it is possible to get the game to support it, why not? Just because someone wants to play the game without it, does´t mean everyone has to.

Well said.

[jumpinghubert 48]

............................................

for some things brainpower is needed. For example to learn typing with 10 fingers without looking to keyboard.....or to IMAGINE your head is completely in a kind of holodeck instead of looking to a fixed monitor. And if you lack the brainpower you can alternatively make an online petition AGAINST using oculus rift in arma3...good luck.....lol²

[-=seany=- 5]

Jisses people, it´s a great tech to make the gaming experience better for people that wanna use it. If you don´t know were your hand and fingers are on the keyboard you don´t have to use it. I´m just saying that IF you can play Arma without looking at your keyboard all the time you should get the choice to play with it.

If it is possible to get the game to support it, why not? Just because someone wants to play the game without it, does´t mean everyone has to.

Believe me, pretty much everyone agrees with you, just some folks like to nay-say about everything and anything :D

[batto 17]

There could be virtual hand & keyboard created from sensors on your fingers and 2 sensors on real keyboard. But it seems no-one took the idea yet.

Also voice control for more complex commands like AI control would be nice too ;).

And keyboard with analog keys would be even cooler ;).

Edited January 12, 2013 by batto

[Harzach 2505]

I'm definitely not a nay-sayer. I love technological advancement - heck, my industry thrives on it. This thing seems pretty cool and I'm sure there will be plenty of games and gamers taking advantage of it (or not - see: Novint Falcon). For me, however, the disconnect from my surroundings is a nonstarter.

[Minoza 11]

Is it possible that there is space beneath the device, an opening, just enough so that you can see the keyboard it you tilt your head up a bit? No one thought of that?

[Jakobsson87 1]

Is it possible that there is space beneath the device, an opening, just enough so that you can see the keyboard it you tilt your head up a bit? No one thought of that?

I think the point of the headset is to close in the game so it feels that you are in the environment. From the videos I have seen they say it is like actually being there (don´t think I mean that it feels real, but more that your in the game). If you open up the headset you will probably destroy that feeling.

But I my self haven´t tried them so I cant say.

[sethos 2]

Not in a game where you need to use 100 buttons and not 10.

Sure for many other games where your controls go barely beyond the usual WASD it will be sweet

What game do you play that requires 100 buttons? I'm playing a lot of sims, including DCS A-10 and I rarely ever use my keyboard and the buttons I need, I know where are. Then again, I know how to blindtype.

[dsi24 12]

I think the point of the headset is to close in the game so it feels that you are in the environment. From the videos I have seen they say it is like actually being there (don´t think I mean that it feels real, but more that your in the game). If you open up the headset you will probably destroy that feeling.

But I my self haven´t tried them so I cant say.

The biggest problems with Oculus Rift (besides resolution and refresh rate, which are constantly improving) are the games themselves. Flat textures are acceptable on our flat 2D screens, but when you can visually inspect them as if it was real life, suddenly everything seems terrible. The same goes for boxy, disconnected UIs and HUDs, lack of first person viewmodels, and the general scale of things. (The last two don't apply to ArmA, so in that aspect BI is already ahead)

There are a couple of videos where people stick their camera up to one of the eyepieces, it looks like you're peering through the eyepiece of a gas mask or something instead of at a screen. Pulling the HMD away from your eyes to hunt n' peck your keyboard is going to turn the experience from "in the world" to "looking through a mask into the world"

[Jakobsson87 1]

The biggest problems with Oculus Rift (besides resolution and refresh rate, which are constantly improving) are the games themselves. Flat textures are acceptable on our flat 2D screens, but when you can visually inspect them as if it was real life, suddenly everything seems terrible. The same goes for boxy, disconnected UIs and HUDs, lack of first person viewmodels, and the general scale of things. (The last two don't apply to ArmA, so in that aspect BI is already ahead)

There are a couple of videos where people stick their camera up to one of the eyepieces, it looks like you're peering through the eyepiece of a gas mask or something instead of at a screen. Pulling the HMD away from your eyes to hunt n' peck your keyboard is going to turn the experience from "in the world" to "looking through a mask into the world"

As I said I have not tried them myself so I can´t really say. But the people that have tried them are game critics and they say it is a awesome feeling to play with them and that there is a feeling of being in the world, and they have tried it with Doom not the best game on the market right now so it can´t be that bad.

As for the resolution, the people that have developed this VR headset say that the are looking in to make it higher when they release the costumer version. And the MS is said to be near nothing, they show what the people see in the headset on a screen in some of the videos but always point out that there is higher MS on the screen than what there is in the headset.

As for the HUD and everything I cant say.

VR headset is not a new thing so I´m guessing with all the good critics this thing is getting it must be something good about it.

And if they are as good as the critics say it is, I would love to play Arma 3 with them.

---

The biggest problems with Oculus Rift (besides resolution and refresh rate, which are constantly improving) are the games themselves. Flat textures are acceptable on our flat 2D screens, but when you can visually inspect them as if it was real life, suddenly everything seems terrible. The same goes for boxy, disconnected UIs and HUDs, lack of first person viewmodels, and the general scale of things. (The last two don't apply to ArmA, so in that aspect BI is already ahead)

There are a couple of videos where people stick their camera up to one of the eyepieces, it looks like you're peering through the eyepiece of a gas mask or something instead of at a screen. Pulling the HMD away from your eyes to hunt n' peck your keyboard is going to turn the experience from "in the world" to "looking through a mask into the world"

The resolution is said from the dev team to be higher in the consumer version. And the MS is near to nothing, in a video I think I heard 0,7.

That´s why they have released the dev kit of Oculus rift so the game dev can play around and with it and see how the effectively can implement this to the games, to figure out ways to make it work with games and give feedback to the Oculus dev team so they can make it better before they release the consumer version.

About the feeling like playing in a mask I don´t know anything about cause I have´t tried them, but in the videos I have watched the critics say it´s awesome and it feels like being in the world so it can´t be that bad.

VR headsets have been around for some time now, so when the critics get this all worked up playing Doom with them there got to be something good about them.

If the headset is as good as they say, then playing Arma with them should be a really good experience.

Again about not finding the right keys on your keyboard, if you can´t play Arma without looking down at your keyboard all the time then maybe you should´t use this headset.

Edited January 13, 2013 by [FRL]Myke

[SnowSky 12]

Hey another idea, perhaps it is possible to have a camera watch on your keyboard, and if you press a specific button (for example left CTRL) you will get the cameraview for 5 seconds displayed on the bottom and you see your fingers. Sure this can be setup then as you want, with another key, or for less seconds. if the cameraview is then a bit transparent, you can watch the keyboard when needed, or play in full screen without anything else on it

[Pulverizer 1]

the MS is near to nothing, in a video I think I heard 0,7.

More like 45-60ms of latency. Or maybe once in a blue moon with the right configuration 30ms.

One of the trickiest issues in creating immersive VR is latency—the total amount of time it takes to run each frame through the techno-wizardry that the Oculus uses to put you in the middle of a virtual environment. Mitchell broke down the pipeline as such: it’s about two milliseconds for the sensor tracking your head movements to send that data to the computer, 16 milliseconds for your system to render a frame, about 15 or 20 milliseconds to send that visual data back to the headset, and then finally, another 15 to 20 (sometimes more) milliseconds for the pixels inside the headset’s stereoscopic panel to switch over.

That breaks down with a complex, theoretical branch of mathematics called “mental addition†to about 60 milliseconds, or six percent of one second. That might not sound like much, but it is enough to be noticable and cause a bit of “drift†between when you move your head, and when the image refreshes. Additionally, games streamed from the cloud will add their own, additional latency to the stack. Mitchell told Tested that they’re aiming to shave that down to about 30-40 seconds, which he described as “the sweet spot for a compelling VR experience,†adding, “Obviously, the closer we get to zero, the more immersive it’s going to be.â€

[PuFu 4591]

Hey another idea, perhaps it is possible to have a camera watch on your keyboard, and if you press a specific button (for example left CTRL) you will get the cameraview for 5 seconds displayed on the bottom and you see your fingers. Sure this can be setup then as you want, with another key, or for less seconds. if the cameraview is then a bit transparent, you can watch the keyboard when needed, or play in full screen without anything else on it

Most day by day computer users can blind type and have a accurate idea where their keys are. That said, there are Overlays that can show the pressed key. I feel using one of those in conjunction with Oculus will most likely allow a better understanding if of a key layout.

to nay-sayers: A3 should be Oculus ready if you ask me, no matter if you would go and buy one or not, or feel there are show stoppers when in comes to seeing the keys that need to be pressed.

[SnowSky 12]

Most day by day computer users can blind type and have a accurate idea where their keys are. That said, there are Overlays that can show the pressed key. I feel using one of those in conjunction with Oculus will most likely allow a better understanding if of a key layout.

...

Well I for my part noted that when the room is dark and I have a black keyboard, that my errors raise dramatically, even if I can blind type. Even if you don't watch your keyboard directly, you have a situational awareness of where your fingers are related to the keyboard, especially when you have to switch the right hand between mouse/keyboard or do press keys with the left hand which have to be pressed with right hand normally.

I don't want to offend you, but saying that people who might have problems with the keys should not use it or are simply nay-ers is the wrong way. The better way is finding possible solution/s.

New technology always has to face such problems, and the more they go into it, the more it gets rewarded in my opinion.

Guess they face the problem, more people will use this product and it will be supported also more by gamedevs.

[metalcraze 290]

What game do you play that requires 100 buttons? I'm playing a lot of sims, including DCS A-10 and I rarely ever use my keyboard and the buttons I need, I know where are. Then again, I know how to blindtype.

Try blindtyping with only your left hand (because in ArmA you can't just release the mouse) and report back bro

[PuFu 4591]

Well I for my part noted that when the room is dark and I have a black keyboard, that my errors raise dramatically, even if I can blind type. Even if you don't watch your keyboard directly, you have a situational awareness of where your fingers are related to the keyboard, especially when you have to switch the right hand between mouse/keyboard or do press keys with the left hand which have to be pressed with right hand normally.

While this is partly true (peripheral vission) it is also a matter of sensing the keyboard. I for instance have an illuminsted keyboard (not the gaming type) while my brother has a gaming one with extra keys on the left side, which i always find frustrating for typing when i visit him due to having the keys ofset to the right from edge.

Same goes for the ipad i am writting this message from: because i cannot feel the keys, and even with those keys visually closer to the typing area, i am making a lot more mistakes than i normally do on a normal 102 keyboard.

What i am trying to say is that there is more than vission when it comes to beeing aware of where those pesky keys are.

I don't want to offend you, but saying that people who might have problems with the keys should not use it or are simply nay-ers is the wrong way. The better way is finding possible solution/s.

New technology always has to face such problems, and the more they go into it, the more it gets rewarded in my opinion.

Guess they face the problem, more people will use this product and it will be supported also more by gamedevs.

None taking. But when i said nay-sayers i was refering to the prople that are answering the question "should a3 support oculus rift from the get go" with "no, because i will have problem finding my keys". Some might have no issues at all, and buy it. If any of those no-no guys cannot adapt, they have the option NOT to purchase this particular product, instead going for trackir, or no such device at all.

All i am saying is that bis should take this into serious consideration, no matter of the possible draw-backs of the product. it is like saying they shouldn't support a particular joystick, because it is too expensive and no one would buy it anyways, or because certain reviews say it strains your wrist after prolonged use..

[dmarkwick 261]

I think the total-goggles thing is a valid reason not to get yourself an Occulus-Rift, but not a valid reason to not develop for it :) On the other hand, unless Occulus-Rift is easy and dependable platform, then BIS would not be blamed for not bothering :)

My own concern is not with the device itself, but with the driver and its abilities. I've had some experience playing ArmA & ArmA 2 in 3D and it has it's charms. In particular I used the IZ3D driver which allowed me to use ArmA/ArmA2 in 3D for the price of some red/blue glasses. The IZ3D driver did one thing exactly right - it had a feature that allowed you to specify not only inter-occular distance, but allowed you to specify per eye. There is a VERY good reason for this.

Imagine what will happen in a 3D game when you bring the rifle up to ironsights, the rifle will be lined up with your nose. If you can specify occular positioning per eye then you can leave the right eye unmoved and move the left eye 7 cm to the left. That way, when you go to ironsights you close your left eye to get a down-the-rifle view when you need it.

I've tried explaining this before but not a lot of people can see it.

[jumpinghubert 48]

in pc-gaming mostly you had QUANTITATIVE kind of progress the last decades: more displayresolution, more ingame-details, more effects etc.

the combination of 3d without ghosting (2 separated pictures), big field of view and headmoving is a one of the rare QUALITATIVE steps forward. I repeat, its like to have the head in a holodek. There are a few drawbacks? Marginal and resolvable. I guess a few people have lack of imagination for qualitative gamechangers.

its like to say against real parachuting: no, its not cool because its unconfortable to have the heavy parachute on the back :p

Sorry for my crap english

Edited January 13, 2013 by JumpingHubert

[rasdenfasden 12]

Imagine what will happen in a 3D game when you bring the rifle up to ironsights, the rifle will be lined up with your nose. If you can specify occular positioning per eye then you can leave the right eye unmoved and move the left eye 7 cm to the left. That way, when you go to ironsights you close your left eye to get a down-the-rifle view when you need it.

I've tried explaining this before but not a lot of people can see it.

It would be cool if only one eye was aligned with the sights, and you had to close the other one. That, or one side could get blacked out completely (which I imagine would be quite jarring). Perhaps you could even have it so that when you look through the scope you see the scope's picture on one eye and the unzoomed outside view on the other, allowing you to check your surroundings by winking. It would take one hell of a PC for that though.

[sethos 2]

Try blindtyping with only your left hand (because in ArmA you can't just release the mouse) and report back bro

I have no problem doing that.

[NKato 0]

Oculus Rift support for ArmA 3, make it so! </Picard>

[waxman 5]

It would be cool if only one eye was aligned with the sights, and you had to close the other one. That, or one side could get blacked out completely (which I imagine would be quite jarring). Perhaps you could even have it so that when you look through the scope you see the scope's picture on one eye and the unzoomed outside view on the other, allowing you to check your surroundings by winking. It would take one hell of a PC for that though.

This is the other thing i was thinking about, giving us proper sight usage, look through with both eyes open to give situational awareness squint close one eye to focus only through the sight. With stereo 3d where the sight is correctly offset and visible mostly through 1 eye this would require no graphics tricks or game UI to simulate this (black out the whole screen but for an enlarged scope sight).

The whole issue with not being able to see the keyboard directly for confirmation or even peripherally to aid positioning is why I believe a replacement / addition is required that places enough keys / controls accessible with out having to relocate your hands. Touch typing requires very little movement of the hands from resting position it is the large scale movements that take time to locate and bring back the hands to resting position this is considerably increased when hunting for any tactile feedback (F and J key ridges for example).

[chrisb 196]

I have more or less all my playing keys configured for use on my Nostromo and mouse, so there is no need really to keep looking at the keyboard, I don't now when playing, so this would be a great addition to Arma3, should they make it compatible (doubtful).

When making missions obviously you would go back to the original format, but for playing, it would be almost total emersion, fantastic.

It would be on my shopping list for sure, well dependant on price, of course.;).

[Prezzer 1]

Would be nice.

[4 IN 1 0]

Well, I can use the keyboard "words" part and the number pad blindly pretty good under most conditions, number rows, however, is a lot harder