Sa-80 still jams

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 05 2002,06:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think they will like being dependent on a foreign manufacturer...and I can't see H&K giving out the license...<span id='postcolor'>

That is pure pride. You see, HK was founded in Germany but the a great part (I think the greatest) of the production facilities and R&D department are in the US. They actually would rather support the US economy than Germany's.

Furthermore would a certain uniformity of the guns used by the UNO simplify many logistics and definetly cut costs of that gun by 20-30%

Dont we all want one thing for our comfort!

EASY CLEANING

<span id='postcolor'>

H&K doesn't have production facilities in the US, only a sales and service operation in Virginia. H&K currently has British owners, but is in the process of being bought by a group of German investors.

Footage that I saw of SAS troopers in Afghanistan showed them carrying M16 rifles (20" barrels, not short carbines).

That Maadi is topped with a red-dot sight, not a laser.

[Sadico 1]

Yep, i think it's a 3,5x sight and a red dot sight. Other models have only a 1,5x sight (the one in ofp, i think).

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Britsh Aerospace owns it for more than 10 years now but has to get rid of it. They did negotiations with Colt but they dont want them.

Still, I am pretty much sure to have heard that they not only produce in Germany but also in the US!

[billytran 0]

SA-80: Ugly, unreliable moneypit. They keep throwing more money into this project and it still jams. The SAS don't even use it, they prefer the M-16.

Steyr AUG: It's got a bad stock design. Bullpups are alright for close combat, but for a battlefield rifle, it's no good.

M-16: It's very accurate, but has some reliability problems.

G-36: It's a very nice rifle. You've got awesome reliability, but the accuracy isn't as good as the M-16. Add to that the really expensive cost, and it's not looking so great anymore.

OICW: Yeah right. First of all it weighs about 20 lbs. Its scope runs on batteries, and when you run out of power there are no iron sights. The barrel is 11.5 inches, do you know what that does? Noise and muzzle flash go up and accuracy takes a nose dive. Then you've got a grenade launcher that is really no more useful than the existing 40mm launchers on other rifles. Add to that a cost of about ten G-36's, and this thing is worthless.

So... what we need is a lightweight, accurate, reliable rifle for not too high of a price. That gives us the......

Sig 550!

It's got Sig accuracy and reliability, and its cheaper than the G-36.

[FetishFool 0]

The Sig 550 is another beautiful rifle.

But SigSauer doesn't export rifles because Switzerland has laws against exporting weapons.

Sig Arms is the international Sig Sauer, but they only manufacture civ-spec versions of the military weapons.

And if another country starts using Switzerland's weapons, it might offend the Swiss.

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> but the accuracy isn't as good as the M-16. <span id='postcolor'>

I doubt that very much. Also it's not that expensive.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Yeah the Siwss!

Whatever is small and they produce it, they succeed. But if something gets the size of a plane. Too big for such a small country to deal with, they fuck it up. Good watches, good arms, good jewlery, good wine, but screwed up airlines, crashed planes, bruning tunnels..

[Mister Frag 0]

billytran, I've never heard of complaints regarding the G36's accuracy. The barrel length is comparable, and the twist rate identical, to the latest M16 family rifles. The trademark H&K polygonal rifling is also used on the G36, giving it greater bullet velocity and improved accuracy.

The 20mm grenade launcher of the OICW is far more useful than a simple M-203 or M-79. The explosive used in the new grenades is more powerful, and outperforms the 40mm grenades. Because of their reduced size and weight, about three times as many grenades can be carried. The new grenades are also individually programmable by the OICW for detonation at a pre-determined distance to engage targets in foxholes.

[Shrikey 0]

but his point about the Batteries is right thought. what is a trooper supposed to do if he suddenly runs out ?

[Sadico 1]

I think the OICW will be great for situations were you are never short of supplies and can repair the gun easily if the computer fails or something, but i can't imagine that thing working after 2 weeks in Vietnam. Also if the computer fails, what is the guy supposed to do? throw the grenade launcher and computer away and fight with a g36k with iron sights and without buttstock?

[FetishFool 0]

OICW doesn't have the G36K in it.

The rifle part is only based on the G36.  Most of it was designed by Americans and not Germans, so that might explain all the questionable components.  

The OICW is also still chambered for the 5.56N round.  The new 6mm round will be adopted by next year.

The entire OICW system seems so stupid.  But only the US army will be using it, so ha

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

I guess I'm the only moron who loves the sexyness of guns such as the M16A2 + M203 grenade launcher and the oh so incredibly sexy M79 to be the deciding matter.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ July 05 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the OICW will be great for situations were you are never short of supplies and can repair the gun easily if the computer fails or something, but i can't imagine that thing working after 2 weeks in Vietnam. Also if the computer fails, what is the guy supposed to do?<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly my thoughts too. In the field I would much rather have good ole' AK-47 then the OICW. I would not today or in any recent future trust my life with any gun that relies on computers and electronics.

[Sadico 1]

It is a g36k

Quote from HKpro http://www.hkpro.com/oicw.htm

Very basically, the U.S. military wanted a weapon system that mates a conventional rifle with a 20mm "cannon" that is capable of delivering a special munition that can be user set to explode with an airburst at user determined and programmable ranges.  What looks like an M16 underneath should give you pause to look closer.  It is a variant of the HK G36K, with an M16 magazine adapter!  This is something that HK promises for the conventional G36 series as well.  The selector switch and the flash hider are the G36K variant giveaway.

Residuum: Nah, you aren't the only one who likes the m16/203 a lot, but i like the AG36 better

[billytran 0]

I'm sure they could make some sort of arrangement to have Sig 550's manufactured for the US Military. I think Sig has a manufacturing plant in America where they could make them.

The OICW's grenade launcher would be useful if it didn't have the rifle mated to it. If you made it small and lightweight it would be pretty good. The problem comes when you're trying to make one rifle do everything.

[FetishFool 0]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm

Kinetic Energy (KE) module, which is, in fact, modified Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle

That looks like a HEAVILY modified G36(K).

I'd say that it was built from the ground up, but with the G36 in mind.

The HKPro OICW page leads to a picture of a SOCOM??

[Sadico 1]

Yeah, they seem to have some problem with the images in the OICW page... I've seen a image of lots of mp5's there too

[FetishFool 0]

Oh and lol, notice that they used the word "clip" in the picture? Coming from the experts, eh. Ha.

[Guest]

I agree with FetishFool. I would say that the OICW has very little to do with the G36. I have dismantled a G36 and it looks nothing like the KE module of the OICW, if I remember it correctly.

Perhaps Satchel or sombody else that has served in the German army can shed some light on it.

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

You all have forgotten the Rk:

[InRange 1]

What about the standard weapon of the Dutch Armed forces?

The Diemaco C7.

Basically a modified M16 A2 with optics. The optics are known to break off under harsh conditions though...

[Sadico 1]

Naah, the G36 rules!!

The spanish army tested Diemaco C-7, FN FNC, IMI Galil, HK G36E, Sig Sg-550 and Steyr AUG. Only the G36 and the sg-550 met the requirements, and they finaly decided to buy the G36.

[ran 0]

Made by me , concept guns , design

[Mister Frag 0]

Don't get me wrong, I love the G36 and own several H&K products myself, but anyone who understands how governments work knows that ultimately, the decisions are being made by politicians.

I think the rifles used by the Spanish army are now being made there under license, and that concession (and possibly some other favors to the politicians holding the purse strings) undoubtedly influenced the decision.

[ran 0]

i litteraly massacred some of them

these are made from pics from various sources around the net , you'll can recognize some parts from different weapons

i have to admit that some of the original pictures (the base to the new ones) are from bis