Oculus Rift VR headset

[sqb-sma 66]

do you work for natural point?

have you even tried rift?

i have, and it is amazing..

i own a trackir and it is crap

It's not crap, TrackIR is leaps and bounds better than non-trackIR gameplay, and it is a better solution (gameplay wise, the Rift will still triumph where immersion is concerned) than the current Oculus dev kit. However if the PPD is increased on future Rifts then trackIR will quickly become old news.

Source: I have both.

[dmarkwick 261]

Track IR is first steps to future , Oculus Rift is shitty gimmick for rich people or dumb people. i myself am not rich but i can afford to buy Oculus Rift but i wont because its garbage virtual boy. why i waste my money on expensive monitor so i wont be able to enjoy it . Track IR now is very small and comfortable it mounts on headset and doesnt require your crazy dance moves like Kinect . also Track IR will be better and smaller in future will be integrated in headsets and monitors . and Oculus Rift is bad for your eyes , eyes has muscle if you noticed the closer you sit to monitor for long period of time your eye sight get worse same as reading books. with oculus rift your eyes will be demolished. and about TrackIR i found out only thanks to Arma for me TrackIR > Oculus Rift in every way. also if you get drunk you wont be able to use Oculus Rift

Any time there are two or more products that do similar things, be it games, equipment, sport whatever, you get this sort of idiotic posturing & disinformation based on nothing more than casual assumption and/or fear/jealousy. This thread is trying to maintain an informative path and yet you've decided to waltz in and stir up bad feeling for no purpose or value whatsoever.

Like you, I haven't yet tried Occulus Rift but even I can see that your post is disinformation. If you already own the product you like then I don't see any value in your imaginary inputs.

[jake_krieger 10]

Guys are you all kidding me ? Why are you discussing Trackir ?

I have Trackir but the Oculus Rift is a whole different deal.

Its a revolution.

You can turn your head or body 360° , up and down and you are immersed with 3D Stereoperspective and a FOV of 90° in the virtual world.

You can sense scale.

You can sense fast motions.

You can sense that someobdy or something is really infront of you , if you walk close enough infront of it.

You are much more immersed and have much stronger emotional and intuitive reactions because of the 3D , Headtracking and the aspect of isolation from the outer world .

You are not in your room at home , you are in the middle of a battle fighting for your life.

It is what the military using VBS2 2.0 , is using. They use their own VR systems but none , even these that costs thousands of dollars, match the advancements of the Oculus Rift.

Now before you discuss anything further please watch these videos and then we can talk more :

The perception of fast motions trick people into believing they really ride a rollercoaster , great reactions ensue

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrK2rbHyY_w

Looking down deep falls , makes the viewer feel the urge to step away , falling into a portal in Portal 2 and flying to the other end of the room makes the person feel like flying

Combined with the Razer Hydra the experience in Half Life 2 becomes immensly immersive and the movements and handling of the weapon become so natural you can even use your hydra controllers to aim down the sights with 1:1 hand movement

Using a Razer Hydra Demo in the Unity Engine , it is possible to use Firearms in an even more natural way and bringing the best way iv´e seen using weapons in a virtual envoirment

Flying in helicopters , drving cars or being in any other envoirment in a cockpit using the Oculus Rift enhances your Experience and even your effectiveness immensly

So Bohemia Interactive if you read this

please try to implement Oculus Rift support for ARMA3 . Headtracking won´t be an issue since you already can use TrackIR.

But you need to create a 3D Stereoscopic mode which geniunly creates two images from the same scene from two slightly different positions.

I would be so grateful if you could even try to attempt to implement Razer Hydra support and make the handling of the weapons similar to the Unity Demo i linked.

[dmarkwick 261]

Guys are you all kidding me ? Why are you discussing Trackir ?

Well, we discuss TrackIR because it's in the discussion... :) plus, TrackIR is implemented right now so it's natural to compare the product when there is not yet any implementation of Oculus Rift. It's natural for people who already have & use TrackIR to find out the comparisons.

The rollercoaster demo looks fun :) wish there was a side-by-side of that.

My own feeling is that serious work for OR might not happen until there is a solid consumer release for it.

Edited May 19, 2013 by DMarkwick

[WalkerDown 1]

TrackIR gives some advantage (more in other games, like flight sims than in ArmA tho...), but it's a overpriced pirce of crap, that didn't changed by 6 years (or more). We need to support the new technology and not something that doesn't evolves by years.

I own all the TrackIR versions from the launch, because there were no alternatives (until the facetrackNoir), but i'm perfectly aware of its limits, it's time to forget this expensive thing an concentrate on something that is capable of giving immersion rather than only a tactic advantage.

Another reason of why we're asking to implement the OR native support is that it requires a couple of weeks of coder for a basic implementation (you should look at the SDK and at the simplicity of adding stereoscopic rendering and barrel distortion to the current layer; the fine tuning can be done with calm), so there's really no excuses to not do so, nor even: "we prefer to invest our time in something else...", because the time required is trivial.

[Simas 12]

NaturalPoint did something really great more than 10 years ago.. They gave a real headtracking solution for gamers. And then they locked the market and did some shady business (not to mention they didn't really improve their product, it's still infrared tech in the age of tiny precise/cheap accelerometers and gyroscopes... seriously, WTF).

Just read this and let me know if you are still interested in buying the next TrackIR.

I personally can't wait Oculus Rift consumer version to come out.

[progamer 14]

Adding oculus rift support will finally force Natural point to have to upgrade there product and stay competitive rather than trying to avoid competition through shady practices.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

Though I expect Natural Point to try and do everything in their power to to prevent Arma 3 from ever having oculus rift support, I just hope that the devs can see past what ever Natural Point offers them or claims they'll do.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Since its 1:1 movement ratio in a flight sim while dog fighting you may have some users throwing out there necks.;)Read a hands on report by the prodiucer of Rise Of Flight who gave it mixed reviews for this reason stating that it may cause many people to steer clear.For Arma3 IMO it will be awesome!

[Covert_Death 11]

, eyes has muscle if you noticed the closer you sit to monitor for long period of time your eye sight get worse same as reading books. with oculus rift your eyes will be demolished.

seriously? you again prove you know nothing about the human body! earlier you said it will give you cancer, that was dumb enough, but now you claim reading books is bad for your eyes??? the worst that will happen from reading a book is temporary eye strain if lighting conditions are bad, NO PERMANENT damage has ever been associated to reading a book. stop coming up with random thoughts and posting them as facts, you just look childish.

actually they do. Try going on a highway with a horse.

highways were no built for horses..... try driving your car on horse trails or horse parks... you COULD but people would be just as irritated with you as they would if you ride a hoarse on a highway... this is just stupid

OR is a great design and there is no point in you fighting its support, it doesn't hurt you in any way, if you don't have one its not like your monitor is going to start forcing you look at your monitor in OR mode with 2 separate stereo views... if you don't want it don't buy it and don't use it. for others, maybe we want 3d gameplay in a VR setup where we control our characters heads more realistically...

also, ChineseFood, if your so concerned about our health, since that seems to be most of what you try to prove the OR will do, try actually researching what could harm the human body... saying things like "Cancer" and "reading books will destroy your eyes" just has you making a fool of yourself.

[andersson 285]

Since its 1:1 movement ratio in a flight sim while dog fighting you may have some users throwing out there necks.;)Read a hands on report by the prodiucer of Rise Of Flight who gave it mixed reviews for this reason stating that it may cause many people to steer clear.For Arma3 IMO it will be awesome!

From simast link: "The founder and President of 777 Studios, known for developing WWI flight simulator Rise of Flight, happens to be a former NaturalPoint TrackIR Product Manager and is adamant to never support any means of head tracking besides TrackIR without NaturalPoint approval."

http://naturalpointofview.blogspot.se/p/naturalpoint-statements.html#Former_NaturalPoint_employee_makes_TrackIR_exclusive_game

[kremator 1064]

It's all sewn up. Sounds like really fishy practices here.

I hope it does not impact in ANY way on the rift - otherwise I will be very annoyed with BIS.

[progamer 14]

It's all sewn up. Sounds like really fishy practices here.

I hope it does not impact in ANY way on the rift - otherwise I will be very annoyed with BIS.

Looking into this situation shows that BIS has a dealings with natural point in the past but they added support for freetrack which shows they aren't locked in Naturalpoint's grip. Competition forces innovation and competitive prices, something head tracker seriously needs.

[Masharra 10]

Ordered my trackIR like two days ago. Youre gonna support some "evil" company no matter what you do may as well be them.

[Wolfstriked 11]

From simast link: "The founder and President of 777 Studios, known for developing WWI flight simulator Rise of Flight, happens to be a former NaturalPoint TrackIR Product Manager and is adamant to never support any means of head tracking besides TrackIR without NaturalPoint approval."

http://naturalpointofview.blogspot.se/p/naturalpoint-statements.html#Former_NaturalPoint_employee_makes_TrackIR_exclusive_game

Haha nice find there but thing is that he wants it to succeed and is pushing ROF and BOS towards having it implemented.Just try to look behind you while in your chair and then look up and then over to other side and I see his point.My neck was creaking from one try of it.HE said that the bad point of it will be with dogfight plane sims but everything will be amazing.

[Covert_Death 11]

Haha nice find there but thing is that he wants it to succeed and is pushing ROF and BOS towards having it implemented.Just try to look behind you while in your chair and then look up and then over to other side and I see his point.My neck was creaking from one try of it.HE said that the bad point of it will be with dogfight plane sims but everything will be amazing.

sure you may not be able to do a full 180, but is the OR not MORE realistic? in a flight sim, that is key to me. sure itd be nice to look through the back of my head from time to time, but i also sit in a swivel chair, so if need be its doable. point is, it ACCURATELY emulates the human head movement, even down to its flaws, like not being able to do a full 180.

[progamer 14]

sure you may not be able to do a full 180, but is the OR not MORE realistic? in a flight sim, that is key to me. sure itd be nice to look through the back of my head from time to time, but i also sit in a swivel chair, so if need be its doable. point is, it ACCURATELY emulates the human head movement, even down to its flaws, like not being able to do a full 180.

Why don't we include a slider for movement translation? if you don't like 1:1 then try 1:2 or somewhere above, in between or below.

[Harzach 2505]

sure you may not be able to do a full 180, but is the OR not MORE realistic? in a flight sim, that is key to me. sure itd be nice to look through the back of my head from time to time, but i also sit in a swivel chair, so if need be its doable. point is, it ACCURATELY emulates the human head movement, even down to its flaws, like not being able to do a full 180.

People seem to either forget or overlook that fact that you can configure each axis on the TIR independently and completely. When my nose is pointing at the edge of my screen, I am looking 90 degrees to that side. From there, I can push past to a hard limit of 135 degrees. Same for up and down, only it's more like 60/90 degrees. Or I could set it so that my viewpoint rotates 720 degrees for each degree I move my head.

As for the OR, who knows what will be possible? None of us here, that's for sure. Maybe it will far exceed everyone's wildest dreams. Maybe it will be an utter failure. At the very least, I'll be holding out for the equivalent of what I enjoy now - extremely high resolution displays and fully configurable head tracking.

Poo-pooing the OR because it doesn't currently meet certain technical or performance specs is silly. Sort of like complaining about problems with a game that is still in alpha.

[WalkerDown 1]

I still don't understand why we're discussing about that crap trackIR in the Oculus Rift thread. We're not asking the developers to invest 6 months of their time to develop a alien technology, we're asking to implement something in max 2 weeks with a single man working time that's not only useful, nice, fun and modern, but it also gives a push to the product for marketing purposes (free advertising, as anything else "touched" by the Oculus Rift today). This is really a no-brainer, there shouldn't be any discussion at all, it's like asking someone if he wants $1000 for free .... but I see ppl loves to complains about anything today. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

Depressing prediction: if & when Oculus Rift support does NOT appear - there will be accusations & suspicions of shady dealings with NaturalPoint.

---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

I still don't understand why we're discussing about that crap trackIR in the Oculus Rift thread. We're not asking the developers to invest 6 months of their time to develop a alien technology, we're asking to implement something in max 2 weeks with a single man working time that's not only useful, nice, fun and modern, but it also gives a push to the product for marketing purposes (free advertising, as anything else "touched" by the Oculus Rift today). This is really a no-brainer, there shouldn't be any discussion at all, it's like asking someone if he wants $1000 for free .... but I see ppl loves to complains about anything today. :)

We're discussing it because TrackIR is its natural competitor, already exists, and is successful in it's application, and is used by a great many people who have relevant experience in headtracking usage.

As for whether it's a no-brainer, simple, and provides free marketing etc, I guess that like other developments it either is, or is not, happening and BIS will only announce if & when there is anything to announce. My best guess is that there will be a decision made on a stable consumer release of Oculus Rift.

[tupolov 520]

Works already...?

[dmarkwick 261]

Works already...?

It looks (to me) like that's head tracking only, I didn't see any 3D in the scenery...?

[andersson 285]

I watched it and crossed my eyes and got something that looked like a 3D effect in the "third" picture that are created between the two original. So it looks like the 3D is working.

[WalkerDown 1]

We're discussing it because TrackIR is its natural competitor

Oculus Rift is more a competitor of your monitor than your head-tracking device. The fact that the TrackIR will die when the OR will emerges on the mass-market is not because they are competitors, but only because the OR offers the tracking capability as well... it's just a consequence. :)

My best guess is that there will be a decision made on a stable consumer release of Oculus Rift.

Arma3 is being developed now, the consumer version of the OR may comes after. The DEV kits serves exactly to this purpose: they gives to the developers the possibility to add the support the games being developed, so there's enough time for tests and adjustments while waiting for the consumers. More time you have to test, better will be the implementation, there's no reason to wait.

[dmarkwick 261]

Oculus Rift is more a competitor of your monitor than your head-tracking device. The fact that the TrackIR will die when the OR will emerges on the mass-market is not because they are competitors, but only because the OR offers the tracking capability as well... it's just a consequence. :)

Well, as usual there are several factors to consider as to whether TrackIR will disappear or not :) :

Price

bulk/weight

visibility (of keyboard/HOTAS etc)

resolution/fov etc

tracking abilities (eg OR is rotation-only at the moment, it needs to be 6DoF to really compete in that)

setup

features (proportional rot/tran etc)

other features (separation of eye on a per-eye basis for example, VERY important for ironsights & other collimated type sights)

...stuff like that. I'm not saying it won't be worth getting, I'll probably get one myself if certain of the above is implemented, but as to whether it makes TrackIR redundant - I'm not sure. There are reasons to prefer any one above the other.

Arma3 is being developed now, the consumer version of the OR may comes after. The DEV kits serves exactly to this purpose: they gives to the developers the possibility to add the support the games being developed, so there's enough time for tests and adjustments while waiting for the consumers. More time you have to test, better will be the implementation, there's no reason to wait.

True I suppose, my remark was only a casual guess :) If the company were to throw one BIS's way I'm sure they would play about with it... :)

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

I watched it and crossed my eyes and got something that looked like a 3D effect in the "third" picture that are created between the two original. So it looks like the 3D is working.

I saw some 3D-ishness with the HUD displays etc, just not the actual scenery.

[Covert_Death 11]

It looks (to me) like that's head tracking only, I didn't see any 3D in the scenery...?

it is not very extreme, and i think the landscape may not be 3d yet but the GUN is 3d. pause the video at any moment and compare the same object... the gun on the left eye is closer to the right edge and the gun on the left eye is slightly shifted to the left slightly, creating an overlap that will give it depth, the trees and rest of the scenery however i was not able to distinguish different placements....

each gun also had a "halo" effect around it, the left eye on the left side and the right eye on the right side, so i think he might have possibly modified the gun file and had two separate renders for each eye