Improved and simplified Mission Editor?

[WhiteArcticFox 1]

( I'm tired as I am writing this so I'm fairly certain there'll be lack of punctuation or sentences that don't seem to make much sense, just writing this down so I don't forget the next day as I often think about making this thread on these forums as I have been thinking of posting it for about 2 weeks now but keep forgetting it when I go to sleep )

A simple question, is there any word on what the mission editor will look like or whether it'll be improved and simplified for A3?

Don't get me wrong, I know my ways around the mission editor in ArmA and I can use it fairly easily, but I'm wondering if it's going to be improved and simplified in A3 as I think it's truly a hassle in A2 to make a simple mission, often I find myself having opened 8 documents, 20 tabs on the internet, have hundreds of triggers, waypoints, game logic blurring the editor when I make a fairly simple mission in A2 and maybe if I want to get back to a mission I made a couple of months ago and tweak it a bit I find myself trying to search for the right trigger, find the right unit etc. ( maybe it's because I'm a bit unorganized in making the missions but still )

I know most of you have been using the mission editor since back in OFP days so I can understand if you don't want any major changes to the mission editor but something like an in-game Ext. file creator, document editor, 3D mission editor so you don't have to worry about something like if a soldier was put on the roof of a building or in the second floor of it or in the basement until you click Preview to check it out and then go back to tweak some codes to bring the unit to the right altitude or if an empty aircraft clips the wing of another empty aircraft etc. etc.

Bottom line is : Something like a 3D Editor ( Optional for personal preferences ), in-game Document Editor and File Creator would make mission editing much simpler to work with, also something like already built in respawn mechanism, respawn location marker, revive mechanism, in-game note editor / task creator, artillery radio and placement easier, playable AI enabled / disabled pre-fix etc. etc. etc. would be very handy

Thoughts?

Edited December 24, 2012 by WhiteArcticFox

[khaki 10]

To literally answer your question in one fell swoop http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119512-Arma-3-Confirmed-features-info-amp-discussion

[Kristian 47]

Making a simple mission is a mess? Define a simple mission.

For me, a simple mission is either attacking or defending one objective/ area. Thats it. Adding endings, cutscenes, conditions, evacs, insertions... Those things make the mission advanced, and advanced missions

can be a hassle if you don't know what you're doing all the time. (But you clearly said you know your way so don't get me wrong).

I have made a mission with insertion (including cutscene), few simple objectives, cutscene after completing them, and evactuation which ends the mission (with cutscene), it has custom music and radio chatter, and I wouldn't say its a mess. I don't want BIS to simplify the editor not one bit. They can add options, sure. So for example changing units gear wouldn't be spam of "Removeallweapons this; This addweapon "BIS_nope.mp3"; This add that and that and that... Drop Down menu for primary and seconary weapons, backbag and secondary "primary" weapon (launcher or another rifle). Also drop down menu for choosing unit's equipment such as helmet and that would be nice, but I think this has already been confirmed, iirc.

[chrisb 196]

I love the ‘Editor’ as it is, if they made it more complicated I wouldn’t mind, I live in there most of the time...:p

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

I'm with you Chris, but it could have more functionality features like the one Im pushing for in my sig.

Editor I think needs an upgrade, yes simpler is best, but it can be done in a way that works for everyone, beginners and advanced alike.

[dmarkwick 261]

The editor should be simple to use in basic principle, but have complexity also, so the more you delve into it, the more control, complexity and flexibility you find. Can be achieved with tabs (first tab = basic functionality with behind tabs having the complexity), pop-up windows, or "Advanced" buttons etc.

[neokika 62]

Bottom line is : Something like a 3D Editor ( Optional for personal preferences ), in-game Document Editor and File Creator would make mission editing much simpler to work with, also something like already built in respawn mechanism, respawn location marker, revive mechanism, in-game note editor / task creator, artillery radio and placement easier, playable AI enabled / disabled pre-fix etc. etc. etc. would be very handy

Well, making the editor more simple to use doesn't go very well with it being improved at all. You can't improve something by removing features can you?

In-game document editor? Would you prefer that to a whole range of free and awesome tools available in the windows environment such as notepad++ etc?

Respawn locations are already set within the editor if you want > you just create a marker named like "respawn_west".

About the 3D editor and object placement, this is something not related to the current editor at all.

Something cool Ivan said in an interview was that there may be editor layers for Arma 3, this would definitely be an improvement.

often I find myself having opened 8 documents, 20 tabs on the internet, have hundreds of triggers, waypoints, game logic blurring the editor when I make a fairly simple mission in A2 and maybe if I want to get back to a mission I made a couple of months ago and tweak it a bit I find myself trying to search for the right trigger, find the right unit etc. ( maybe it's because I'm a bit unorganized in making the missions but still )

Yep, being more organized is probably the answer.

Edited December 24, 2012 by neokika

[metalcraze 290]

I hope it will be anything but simplified. Improved yes. With more tools so you won't have to constantly alt+tab into stuff like LEA and Notepad++. The script reference for every unit/weapon will also be great (stating its class name and which magazine class names the weapon needs for example - I think VBS2 already has this)

An editor isn't something you can 'simplify' without making it a useless gimmick (like in OFPDR). The more stuff you put into it, the more buttons and windows it will have.

Edited December 24, 2012 by metalcraze

[EDcase 87]

I hope that all parameters are editable WITHIN the editor itself.

For example the modules need their own window of parameters that can be changed rather tha editing a script file. :j:

[wipman 1]

Hi, for me a good 3D editor will be an improvement, to be able to place AI units inside buildings with accuracy on balconys, rooms or corridors; linked between 'em or not, to have something specific for the coverage of a building, like for example a sniper shooting by a door from inside the middle of a room, while his spotter sing the targets for him/her closer to a window, another one (a grenadier i.e.) covers the back window and other two cover the room's door, one from inside and other from outside it. With waypoints and orders GR style while indoors or arround their perimeter... and other waypoints/orders system for the open field combat.

Be able to see through the roofs and ceilings of a building when you gonna place a unit inside, UFO: Enemy Unknown style; but things like be able to write briefings or just data on the notebook aside of objectives from inside the editor, would be a very big improvement, as it'll be to be able to look for external files like objectives pictures.

Click on a text line on the notebook, drag the cursor above it, select the text that we want and then.. Right Click to open up a menu with what we could do with that selected text line; like transform it into a link to an objective... an external picture or whatever.

A visual 3D armory to choose the gear that we have available for the playable units, with a part for the taken weapons during the SP missions of the campaign, also a section for our combat backpack, where we choose what to carry for the mission, as backup uniform and ammo, a guillie suit or parts of it or parts of armor... tools that we may need... food and drinks to recover our stamine... . This things will be an improvement of the 3D editor and gear menu IMO. Let's C ya

[WhiteArcticFox 1]

Well, making the editor more simple to use doesn't go very well with it being improved at all. You can't improve something by removing features can you?

In-game document editor? Would you prefer that to a whole range of free and awesome tools available in the windows environment such as notepad++ etc?

You got me wrong mate, I'm not for removing features, not at all, I'm merely talking about adding features to make the editor easier to use, wipman explains it perfectly.

Hi, for me a good 3D editor will be an improvement, to be able to place AI units inside buildings with accuracy on balconys, rooms or corridors; linked between 'em or not, to have something specific for the coverage of a building, like for example a sniper shooting by a door from inside the middle of a room, while his spotter sing the targets for him/her closer to a window, another one (a grenadier i.e.) covers the back window and other two cover the room's door, one from inside and other from outside it. With waypoints and orders GR style while indoors or arround their perimeter... and other waypoints/orders system for the open field combat.

Be able to see through the roofs and ceilings of a building when you gonna place a unit inside, UFO: Enemy Unknown style; but things like be able to write briefings or just data on the notebook aside of objectives from inside the editor, would be a very big improvement, as it'll be to be able to look for external files like objectives pictures.

Click on a text line on the notebook, drag the cursor above it, select the text that we want and then.. Right Click to open up a menu with what we could do with that selected text line; like transform it into a link to an objective... an external picture or whatever.

A visual 3D armory to choose the gear that we have available for the playable units, with a part for the taken weapons during the SP missions of the campaign, also a section for our combat backpack, where we choose what to carry for the mission, as backup uniform and ammo, a guillie suit or parts of it or parts of armor... tools that we may need... food and drinks to recover our stamine... . This things will be an improvement of the 3D editor and gear menu IMO. Let's C ya

In-Game document / file editor is so that you don't always have to minimize the game and go to the mission foldier, find the document, search about on it for the right line to edit. Just an idea to make the editor more streamlined.

[blackmamb 2]

The one thing I think the editor could use is the ability to edit multiple units at once. E.g you want to make twenty units playable, you need to edit each one of them, when simply selecting them and setting them as playable would be a lot easier. Same if you want to add the same init line to several units, or change the formation of 12 groups or whatever. Currently it's almost easier to edit the mission.sqm to do so.

But I could live without that.

[gossamersolid 155]

Ingame class list would be fantastic as well.

So like the Six network class list, but without the need to alt-tab.

[dragon01 902]

I support this. Right now, learning the editor pretty much amounts to learning a new programming language from scratch. Aside from the simplest missions from template, there's no way to even change weapons or place a unit on a rooftop without using scripting. If they could add a drop-down menu with the most frequently used commands, this would benefit both advanced and beginner mission makers. Also, 3D editor and a GUI equipment screen would go a long way to simplify mission creation process.

[dakkafex 1]

just intergrate the vbs2 3d editor and ill jizz my pants

[PlacidPaul 11]

You can't improve something by removing features can you?

I hope they don't remove features, but I think they can make things more simplified. The more user interface that represents code (like syncing) the better. Don't laugh, but the 3d editor from little big planet by media molecule has some great examples of this.

Something that they do is color coding objects into groups or arrays. This is something i think would help the low level editor (without colors) A user interface that groups objects. Click on the interface group name of your choice and highlight all the units. This is something from ....:j: Dragon Rising editor that i really liked. You could group entire OPFOR side, subcatagories of areas, and subcatagories within thoughs areas, within User Interface. Then reference them in script.

Also, make in editor object-sets with User Interface. Basically, put any object into sets including triggers and waypoints, this doesn't spawn from beginning, but spawns whenever you want. I guess it would be like some kind of sub sqm or it creates sqf from within editor, i don't know. This would help many beginners.

Beginners should make simple missions, but don't, maybe the editor should focus on what it takes for a complete mission created simply. Objectives and Briefings are probably the farthest behind section in the editor for beginners.

I really have no complaints with the editor, I think it's awesome. If there's something you think it can't do, just search more. I probably does.

When BIS acknowledges trying to make things "simpler", I don't think this should raise any alarm for the old editor veterans, it shouldn't need to become limited.

[andersson 285]

I wouldnt mind layers. Layers for units, triggers and so on. Define your own layers. Lock them, hide them. Would make it more tidy.

[nodunit 397]

Layers definately. When I think of editors nowadays it always comes back to sandbox 2, very simple to use yet so very complex if you wish to make it so. Granted SB2 is essentially mission editor+Visitor but seriously, if you haven't peaked at it yet you really should.

Areas are divided into tabs, with expandable and collapseable library's, layers, show and hide functions and more. To the basic user there are some tabs that you would wind up not using, of course the 3D aspect helps TREMENDOUSLY, you can't compare a 2D top down guessing game wherein the space between objects varies based on zoom levels as opposed to seeing a projection of the object in question in relation to another object in real time.

[iceman77 18]

The mission editor itself is anything but complicated. It's pretty straight forward. Mr. Murrays editing guide covers all of the editor features and makes using the editor a breeze for those who may not understand the editor. In any case, even without the guide, everything should be self explanitory. There's even tool tips for code, you can press F1 while a tooltip is floating and see a entire description & example of said code. I don't understand.. which part of the editor is confusing?

I think you mean scripting in general and not the actual editor... If anything, BIS needs to add more features into the editor. No refining of simpliying needed. Go use the editor for a month or two instead of for 5 minutes before asking BIS to simlify the editor.Just saying, anyone who has honestly spent a legit amount of time in the editor wouldn't find the editor as complicated, or needing to be simplified. Hell... it's just the base/starting point for editing missions... it's not complex :cool:

[andersson 285]

I agree the editor isnt complicated, but making missions is.

I been stuck in the editor since 2001.

[WhiteArcticFox 1]

The mission editor itself is anything but complicated. It's pretty straight forward. Mr. Murrays editing guide covers all of the editor features and makes using the editor a breeze for those who may not understand the editor. In any case, even without the guide, everything should be self explanitory. There's even tool tips for code, you can press F1 while a tooltip is floating and see a entire description & example of said code. I don't understand.. which part of the editor is confusing?

I think you mean scripting in general and not the actual editor... If anything, BIS needs to add more features into the editor. No refining of simpliying needed. Go use the editor for a month or two instead of for 5 minutes before asking BIS to simlify the editor.Just saying, anyone who has honestly spent a legit amount of time in the editor wouldn't find the editor as complicated, or needing to be simplified. Hell... it's just the base/starting point for editing missions... it's not complex :cool:

Did I say the editor itself was complex? No, I figured out mostly everything the day I got into the editor of Arma, as of now I'm working on a mission which I've been working on the past week and still isn't nearly finished.

Say, did you read what I wrote?

[instagoat 133]

Uh, I don´t know if this was mentioned in the confirmed features thread, (I am pretty sure) but there will neither be an updated 3D editor (the alt-E or whatever will stay, however.) nor a massively overhauled 2D editor. However, the 2D editor will receive game specific improvements and polish. Things mentioned by devs on social feeds and at GC were ingame classname displays, in-editor briefing builder (instead of outboard html coding as is done now.) as well as some other features. I am probably not remembering this correctly, but did somebody mention a native debugging tool and ingame script editor somewhere too?

A 3D editor would be superb, but unfortunately, we wont get it. However, I think the 2D editor is at the heart of Arma, and any improvement to it would be very welcome. We will likely see how it´ll work once the alpha rolls around, if it does ever. I sure hope it does, though. That said, by now I have to admit I am getting a little disheartened and angry at the whole situation that´s developed in the past four ish months.

[iceman77 18]

Did I say the editor itself was complex? No, I figured out mostly everything the day I got into the editor of Arma, as of now I'm working on a mission which I've been working on the past week and still isn't nearly finished.

Say, did you read what I wrote?

...is there any word on what the mission editor will look like or whether it'll be improved and simplified for A3?

Yeah I read it.I'm just wondering why it needs to be "simplified". You said yourself "it's truly a hassle in A2 to make a simple mission". So in turn, in short, I basically said to get more familiar with the editor so it's not such a "hassle" for you. I even stated that you probaly meant the scripting side (ie; scripting, navigating directories etc) and not the editor itself was complicated. Did you read that part? Maybe organize better if it's such a tremendous hassle to navigate directories/files? Idk...

As far as improving the mission editor by adding more functionality I'm all for it.Sorry for any mis-understanding.

[Tonci87 163]

Uh, I don´t know if this was mentioned in the confirmed features thread, (I am pretty sure) but there will neither be an updated 3D editor (the alt-E or whatever will stay, however.) nor a massively overhauled 2D editor. However, the 2D editor will receive game specific improvements and polish. Things mentioned by devs on social feeds and at GC were ingame classname displays, in-editor briefing builder (instead of outboard html coding as is done now.) as well as some other features. I am probably not remembering this correctly, but did somebody mention a native debugging tool and ingame script editor somewhere too?

A 3D editor would be superb, but unfortunately, we wont get it. However, I think the 2D editor is at the heart of Arma, and any improvement to it would be very welcome. We will likely see how it´ll work once the alpha rolls around, if it does ever. I sure hope it does, though. That said, by now I have to admit I am getting a little disheartened and angry at the whole situation that´s developed in the past four ish months.

Well who knows?

The devs said that they won´t include the 3D Editor because of lack of tme. Now that A3 was postponed....

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

Did I mention the ticket I have for adding the feature/function which is to make all highlighted units/groups playable at once versus

what we have now which is you have to edit each unit be it a single unit, or a individual units in a group.

How can we add to this function when you highlight, like what else would you want to be able to do when you highlight individual or groups,

other then making them all just playable?