Euro is turning people into nazi's :)

[InRange 1]

I didn't think it was tasteless. Some Hitler perodies are actually funny. Take 'Mr. Hilter' in Monthy Python's Flying Circus. Now that was funny. 'Vote Hilter for a better Meinhead'

On a different note, I think Britain is better off with the Pound Sterling. The Euro sucks ass. I wish Holland never participated in it. Everything's a lot more expensive.

[MrLaggy 0]

I haven't seen the ad in question, but considering how quickly that many pro-Euros jump to call their opponents Hitler-like when they're elected, their complaints seem pretty hypocritical to me.

Also apt: I wouldn't be at all surprised if once the lefties have created their Union of European Socialist Republics it's rapidly taken over by racist neo-Nazis. You'd think they'd have learnt that lesson by now.

Fortunately the Euro probably won't survive the first major European recession, and the dreams of a UESR will go with it.

[Heckler 0]

This not a new thing, heck Mel Brooks was doing Spring Time for Hitler about thirty years ago in the Producers.

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also apt: I wouldn't be at all surprised if once the lefties have created their Union of European Socialist Republics it's rapidly taken over by racist neo-Nazis. You'd think they'd have learnt that lesson by now.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ugh? What the fuck are you saying? Most european governments are right wing now. Do you think Belusconi, Chirac and Aznar (to name a few) are "lefties"? And what the hell is that crap of Union of European Socialist Republics? Are you smoking crack??

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @ July 04 2002,19:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I didn't think it was tasteless. Some Hitler perodies are actually funny. Take 'Mr. Hilter' in Monthy Python's Flying Circus. Now that was funny. 'Vote Hilter for a better Meinhead'

On a different note, I think Britain is better off with the Pound Sterling. The Euro sucks ass. I wish Holland never participated in it. Everything's a lot more expensive.<span id='postcolor'>

why do you say that? Of course you hear all that consumer gossip of which only 10% might be true. Of course the media abuse this topic cause nothing is better than to create uncertainty about a currency. Fact is that the Euro is stabilising against the US$. More and more people start to store their savings in Euro, all this makes a strong currency. Maybe you dont see the advantages but companies do. Now many companies have much greater advantages to expand in Europe (less taxes, less currency fluctuation, better Cashflow forecasting). What did you expect, of course does such a new "thing" have disadvantages as well, but you have to pay the price for a good future of a healthy european economy.

Ever thought about what would happen without the currency. I can assure you that globalisation would lead to point that most european companies would be owned by the US. This change was urgent, unfortunately (or maybe you are lucky) you will never see what would happen without it!

[PitViper 0]

2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ July 04 2002,142)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most european governments are right wing now. Do you think Belusconi, Chirac and Aznar (to name a few) are "lefties"?<span id='postcolor'>

lol.. they are moderate right.  and they are the only ones who aren't a lefty in all of Europe. You are not honestly claiming that Europe is right wing correct? :O

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And what the hell is that crap of Union of European Socialist Republics? Are you smoking crack??<span id='postcolor'>

The EU will be a Union of European Socialist Republics correct? I don't see how that is inaccurate.

[Sadico 1]

Let me guess: you are from the USA, don't you? guys like Belusconi, Chirac or Aznar may look like lefties to an american (they are lefties compared to Bush), but in europe they are right wing. And yes, although you americans seem to think that most european governments are "socialists", we europeans don't see it that way. Just look at Denoir. In Sweden he is right wing, but i've seen several americans here saying that he is a socialist or a commie.

[InRange 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 04 2002,20:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @ July 04 2002,19:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I didn't think it was tasteless. Some Hitler perodies are actually funny. Take 'Mr. Hilter' in Monthy Python's Flying Circus. Now that was funny. 'Vote Hilter for a better Meinhead'

On a different note, I think Britain is better off with the Pound Sterling. The Euro sucks ass. I wish Holland never participated in it. Everything's a lot more expensive.<span id='postcolor'>

why do you say that? Of course you hear all that consumer gossip of which only 10% might be true. Of course the media abuse this topic cause nothing is better than to create uncertainty about a currency. Fact is that the Euro is stabilising against the US$. More and more people start to store their savings in Euro, all this makes a strong currency. Maybe you dont see the advantages but companies do. Now many companies have much greater advantages to expand in Europe (less taxes, less currency fluctuation, better Cashflow forecasting). What did you expect, of course does such a new "thing" have disadvantages as well, but you have to pay the price for a good future of a healthy european economy.

Ever thought about what would happen without the currency. I can assure you that globalisation would lead to point that most european companies would be owned by the US. This change was urgent, unfortunately (or maybe you are lucky) you will never see what would happen without it!<span id='postcolor'>

Well, let me explain myself. I'm speaking from my own experience as a consumer. Almost everywhere, especially in bars and cafes prices have gone up.

Now, a Euro is 2.20 old Dutch Guilders. But instead of making things 2.20 times as cheap, most shopkeepers and barowners have simply split the old price in half, thus makeing at least 10% profit from it. And the consumer pays 10% more than before. I have to correct my earlier statement, however. It's not the Euro itself that's bad, it's the people that abuse it to make profit.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

ooooh, that is really a touching story

No, but seriously. Just imagine the USA wouldnt be a United States to one country! You really think this huge amount of countries with their borders and taxation on each good crossing from one state to the other would have ever become so strong? Never ever! The USA has such a strong economical power that the rising eyebrow of Mr. Greenspan has more impact on the global economy than an atomic bomb in Bern!

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 05 2002,22:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ooooh, that is really a touching story  

No, but seriously. Just imagine the USA wouldnt be a United States to one country! You really think this huge amount of countries with their borders and taxation on each good crossing from one state to the other would have ever become so strong? Never ever! The USA has such a strong economical power that the rising eyebrow of Mr. Greenspan has more impact on the global economy than an atomic bomb in Bern!  <span id='postcolor'>

Are you seriously making a case for "Europe-A Nation"! Hitler did not say that, but one man who did was Mosley, it was the dream of the intelectual far right. We are many nations, cultures and languages, making a comparison to the USA is flawed to say the least.

Vive the Europe of Nations I say.

[Frisbee 0]

InRange is right,everything has gotten more expensice (live in flanders btw)

but it's not the euro to blame completely,beer just got more expensive here (one thing i don't like getting more expensive ) but a lot of these things were due for a price rise years back,and using the euro to adapt to it isn't such a bad move

and well,yeah,there might be disadvantages for now,but i'm fairly sure it'll have a positive effect in the future

and ontopic,it's just as moronic as the nineteenth century were socialist and communists were comapred with devils,taking advantage of the religiousness of people

since know hardly anyone is THAT religious anymore they just use the modern personification of the devil,which,imho is just low,get your point across with reason and not with propaganda

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 06 2002,00:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ July 05 2002,22:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ooooh, that is really a touching story  

No, but seriously. Just imagine the USA wouldnt be a United States to one country! You really think this huge amount of countries with their borders and taxation on each good crossing from one state to the other would have ever become so strong? Never ever! The USA has such a strong economical power that the rising eyebrow of Mr. Greenspan has more impact on the global economy than an atomic bomb in Bern!  <span id='postcolor'>

Are you seriously making a case for "Europe-A Nation"! Hitler did not say that, but one man who did was Mosley, it was the dream of the intelectual far right. We are many nations, cultures and languages, making a comparison to the USA is flawed to say the least.

Vive the Europe of Nations I say.<span id='postcolor'>

Why is europe soo scared of USE(united states of europe ),Or something like that.America is great because we have states,no stopping each time we cross a state(unless in a moving truck or 18 wheeler).Plus it probably will help alot of poor european nations.Blah.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 06 2002,13:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why is europe soo scared of USE(united states of europe ),Or something like that.America is great because we have states,no stopping each time we cross a state(unless in a moving truck or 18 wheeler).Plus it probably will help alot of poor european nations.Blah.<span id='postcolor'>

Because we have something that you don't and that is diversity of culture. Or perhaps I should just say culture. I know this might be hard for you to comperhend, but there are other things in the world besides economical benifits that one has to consider.

[foxer 0]

What do you mean by culture ? Just because all countries join something doesn't mean they have to stop doing something.But hey i don't know nothing about culture.....    

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 06 2002,13:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you mean by culture ? Just because all countries join something doesn't mean they have to stop doing something.But hey i don't know nothing about culture.....    <span id='postcolor'>

Well, take for instance the currency. All European countries have had their own design of their currencies which gives diversity. Now with the Euro that has been lost. The Euro is also IMO very ugly - of course not as ugly as the dollar, that would be impossible , but still it is uglier then the previous local currencies

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Economy can be treated seperately from culture. I dont see why your heritage is in danger if we have a combined Stockmarket London-Frankfurt? On the other hand, if your economy sucks globalisation will overrun you and you end up with a McDonalds-culture such as many Asian countries. I dont want Europe to become one country in terms of culture. I dont dream of Arians in spain, Italy and France. But I dream of a such a brilliant faciliation of trade as the USA has it. You want to emancipate Europe? Well first you gotta make sure your economy can keep up with the US speed, and for that you gotta drop borders and the anxiety to work with your neighbours that once were your deadly enemies!

[Guest]

No, I agree with you Albert, and I amm pro Euro. I however wanted to give foxer an explanation of why there is resistance against the Euro.

I think however that the EU will never be as USA (and it's a good thing IMO) since we have too many different cultures that have their own history. Trying to join the Germans, French and English in some form of homogenous group is a bit hard

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I agree, it is not easy to work with people from a different nation (working with Brits, no damm way   ). No but that is actually an advantage cause there is nothing worse in a company if all executives always agree. This beares the greates risk of taking the wrong decision. Now imagine you would do brainstorming on a certain issue with an Italian, a swedish, a french, a spanish, a dutch, damm hell, I assure you you would get great great results with many many ideas and inputs. I am so fed up of this people be anoyed that a former german company was bought by e.g. a french company. So what? What is the deal? It stays in europe, the company has new financialy strong parent companies, and the employees can stay. We gotta learn not to think national in terms of business. There is no such thing anymore.  

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

The fact is its almost impossible to seperate this current EU endeavour from the grand sweep of history (in the minds of British people at least)

It looks like the same old story to the British public,

Vast catholic europe plotted and tried to bring the Britons

down,Spanish and French and papal plots and invasion attampts to unify europe under the Catholic faith, and then Napoleon the French dictator Unifying Europe for 'Liberte Egalite Fraternite',

and the militaristic Germans, then the militaristic nazi Germans

etc etc

The Spanish Armada, the Wars against Napoleon-the battles of Waterloo and Trafalgar, the Crimean campaign, the first world war , the second world war etc

all of these were in part to do with keeping europe seperate and devoid of one controlling power and staving off invasion.....

British history since 1066 in Europe can be seen as a record of a thousand years of repelling continental invaders and keeping 'the balance of power' throughout unstable europe including taking sides when one power bloc becomes too great.

Thats certainly what it feels like.(regardless of historical facts)

Joining the EU single currency would be a major break with this tradition (+ there will be more and more attempts at centralised control)

so comparisons of this european regime to earlier regimes we fought against are almost inevitable (im actually surprised it wasnt played on more)

Whatever 'Albert Schweizer' says Europe is too different to ever truly unite under one banner or align with one set of ideals. It is a continent with thousands of years of intertwined but contrasting and distinct histories.

The fact is a whole lot of British people have a pretty negative opinion of mainland europeans

Spanish people are unbelievably lazy and take our money and our fish and are cruel to animals

Germans have more rules and regulations than a British person could imagine and still live in a humourless and dictatorial society

Holland is full of gay drug addicts

Belgium doesnt exist

Brussels is a country where all the sneaky communist/liberal/fascist politicians take our money and where paedophiles are protected by overly liberal government conspiracies

France is where they drive like maniacs, want to take over europe,are rude and overbearing and have a foul odour (probably from eating frogs legs)

Italy is also a place where they drive like maniacs and where they still worship Mussolini and they spend five years argueing about whether to repair a hole in the road

Scandinavia is a deserted and mostly harmless socialist peninsula.

This is what we think of you,(a tiny generalisation) no doubt other europeans think even worse of the British and thats fine,

But i wouldnt want to be joined at the hip with these countries and thats what this issue amounts to.

This is not just about economic union under a common currency. There will certainly be attempts to take more power from individual nation states and increase the powers of the EU, this is all part of the vision of a 'United States of Europe'

The EU is NOT democratic as any sensible person would understand democracy. Its a bureaucracy ruled by a political class .

The French will try to control europe and the Germans will try to organise it.

At least thats the way the EU seems to be going at the moment (especially in peoples perceptions)

its about a whole national history of fighting to maintain political economic and ideological distictiveness from the continent we are at the edge of ...the right to live by our own rules , work by our own rules and die by our own rules

to set our own ideas and ideals of freedom out and the ability to change our country as we see fit ,at our own speed and with a minimum of external interference.

All european cultures are distinct and unique but some in different ways than others.

The French ,Italians, Germans Spanish (at least)

all have very distinctive cultural manifestations , food ,music, dance, traditional architechture etc

They are quite proud of these and take them to be the most obvious and therefore noteworthy signs of their national culture. The EU will not interfere with these, escpecially as they help earn lots of tourist money

The British have these too but they mean little. (or even less than in those countries)

Our national food is Indian curry or Turkish kebab(if youre drunk enough), our national drink is cheap imported beer, our national dance seems to be 'Morris dancing' which must be the lamest dance in Europe, our traditional music is more or less forgotten and any sense of a traditional architechture style has been completly overwhelmed by countless housing estates with the most depressing drabness outside of Eastern europe.

So come on, we NEED our Pounds Sterling and our economic , political and ideological distinctiveness, (which WOULD be infringed in time) we need to be the little country that says no, we need the space to be a little bit different from all the other europeans (or at least think we are)

bah this is the most rambling ive done for ages

im tired

[Guest]

I think that what is interesting is that Great Britain would profit very much from a closer relationship with the EU. This is because you need to build up a modern infrastructure in the society. GB had its maximum peak during the Victorian era and the whole infrastructure dates from that period (industry, buildings, communications etc..). Sooner or later a big effort will be required to bring Britain up to date, and for that I think that Britain needs cooperation. Whether you like it or not, Europe is closer and better for that then USA.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Denoir -i agree with a lot of that.... although i think perhaps communication technology may have improved a little bit  

But i seem to remember Britain is mostly a service (tertiary) industry country now, i dont think was the case in the victorian era now was it?

But otherwise yes, the national infrastructure could do with a renewal

Yes Europe is geographically closer , but different countries have different views and on most subjects we in this country are somewhere in the middle of the atlantic, the French are somewhere in Siberia and rest are somewhere in europe

We DO NOT have the same views or anything near. Perhaps this is not a good thing but it is a thing none the less.

Then again maybe we >should< join the EU more wholeheartedly, my opinion often changes and if someone else criticises the EU you will probably see me defend it

But the EU must change DRAMATICALLY before i really want to be a part of it (even if i already am nominally)

You call it democratic? PAH ive seen packs of wolves that have more democracy

The individual countries are, but the EU institution itself is as rotten and wasteful as compost heap full of caviar, i think ideally they should sack everyone and start again

Why are we still giving billions in development money to Spain for instance? Have you been to Spain lately?

i have and it sure as hell didnt look very deprived to me, the North of England could do with that, but of course if the Spanish lost out then theyde get in a huff and start veto-ing things

The whole system is tinged with rotten politics ,favouritism, etc etc

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 06 2002,16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that what is interesting is that Great Britain would profit very much from a closer relationship with the EU. This is because you need to build up a modern infrastructure in the society. GB had its maximum peak during the Victorian era and the whole infrastructure dates from that period (industry, buildings, communications etc..). Sooner or later a big effort will be required to bring Britain up to date, and for that I think that Britain needs cooperation. Whether you like it or not, Europe is closer and better for that then USA.<span id='postcolor'>

As soon as Britain starts relying on other nations for everything we shall cease to be a nation worth our name.

[Supah 0]

MAN europe one country is the best idea ever! Every countries national holidays for every other country! Think about it, We would never have to work again with all the days off we'd get

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The good thing is that people will take care of Europe that have done their studies not only in the village they grew up but in several other countries. "Open-mind" is not just a gay greeting for 2 people being stoned but absolutely fundamental when trying to work with so many nationalities.

The UK is more and isolating from the rest of Europe, I guess this must be visible to anyone! If a certain sense of pride and ideological conservatism is worth this loss, well u judge.

I seriously wonder what all this "prejudice" is about. I seriously give a fuck if I have to work with a Fin or Dutch or whatever eats and shits! (sorry)

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 06 2002,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The British have these too but they mean little. (or even less than in those countries)

Our national food is Indian curry or Turkish kebab(if youre drunk enough), our national drink is cheap imported beer, our national dance seems to be 'Morris dancing' which must be the lamest dance in Europe, our traditional music is more or less forgotten and any sense of a traditional architechture style has been completly overwhelmed by countless housing estates with the most depressing drabness outside of Eastern europe.<span id='postcolor'>

lol @ cultural poverty , the only thing that are interesting are from your old colonies and from foreigners who live in england

(no offence intended)

i don't understand the isolationism policy of the GB , they are in deep shit with their sinistred coal exploitation regions for exemple , the europe could help

and talking about veto rights , if GB joind EU one day , GB will have its veto right too and i'm sure GB won't hesitate to use it

as for the french taking over europe , wanting to take the control of EU .... WTF lol , we have enough problems in france to want to control the rest of the europe , and it's not because the EU president is french that all the decisions will be taken in favor of France