Infantry Combat-Boring and Unrealistic?

docbrown · July 6, 2012

Im installing asr_ai, tpwcas, and all around defense. Any other recommendations (besides ACE)? Also, will these mods cause compatibility issues for missions not designed for them?

I'd also get @ASR (not to be confused with @ASR_AI) which automatically converts any vanilla missions to ACE.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?125329-ASR-Appendix

b00tsy · April 3, 2010

Mostly it's about how the mission and AI is setup, the vanilla AI is just fine. With missions that spawn standard AI groups with standard waypoints etc, you get standard AI response and that can get predictable as the OP described. It's in the hand of the missionmaker.

dmarkwick · March 19, 2006

For perspective, it's always possible to see individual examples of floundering AI, but when viewed in their totality, the AI act remarkably good. better than any other game I know definitely. And by game I don't mean scripted storyline sequences where the AI appear to act intelligently by moving to scripted loactions and maybe having branching scripts to cater for some amount of player input, I mean in an open freeform way where actual AI is required. Think bot.

When I play my DAC scenarios, I can always see some AI acting strangely. But then, in MP games I see the same thing with actual humans :) we should not forget that people do illogical things sometimes. If an AI refuses to heal another AI - try imagining that there is some human element going on. The medic cannot open his pouch for some reason. His equipment has a fault. Anything can happen IRL and the minor glitches of AI can most often be accounted for with a little imagination. AI not dropping to the floor quickly enough? Perhaps he is distracted, confused, inexperienced, terrified, unaware, or any number of other human traits.

On aggregate, the AI nearly always get me in the end anyway :) I can see individual examples of odd AI behavior, but on the whole the AI usually outmaneuver me and corner me somewhere.

THEBLITZ6794 · April 12, 2009

With these ai mods, I keep running into problems with the AI keeping up when no enemies are around. Theres also some moments when we need to disengage and make a break for it, which theyre incapable of doing

iceman77 · July 13, 2007

yeah the AI sucks. The irony is, it's the best, if not the only non-scripted AI in a game of this scale, or any scale for that matter. Unless ofcourse you can tell me of a comparable game, preferably of Arma scale & depth, where the ai aren't scripted.

Gunter Severloh · April 14, 2009

Sure ArmA2 AI isn't perfect and has its flaws, but most of the people complaining about unresponsive AI do have weak CPU.

I highly doubt that, I have weak single core cpu (Amd 64, 3400+), and i have no issues with Ai other then your typical Arma bugs.

Theres many factors that effect how AI respond in game in terms of performance.

With these ai mods, I keep running into problems with the AI keeping up when no enemies are around. Theres also some moments when we need to disengage and make
a break for it, which theyre incapable of doing

In this case it comes down to what commands you issue to them.

-You can tell them ~,1,1 and return to formation

-tell them to disengage, hold fire, and the become aware (no danger which is 7,2)

-point and click with space bar to give them a position to go to

-open you map and hit ~ and then click on a map position you want them to go to

What do you normally do? Just start running,a nd hope the AI keeps up with you? As they are by default in

formation on you in wedge unless a new order is given.

ProfTournesol · January 29, 2005

I highly doubt that, I have weak single core cpu (Amd 64, 3400+), and i have no issues with Ai other then your typical Arma bugs.
Theres many factors that effect how AI respond in game in terms of performance.

Of course many factors affect AI in game, but the AI is handled by the CPU. While updating my CPU i saw a major improvement in AI behaviour, even in OFP on a lesser extent. Of course if you only put 50 AI on the map you won't notice it.

Tonci87 · July 7, 2009

Of course many factors affect AI in game, but the AI is handled by the CPU. While updating my CPU i saw a major improvement in AI behaviour, even in OFP on a lesser extent. Of course if you only put 50 AI on the map you won't notice it.

This

Updating my CPU made the AI better. Especially in missions with multiple scripts running, or in combination with ACE and other mods

eggbeast · August 31, 2009

did nobody mention skill yet?

the skill of the AI massively affects their tactics

unfortunately, you cannot just use

this setskill 1

or set it as such in a server profile (as we do - see below skillenemy setting)

as this now makes their precision absolutely lethal (jogging away from you and headshotting you at 400m with a pkm) - although this may have beenfixed - never tested it since we all kicked off when the precisionenemy setting was merged with skillenemy.

we used to play precision 0.2 skill 1.0 and this made enemies flank, climb buildings, use windows and doors, nades, smoke etc - awesome stuff

the compromise is about 0.5 but no higher than 0.7 or aimbot time

if you play on recruit setting your skill will be real low so AI will act dumb.

our profile (we play on regular but tweaked) is

class Difficulties
{
class Recruit
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.2;
};
class Regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.5;
};
class Veteran
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.69999999;
};
class Mercenary
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=0;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=1;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonID=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=1;
};
};
shadingQuality=7;
shadowQuality=3;
singleVoice=0;
maxSamplesPlayed=32;
activeKeys[]=
{
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty1",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty2",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty3",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty4",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty5"
};
sceneComplexity=300000;
viewDistance=1600;
terrainGrid=10;
volumeCD=6.5;
volumeFX=6.5;
volumeSpeech=6.5;
volumeVoN=6.5;
vonRecThreshold=0.029999999;

iceman77 · July 13, 2007

Hey egg. Since you bring up skills. I like to use some random values. You think it's a bad idea?

{_x setSkill ["aimingAccuracy",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["aimingShake",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["aimingSpeed",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["endurance",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["spotDistance",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["spotTime",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["courage",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["reloadSpeed",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["commanding",random 1]} forEach allUnits;
{_x setSkill ["general",random 1]} forEach allUnits;

Hillsbills · April 22, 2012

I was thinking of this post yesterday while being chased halfway across the AO, bullets and shells impacting all around me. It was tough to play an laugh about it at the same time. If it's boring work on changing some settings.

eggbeast · August 31, 2009

yeah tonight we got overrun by enemy infantry flanking, coming from rear, several tanks and APC's swarmed us and circling chopper gunners kept nailing us cowering behind our walls... it was mayhem with both sides (AI and human) chucking nades over walls at point blank range... we prevailed but a few players nearly rage quit... definitely not boring lol.

Intense nightfight

EvblsNS5JOs

Edited January 12, 2013 by eggbeast

meade95 · September 4, 2003

did nobody mention skill yet?

the skill of the AI massively affects their tactics

unfortunately, you cannot just use

this setskill 1

or set it as such in a server profile (as we do - see below skillenemy setting)

as this now makes their precision absolutely lethal (jogging away from you and headshotting you at 400m with a pkm) - although this may have beenfixed - never tested it since we all kicked off when the precisionenemy setting was merged with skillenemy.

we used to play precision 0.2 skill 1.0 and this made enemies flank, climb buildings, use windows and doors, nades, smoke etc - awesome stuff

the compromise is about 0.5 but no higher than 0.7 or aimbot time

if you play on recruit setting your skill will be real low so AI will act dumb.

our profile (we play on regular but tweaked) is

class Difficulties
{
class Recruit
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.2;
};
class Regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.5;
};
class Veteran
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.69999999;
};
class Mercenary
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=0;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=1;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonID=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=1;
};
};
shadingQuality=7;
shadowQuality=3;
singleVoice=0;
maxSamplesPlayed=32;
activeKeys[]=
{
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty1",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty2",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty3",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty4",
"BIS_IAmBeingNaughty5"
};
sceneComplexity=300000;
viewDistance=1600;
terrainGrid=10;
volumeCD=6.5;
volumeFX=6.5;
volumeSpeech=6.5;
volumeVoN=6.5;
vonRecThreshold=0.029999999;

A Mod by JED_ESS allows one to do exaclty this. Tweak all variables for enemy units (individually) and keep their preceision low...while their intelligence higher. Can't find link at the moment. But it is a great mod. I like it is some ways better / easier than ASR_AI mod.....

chrisb · June 16, 2012

A Mod by JED_ESS allows one to do exaclty this. Tweak all variables for enemy units (individually) and keep their preceision low...while their intelligence higher. Can't find link at the moment. But it is a great mod. I like it is some ways better / easier than ASR_AI mod.....

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=16213&highlight=ENHANCED%2BSKILL%2BSLIDER

I think..:)

rye1 · January 2, 2010

OP you have got some misconceptions on realistic. Depends on the force at hand and some typical combat drills, how can you teach that to AI? Even players can't do them that well half the time! Plus some standard "reaction to contact" and "basic survivability drills" contemplate the way the AI handles initial contact.

roguetrooper · December 19, 2007

What is most annoying (will probably never be fixed since it's an issue since at least 2006):

* AI infantry shoots with bazooka at infantry (even single soldiers)

* AI fumbles around with pistols although they have rifles with enough ammo

* AI shoots a whole magazine within two seconds at a single infantry man (i.e. it never uses single fire mode)

Sirex1 · November 4, 2009

Am I the only one who find infantry combat in vanilla arma 2 (and OFP and aa1) to be pretty bland, predictable, and unrealistic?
Ive found most/all infantry fights to go like this:

The two sides approach each other either in a line or wedge (this is unrealistic, as any patrol would have a loose formation. Probably something like a box)

Everybody immediately goes prone and a few guys start shooting, while many just look around and do nothing.

One or both sides start crawling to each other through open terrain, with no flanking, support fire, bounding tactics, or even cover usage.

Notably, the ai really sucks. Thats probably the biggest crux. But theres some things which are just odd. The formations are one. Theres no good formation for covering a large area on a simple patrol. The formations feel like a civil war game or a ww1 trench assault. The gameplay is also very unfluid (is that a word?). This is most notable in close quarters. Theres also a very distinct lack of cover. This makes defense placement hard on a somewhat side note, somewhat related note. Foxholes are badly needed.

To conclude

1. Am I the only who notices this?

2. Are there any mods which /fix/ this.

3. Any other thoughts?

Sounds like someone skipped National service, or are you American/Brittish?

Line or what in arma 2 is called staggered column are most common formations depending on expection where the enemy is and where friendly units are. No need for staggered column if you got friendly gruops on both your sides.

Go prone and start shooting is a valid response if you are on after hand in the engagement. If you set the AI to combat i find that they try bounding technique ( nothing beneath battalion size is called tactic, it is called combat technique on low level ). Flanking when only having one squad after the engagement has started i would say would be tricky, that's why you have platoons and companies. What do you mean by support fire? Any fire that kills an enemy shooter is supportive, any fire that doesn't is not supporting.

I will agree that there is a lack of natural stones in the forrest and small ditches that exist in real life.

SavageCDN · October 6, 2011

With these ai mods, I keep running into problems with the AI keeping up when no enemies are around. Theres also some moments when we need to disengage and make a break for it, which theyre incapable of doing

Yeah that can be frustrating.. here's what you can try:

Pop smoke or find a way to block LOS of enemy incoming fire

Set your squad to Diamond (Delta) formation

If there are no enemies around set them to Safe and they will move better.

Tonci87 · July 7, 2009

Yeah that can be frustrating.. here's what you can try:
Pop smoke or find a way to block LOS of enemy incoming fire

Set your squad to Diamond (Delta) formation

If there are no enemies around set them to Safe and they will move better.

Making them disengage works quite well

Give them a waypoint and set everyone to hold fire

CameronMcDonald · October 10, 2005

Definitely give them a move order, and they should pick up and move ASAP, ignoring cover for the most part.

soldia · November 5, 2012

The AI with latest beta and mods is really good. As mentioned above: The ArmA AI is really an AI..not scripted bots.

@tonci: Your video shows one of the few failures in the AI concept IMO. If you tell them to hold fire they sometimes won't hear and start shooting at their own will. That was the death sentence to me and my squad in more than one Mission. They are not really able to be stealthy.

I tried to "disengage", "hold fire", "stealth" and so on. But anybody in the group will start shooting anyway.

Tonci87 · July 7, 2009

The AI with latest beta and mods is really good. As mentioned above: The ArmA AI is really an AI..not scripted bots.
@tonci: Your video shows one of the few failures in the AI concept IMO. If you tell them to hold fire they sometimes won't hear and start shooting at their own will. That was the death sentence to me and my squad in more than one Mission. They are not really able to be stealthy.

I tried to "disengage", "hold fire", "stealth" and so on. But anybody in the group will start shooting anyway.

YEAH that really sucks! And Imho BIS needs to fix that.

AS far as I know AI will ignore the "hold fire" command if they think that the enemy has seen them, or if the enemy is a big threat (e.g. getting to close). Unfortunately you canÂ´t what is going through their mind when they start shooting. Why for example didnÂ´t they start to shoot in this situation?

jakerod · July 29, 2002

YEAH that really sucks! And Imho BIS needs to fix that.
AS far as I know AI will ignore the "hold fire" command if they think that the enemy has seen them, or if the enemy is a big threat (e.g. getting to close). Unfortunately you canÂ´t what is going through their mind when they start shooting. Why for example didnÂ´t they start to shoot in this situation?

The AI break the Hold Fire command when the are detected by the enemy and only then. It is difficult to notice this because they do so immediately before the enemy even has a chance to fire. Essentially, the friendly AI notices that he has been detected right before or immediately after the enemy AI detects him. This makes it look like the friendly AI has gone rouge but in fact he was just trying to save his own life. In the situation above, the enemy never saw you (Somehow) and that is why they kept walking and why your men never fired on them until you did.

soldia · November 5, 2012

That might be the explanation of it. But I agree with tonci that it has to be fixed (if not in ArmA 2, then in ArmA 3). Because that behavior ruins most of sneaky actions and guarantees a lot of deaths.

They should be more loyal ;)

domokun · September 21, 2006

More loyal!? No mate, more disciplined. That's what the military is all about, discipline. Forget the honour, the glory, it's all about discipline.

Infantry Combat-Boring and Unrealistic?

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