Oculus Rift VR headset

[kremator 1065]

It's all sewn up. Sounds like really fishy practices here.

I hope it does not impact in ANY way on the rift - otherwise I will be very annoyed with BIS.

[progamer 14]

It's all sewn up. Sounds like really fishy practices here.

I hope it does not impact in ANY way on the rift - otherwise I will be very annoyed with BIS.

Looking into this situation shows that BIS has a dealings with natural point in the past but they added support for freetrack which shows they aren't locked in Naturalpoint's grip. Competition forces innovation and competitive prices, something head tracker seriously needs.

[Masharra 10]

Ordered my trackIR like two days ago. Youre gonna support some "evil" company no matter what you do may as well be them.

[Wolfstriked 11]

From simast link: "The founder and President of 777 Studios, known for developing WWI flight simulator Rise of Flight, happens to be a former NaturalPoint TrackIR Product Manager and is adamant to never support any means of head tracking besides TrackIR without NaturalPoint approval."

http://naturalpointofview.blogspot.se/p/naturalpoint-statements.html#Former_NaturalPoint_employee_makes_TrackIR_exclusive_game

Haha nice find there but thing is that he wants it to succeed and is pushing ROF and BOS towards having it implemented.Just try to look behind you while in your chair and then look up and then over to other side and I see his point.My neck was creaking from one try of it.HE said that the bad point of it will be with dogfight plane sims but everything will be amazing.

[Covert_Death 11]

Haha nice find there but thing is that he wants it to succeed and is pushing ROF and BOS towards having it implemented.Just try to look behind you while in your chair and then look up and then over to other side and I see his point.My neck was creaking from one try of it.HE said that the bad point of it will be with dogfight plane sims but everything will be amazing.

sure you may not be able to do a full 180, but is the OR not MORE realistic? in a flight sim, that is key to me. sure itd be nice to look through the back of my head from time to time, but i also sit in a swivel chair, so if need be its doable. point is, it ACCURATELY emulates the human head movement, even down to its flaws, like not being able to do a full 180.

[progamer 14]

sure you may not be able to do a full 180, but is the OR not MORE realistic? in a flight sim, that is key to me. sure itd be nice to look through the back of my head from time to time, but i also sit in a swivel chair, so if need be its doable. point is, it ACCURATELY emulates the human head movement, even down to its flaws, like not being able to do a full 180.

Why don't we include a slider for movement translation? if you don't like 1:1 then try 1:2 or somewhere above, in between or below.

[WalkerDown 1]

I still don't understand why we're discussing about that crap trackIR in the Oculus Rift thread. We're not asking the developers to invest 6 months of their time to develop a alien technology, we're asking to implement something in max 2 weeks with a single man working time that's not only useful, nice, fun and modern, but it also gives a push to the product for marketing purposes (free advertising, as anything else "touched" by the Oculus Rift today). This is really a no-brainer, there shouldn't be any discussion at all, it's like asking someone if he wants $1000 for free .... but I see ppl loves to complains about anything today. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

Depressing prediction: if & when Oculus Rift support does NOT appear - there will be accusations & suspicions of shady dealings with NaturalPoint.

---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

I still don't understand why we're discussing about that crap trackIR in the Oculus Rift thread. We're not asking the developers to invest 6 months of their time to develop a alien technology, we're asking to implement something in max 2 weeks with a single man working time that's not only useful, nice, fun and modern, but it also gives a push to the product for marketing purposes (free advertising, as anything else "touched" by the Oculus Rift today). This is really a no-brainer, there shouldn't be any discussion at all, it's like asking someone if he wants $1000 for free .... but I see ppl loves to complains about anything today. :)

We're discussing it because TrackIR is its natural competitor, already exists, and is successful in it's application, and is used by a great many people who have relevant experience in headtracking usage.

As for whether it's a no-brainer, simple, and provides free marketing etc, I guess that like other developments it either is, or is not, happening and BIS will only announce if & when there is anything to announce. My best guess is that there will be a decision made on a stable consumer release of Oculus Rift.

[tupolov 520]

Works already...?

[dmarkwick 261]

Works already...?

It looks (to me) like that's head tracking only, I didn't see any 3D in the scenery...?

[andersson 285]

I watched it and crossed my eyes and got something that looked like a 3D effect in the "third" picture that are created between the two original. So it looks like the 3D is working.

[WalkerDown 1]

We're discussing it because TrackIR is its natural competitor

Oculus Rift is more a competitor of your monitor than your head-tracking device. The fact that the TrackIR will die when the OR will emerges on the mass-market is not because they are competitors, but only because the OR offers the tracking capability as well... it's just a consequence. :)

My best guess is that there will be a decision made on a stable consumer release of Oculus Rift.

Arma3 is being developed now, the consumer version of the OR may comes after. The DEV kits serves exactly to this purpose: they gives to the developers the possibility to add the support the games being developed, so there's enough time for tests and adjustments while waiting for the consumers. More time you have to test, better will be the implementation, there's no reason to wait.

[dmarkwick 261]

Oculus Rift is more a competitor of your monitor than your head-tracking device. The fact that the TrackIR will die when the OR will emerges on the mass-market is not because they are competitors, but only because the OR offers the tracking capability as well... it's just a consequence. :)

Well, as usual there are several factors to consider as to whether TrackIR will disappear or not :) :

Price

bulk/weight

visibility (of keyboard/HOTAS etc)

resolution/fov etc

tracking abilities (eg OR is rotation-only at the moment, it needs to be 6DoF to really compete in that)

setup

features (proportional rot/tran etc)

other features (separation of eye on a per-eye basis for example, VERY important for ironsights & other collimated type sights)

...stuff like that. I'm not saying it won't be worth getting, I'll probably get one myself if certain of the above is implemented, but as to whether it makes TrackIR redundant - I'm not sure. There are reasons to prefer any one above the other.

Arma3 is being developed now, the consumer version of the OR may comes after. The DEV kits serves exactly to this purpose: they gives to the developers the possibility to add the support the games being developed, so there's enough time for tests and adjustments while waiting for the consumers. More time you have to test, better will be the implementation, there's no reason to wait.

True I suppose, my remark was only a casual guess :) If the company were to throw one BIS's way I'm sure they would play about with it... :)

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

I watched it and crossed my eyes and got something that looked like a 3D effect in the "third" picture that are created between the two original. So it looks like the 3D is working.

I saw some 3D-ishness with the HUD displays etc, just not the actual scenery.

[Covert_Death 11]

It looks (to me) like that's head tracking only, I didn't see any 3D in the scenery...?

it is not very extreme, and i think the landscape may not be 3d yet but the GUN is 3d. pause the video at any moment and compare the same object... the gun on the left eye is closer to the right edge and the gun on the left eye is slightly shifted to the left slightly, creating an overlap that will give it depth, the trees and rest of the scenery however i was not able to distinguish different placements....

each gun also had a "halo" effect around it, the left eye on the left side and the right eye on the right side, so i think he might have possibly modified the gun file and had two separate renders for each eye

[kremator 1065]

I don't care how much the commercial version of the rift will be ... I'll buy it ! Too right! If only for the WOAH factor.

Pleased to see that some progress is being made with Arma3 and the rift already! Good job.

[progamer 14]

Submitted a ticket for this issue: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8508 support the Oculus rift!

[WalkerDown 1]

Citation needed, etc.

Again, I'm all for new tech that increases immersion, but until the OR isn't a significant downgrade in display resolution and head-tracking configurability, it isn't replacing anything.

Honestly TIR "as is" should have already died, considering that today there's valid and cheaper alternatives, it survived only because many products have forced us to use that specific product since of the exclusive drivers support. I still don't understand how's a cam and 6 iR leds costs more than 100 bucks.. this is my main concerns about this, and this is why I can't wait for it to finally die, or at least forcing the company to apply a honest price (that should be less than half of the current price).

[dmarkwick 261]

Honestly TIR "as is" should have already died, considering that today there's valid and cheaper alternatives, it survived only because many products have forced us to use that specific product since of the exclusive drivers support. I still don't understand how's a cam and 6 iR leds costs more than 100 bucks.. this is my main concerns about this, and this is why I can't wait for it to finally die, or at least forcing the company to apply a honest price (that should be less than half of the current price).

It's more than an IR cam with LEDs, there is some amount of processing that comes from it too, freeing up the CPU from tracking work. That's why it performs better than the alternatives. As for the price... I found the price to be bearable. I only have to buy it once, and it works very well so I have no complaints about that side if it. I would say I've had value from it :)

---------- Post added at 07:25 ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 ----------

TrackIR gives some advantage (more in other games, like flight sims than in ArmA tho...), but it's a overpriced pirce of crap, that didn't changed by 6 years (or more). We need to support the new technology and not something that doesn't evolves by years.

If a product works, and works for years, I don't understand what improvements you might be talking about, or why Naturalpoint should strive to constantly bring out new products when the existing one is good.

I mean, do you feel the same way about your joystick? Do you wonder why they haven't improved it? I suppose with the OR they'll be constantly upgrading the resolution & design of the product.... I guess that'll make you happy ;) :)

[WalkerDown 1]

It's more than an IR cam with LEDs, there is some amount of processing that comes from it too, freeing up the CPU from tracking work.

We are talking about basic trigonometry, there's nothing complex to calculate, it might occupy a negligible number of cycles of any modern CPU. Plus they weren't capable of improving anything, and it does NOT works better of alternatives. Todays we have tracking devices that (intelligently) are capable of reading the position of your face, eyes or your whole body, passively, while with the trackIR you're still forced to wear something (reflector, active leds). It is absurd that in those years they are still selling basically the same devices but improving the refresh (look at the TiR5 vs the TiR4 and tell me the differences in-game), counting on the fact that none invaded the same market already (probably because it wasn't appetizer for the big brands), but the play is finally going to over.

That's why it performs better than the alternatives. As for the price... I found the price to be bearable. I only have to buy it once, and it works very well so I have no complaints about that side if it. I would say I've had value from it :)

Nor they are selling a cam and 6 leds for crazy prices, they are also selling the track-clip pro for more than $30 ... it's 3 (THREE!) damn IR leds ... now you're going to tell me that it contains also a chip to calculate the rotation of the earth orbit? The fun part is that the track-clip pro exists because of the lacks in the main device of tracking the passive reflectors under certain (often common) situation, like having a light source around. It should be really included with the product already.. but they are selling it at gold price.

Whenever I have paied this company big money, purchasing these devices during the last years, I cannot defend their policy. I applauded their first invention, but after several years it's time to abandon this no-innovation-money-machine .. it's 2013, we need something better.

[dmarkwick 261]

We are talking about basic trigonometry, there's nothing complex to calculate, it might occupy a negligible number of cycles of any modern CPU. Plus they weren't capable of improving anything, and it does NOT works better of alternatives. Todays we have tracking devices that (intelligently) are capable of reading the position of your face, eyes or your whole body, passively, while with the trackIR you're still forced to wear something (reflector, active leds).

What other tracking devices? Either you're talking about Kinect type devices or CPU-expensive software solutions tied to a web-cam? Either way, TrackIR is only another solution similar to those. Either take it or leave it :)

It is absurd that in those years they are still selling basically the same devices but improving the refresh (look at the TiR5 vs the TiR4 and tell me the differences in-game), counting on the fact that none invaded the same market already (probably because it wasn't appetizer for the big brands), but the play is finally going to over.

*shrug* difference between TrackIR 4 & 5 is wider FoV, and faster refresh. Not worth the price if you already have a TrackIR 4.... but I cannot fathom your attitude over this. Device works, what's the beef? You don't like the hat? :)

Nor they are selling a cam and 6 leds for crazy prices, they are also selling the track-clip pro for more than $30 ... it's 3 (THREE!) damn IR leds ... now you're going to tell me that it contains also a chip to calculate the rotation of the earth orbit?

Why would you invent such a scenario?

The fun part is that the track-clip pro exists because of the lacks in the main device of tracking the passive reflectors under certain (often common) situation, like having a light source around. It should be really included with the product already.. but they are selling it at gold price.

*sigh* then don't buy it, or make your own. Myself I don't wish for one so I wouldn't care for it to be included in the base product, but that's just me.

Whenever I have paied this company big money, purchasing these devices during the last years, I cannot defend their policy. I applauded their first invention, but after several years it's time to abandon this no-innovation-money-machine .. it's 2013, we need something better.

*shrug* look, if you've got a downer over Naturalpoint then that's your own business :)

I'm not trying to defend Naturalpoint and champion it over Oculus Rift, obviously they're both going to have their advantages & disadvantages. If OR turns into something amazing I'll be buying one no doubt about it. But I don't see that as reason to start thinking of TrackIR as suddenly a terrible product. Fact is, it's as useful to me now as it ever was, several years after I bought it, no issues, no downsides.

[WalkerDown 1]

What other tracking devices? Either you're talking about Kinect type devices or CPU-expensive software solutions tied to a web-cam? Either way, TrackIR is only another solution similar to those. Either take it or leave it :)

Yes, the Kinect is technologically superior for half of that price. The Kinect brought us some fresh air and innovation, and what about the Leap Motion? TIR did almost nothing by years.

They didn't even invested time to find a solution to the reflective markers, they had the brilliant idea of giving you 3 leds (track-clip pro) forgetting that there's ppl with wireless headphones.

I want to give my money to help the innovation, and I hope that these new devices will force them to move their arse, to lower their price, or to be out of the market.

[EDcase 87]

...

FFS let it go already!!!!

You dont like NaturalPoint or TrackIR... WE GET IT

This thread is about OculusRift so lets get back on that topic shall we...?

Edited May 23, 2013 by EDcase

[WalkerDown 1]

[Kemeros 1]

That video gave me one hell of a gaming boner. Just so cool. Can't wait to have one of those.

[jw custom 56]

That video gave me one hell of a gaming boner. Just so cool. Can't wait to have one of those.

Indeed, but after reading more here the "WAUW" went down a bit, but in such a low price range i might give it a go.

http://the-games-veda.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/oculus-rift-dev-kit-review-part-i.html