This game is a complete and utter failure and this is why:

[ToxLaximus 1]

Unlike most games this one can take a while to learn and ages to master, its a shame some people give up on the game before getting into it, it is rewarding.

[scottmana 1]

I think the game gets a little too much criticism.

I thought the FPS portion was not very good. The thing is I could see WHY. It was an intro, it had you walk around and get to know aspects of an island you may miss when commanding units. I thought that justified everything. To compensate for the lackluster FPS, the FPS portions are easy as hell (clearly it had to be).

I agree $50 for the game is a little steep for the game in it's current state. Other people in this thread had their opinions about what it should have sold for, I will leave it at that.

[Dajunka 10]

Yep, I can see that the rage being primary over the price, it was a bit steep. They were the wrong side of 30. I can't understand the upset being over the game itself, that is brilliant.

[Luxangel7 1]

Exactly. The largest problem being the pathfinding which is not all that much of a problem if you are enjoying the game.

I am actually finding a lot more bugs and annoying glitches in the new Xcom.

you've said nothing to the main point of my post, yet your posts presume absolute correctness in your opinion.

Someone else even asked how the game is able to be finished, since you and others seem to purport that the biggest issue is the walrus pathfinding, (which is way worse than you make it out to be, especially when an undocked walrus just goes around in circles near my carrier forever)

So since you ignored his first request, I'll ask you blatantly: HOW did you finish the game? Be simple and direct, because I and others found it to be impossible.

and to the moderator: noted about the rules, but honestly, you can call my post a rant, but you very well know its not. Everything I posted regarding the shortcomings of the game are valid and obvious issues, whether or not I'm disillusioned and angry because I was made to fork over full price for an unfinished game most certainly doesn't magically turn it into a "rant".

Honestly, calling it that came across as you trying to insult me in the most passive way possible. And whether or not I used search or if a dev somewhere said "we're working on things" doesn't justify the underlying game stopping problem being there in the first place.

This isn't aimed at you specifically mod, but It's really sad that people can't just come to terms with something being broken and simply admitting "yeah, that shouldn't have happened". Good grief, from some of the reactions to my post it's almost as if this got read by a dev's grandma who thinks they can do no wrong.

Rules say I shouldn't have talked about piracy? Yeah ok, my bad. But should people blindly defend an unfinished, waaaay overpriced game that can't even be completed? Hell no.

[tortuosit 486]

No time for more... Luxangel7 is honest in what he writes, he mentions some points worth discussing (but I think one can enjoy the game :)) and @mod don't easily stop a good discussion just because of one side note (piracy) which is not the overall point here. We're not Sissies.

[species1571 64]

I only played the campaign once and had no problem completing it just by following the story and searching for the parts that were needed. You may be wasting time by trying to re-take lost islands. Once you have visited an island once, you already know if it has the part you are looking for, so going back to it won't change that. Just move onto another island and eventually you will find the parts you need to compete the game.

[Luxangel7 1]

Thank you for your suggestion Species1571, unfortunately I tried that, and the real problem that comes up with that is that by the time I had taken my second enemy Island after fulcrum, I had lost half of the Islands I conquered in the first part of the game. This effectively turned any hopes I had of producing replacement parts for lost units or new parts I got from research labs impossible.

Thats a big part of why the game is unfinishable, it's not just because I "don't want" to lose any islands, it's because due to the problem with the enemy carrier if I choose to ignore it my game effectively turns into a "Battlestar Galactica" scenario where I dont have any reinforcements or resupply yet I'm still expected to win the war....it's just not possible.

I honestly can't understand how you were able to finish it....I wasted over 40 fuel packs just chasing the enemy carrier for half an hour as it capture FIVE islands in half an hour!!!! I mean it took me that long when I was capturing an Island if I was taking my time and enjoying the game, but rushing as much as I could it still takes me 15 minutes or so at least, since all the mission objectives get reset...it's just not possible to keep up....

[max power 21]

Luxangel7

You may express your view as you wish as long as the expression itself is within the bounds of the forum rules. If you have a comment about the forum moderation you may take it to PM. This is your final warning before administrative action is taken.

Just relax and read the forum rules and unnecessary interventions will be prevented.

§2) Follow the instructions of the moderators

When a moderator or BIS staff member asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions. If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter.

§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter. You may also ask your questions in the "Ask a mod" thread; however that thread is not to be used to attack/rant against specific moderators or about specific rules but more for questions/answers.

[ToxLaximus 1]

I don't think you should bully this guy in public Max Power, leave the guy alone.

[W0lle 1050]

Infraction coming your way, we do not allow any comment or discussion on how the forums are moderated.

If the massive rule violations continue in here, we simply turn the key and end the discussion. Your choice.

[CATOBAR 1]

Granted, aggressive title, but it's warranted after paying $50 and trudging through about 20 hours of campaing tutorial to find out that the game is completely broken.

Whenever someone has spent money on a product not to their satisfaction they will undoubtedly be a degree of anger from that individual, as well they will be a slight disappointment from the developers who placed they time rather than money into the very same product.

You make some very good points, and for the most part would be inclined to agree with many of them. For nothing else other than the very same points you made angered myself. I almost threw in the towel alongside with yourself. But unless you try every avenue and overlook shortcomings what remains is just a waste of your money. However if you follow the following advice based upon my experience and cross referencing your valid points, i can offer you the following advice.

poorly made fps segments

Hold shift key whilst targeting, to slow down the mouse movement and use right mouse button to zoom on longer shots. side stepping (strafing) will help control the mouse movement a little under heated moments as well.

the carrier has unlimited fuel, can't ever die

&

if you don't immediately go to an Island thats being attacked, you will lose it

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?141562-Campaign-Mode-Enemy-Carrier&p=2240106#post2240106

please see this thread the answer and the gentle words of persuasion are they for you too read if you look hard enough.

even if you tell yourself that you can do it and try to go through it all again by the time you're about half way done recapturing the enemy has already definitely captured one island and started taking another.

Forget every island apart from your trade route and your outpost let it take the rest, just maintain your presence and fight on the new islands only in order to obtain the technology that is required to finish the game and make life easier fro yourself.

This game has amazing potential, so much so that I chose to overlook the HORRENDOUS walrus AI

If you can tolerate this, your have it in yourself to discover the good in this game, but like myself you have got to get beyond your current mode of thinking, and accept things for what they are. the walrus AI can be put to good use by using a mixed fleet in order to create a temporary base camp that can effectively hold off all attack types well. then using a manta fleet as a strike force, sending it back n forth between carrier and targets clear islands very well as you get better tech.

but making it so that you constantly lose islands almost magically??? Sorry, but that's where I wanted to throw the proverbial controller through the screen and just completely quit and uninstalled the game.

This is the same part that lead me to the forums, quit focusing so much on the AI carrier and concentrate on the mission objectives.

Now we can discuss how bad certain parts of the game anytime, we could even be more constructive, ask for help, ask questions, complete the game, and then we are both constructive and informed about what we say. Because unless you are prepared to take the rough with the smooth, all you have in your hand is wasted money. When you could have so much more.

We all get angry, but I want you too use the anger for a better benefit than simply to make complaints. making non informed complaints makes you look bad, but making a complaint that has a informed aspect leads to more respect.

Edited October 14, 2012 by CATOBAR

[CaptainHaplo 1]

It astounds me. Are ya'll even playing the same game as I am? I haven't lost a single island to the enemy. I sank the enemy carrier - and never got attacked after that. There is a trick to not losing islands. I can't put it here - but search the forums and you will find it. Make no mistake, it is an "exploit.

[CATOBAR 1]

Well now that sounds as much fun as getting angry about the game... I wont bother looking if its all the same.

[CaptainHaplo 1]

Catobar - by alll means don't. You get to play your way, I play mine. That is what makes it fun!

[Gunter Severloh 4056]

I agree $50 for the game is a little steep for the game in it's current state.

It is, but keep in mind that with BIS your also paying for support, just do your part and report the bugs.

[ST7Raven 1]

It's funny how people get sooo mad about the little things. Have you not noticed all the work put into this "failed game"? No. Of course there are a few minor problems with the game, duh. Name a game right now with 100% problems whatsoever and I'll rage right along side you. It's ok, i'll wait.

[LeilaniLad 1]

Long time BI player, first time post:

Purchased and own ToH, ARMA and CC. After reading the tone and attitude the moderators use to address a dissatisfied customer, I am sad to say I will not be supporting BI in the future.

There are so many better ways to handle a dissatisfied customer than simply saying, "Love it or leave it" then threatening with a ban (look at Paradox's forums after SOTS2, they handled things with grace in the justifiable anger of purchasers).

The tone of the moderator in this thread takes me back to the days when Derek Smart would moderate the BC2000 forums by banning anyone with a negative opinion to insure that the forum audience would be comprised solely of supporters.

It's not just the thuggish nature of the verbiage in the warnings, it's the hypocritical action of posting a threat of discipline unless the user took his comment to a PM.... but posting this threat on the board itself (rather than, you know, using a PM as the mod himself suggested). This demonstrates a serious vein of narcissism in the moderator's opinion of their role.

I am voting with my wallet from here on out. No more money to BI from me. I know little here care, but just wanted to put my two cents in before

[dram 14]

Hi Luxangel,

1) If the devs don't fix this enormous game breaking issue, and at least attempt to address all the other stuff like Walrus AI and low rpm power then they will have lost a customer forever. Selling something that's unfinished is just deceitful and should be illegal.

2) I am just one person, but I would be wiling to bet anything that there are countless more people like me that had the same reaction.

I am very sorry you feel the game is completely broken. Obviously as a developer of the game I want players to enjoy it as much as possible. We are aware there are bugs, especially regarding pathfinding, which is also why we are addressing it:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?141129-Carrier-Command-Gaea-Mission-AI-pathfindng-to-be-addressed

Regarding the terrible FPS sections, especially the intro, then I can say as the developer that made that section I am obviously unhappy it turned out that way. Those sections were not meant to challenge Call of Duty or Mass Effect, on the contrary, they were meant merely as a tool of portraying a part of the story to the player, in a very personalized manner. If it did not work out that way then that is something to consider for the future, and I can assure you I have personally read over a hundred reviews, threads, and comments indicating that these sections were not exactly favored. I am saying this because I want you to understand that on the other end, the developers, are people too.

As for losing you as a customer (or in my case, player), I am not happy with it and it is upsetting when people give up on your game. As I mentioned, the pathfinding issue is being addressed, and regarding the walrus having low rpm, that is due to its physical size - 3m tall. A vehicle that large is essentially a monster truck. However, if its speed is insufficient for you, then as I mentioned in numerous threads, we are releasing a modding pack, so you will easily be able to change them into a formula 1 if you wish. Along with the modding pack will be the editor, allowing you to change or create new islands, particle effects, GUI elements, and so on. But apart from that I also want you to know that we do support our games, including direct contact with developers such as myself. This in turn means you are literally able to influence how the game is further developed, fixed, or improved. Suggestions made by our players are taken into account when we consider how to improve the game, or make a new title.

HOW did you finish the game? Be simple and direct, because I and others found it to be impossible.

The issue here is that the second half of the campaign was intended as Myrik desperately trying to locate the torpedo to eliminate the enemy carrier, so the task is meant to be to find the torpedo, not fight the enemy carrier. If this section did not feel or turn out that way, then that is unfrtunate and is to be considered for the future.

And whether or not I used search or if a dev somewhere said "we're working on things" doesn't justify the underlying game stopping problem being there in the first place.

No it is not good when things are broken, however this is due to the sheer scale of the game. With such a large world to play in with countless possibilities, it is just impossible to address them all. I can assure you that prior to release everything was tested thoroughly and as extensively as possible, however it is evident that the scale of the game does not make it possible to track down every bug in the game. Some bugs are impossible to address in the available time (such as the pathfinding, which is being addressed now), while others were simply unknown. Obviously when you give the game to players, then immediately they find bugs we could not even dream of. 100,000 players is much more than a few dozen testers. In any case, everything is a learning experience, even this fact, so it is definitely going to come to the table whether to have early alphas available for players to try in the future.

This isn't aimed at you specifically mod, but It's really sad that people can't just come to terms with something being broken and simply admitting "yeah, that shouldn't have happened". Good grief, from some of the reactions to my post it's almost as if this got read by a dev's grandma who thinks they can do no wrong.

Obviously we are not children, thus not susceptible to insults pushing us to tears. However we do not ignore them, we learn from the issues addressed. Insults do not improve a game or influence it, they are merely a vent of anger due to something the player was displeased with in the game, thus the insults themselves are treated as such. Nonetheless, the issue brought up IS received and considered, and in that sense we are taking feedback, both positive and negative, to the drawing board.

Long time BI player, first time post:

Purchased and own ToH, ARMA and CC. After reading the tone and attitude the moderators use to address a dissatisfied customer, I am sad to say I will not be supporting BI in the future.

There are so many better ways to handle a dissatisfied customer than simply saying, "Love it or leave it" then threatening with a ban (look at Paradox's forums after SOTS2, they handled things with grace in the justifiable anger of purchasers).

The tone of the moderator in this thread takes me back to the days when Derek Smart would moderate the BC2000 forums by banning anyone with a negative opinion to insure that the forum audience would be comprised solely of supporters.

It's not just the thuggish nature of the verbiage in the warnings, it's the hypocritical action of posting a threat of discipline unless the user took his comment to a PM.... but posting this threat on the board itself (rather than, you know, using a PM as the mod himself suggested). This demonstrates a serious vein of narcissism in the moderator's opinion of their role.

I am voting with my wallet from here on out. No more money to BI from me. I know little here care, but just wanted to put my two cents in before

I am sorry to hear this, the moderators are simply doing their job, they are not trying to stop negative feedback from reaching us, and we, as developers, want to hear it as well (or better said, need to) so we can improve this game and potential future iterations. Additionally, we most certainly are not taking the approach of "love it or leave it", on the contrary it is more like "love it, or why not?", and the issues brought up are addressed. Ultimately, this profession is not about creating something for oneself, but for others, and allowing them to critique your work is a part of the process. It is necessary to further improve and adapt. As a developer I can say that I love making games, it is fulfilling and satisfying. I am happy when players enjoy what I make, and learn from what they don't. This, at its core, is what Bohemia Interactive is about, which is why we provide the excellent support, so we can improve our games further. Happy players means happy developers.

[Ash87 1]

This has probably been hashed out a couple times already, but I refused to waste 30 minutes of my life reading through every post on this thread just to address the OP.

Luxangel. I bought this game myself at 50$ the day of release. I just played through to 29 hours according to steam. I played through the entire campaign (Beat it like 10 minutes ago). So, I am going to go point to point here.

Granted, aggressive title, but it's warranted after paying $50 and trudging through about 20 hours of campaing tutorial to find out that the game is completely broken.

Here is the problem:

I plodded through all the clunkiness of the first part of the campaign and the horrendously boring and poorly made fps segments until I nuked Fulcrum and unlocked the part where the enemy carrier is active. aka, the "real" part of the game.

Now however, the carrier has unlimited fuel, can't ever die, when I FINALLY manage to track it down (because it always runs away from you) and "kill" it, it literally IMMEDIATELY respawns at the next island over and starts capturing Islands again. Oh and by the way, if you don't immediately go to an Island thats being attacked, you will lose it effectively reverting it back to square one as if you had NEVER captured it.

Point 1 here: Were you listening to the campaign? I mean kudos that you were capable of killing it, but this wasn't the skirmish mode, killing the carrier wasn't the "Key" as much as it was to go through the story. Elsewise they would have said: "Oh, hey boss, lets just blow up that guy's Carrier and be done with this" instead of "Oh no, we can't get close to that thing, it's way advanced and has some kind of torpedo that can kill the gods themselves."

That means that any of these magically defeated islands (carrier doesnt deploy anything or fight ANYTHING it just auto captures after a ridiculously short amount of time) will revert to how they were when you first attacked them. So any scramblers, mission objectives, etc etc everything has to be done all over again. As if this wasn't bad enough, even if you tell yourself that you can do it and try to go through it all again by the time you're about half way done recapturing the enemy has already definitely captured one island and started taking another.

Point 2: This is just wrong. If your defensive ability on the island is raised high enough, the enemy carrier, during the campaign, will sit on the same island for a LONG time (I was able to conquer 3 islands while the evil carrier was busy messing with 1 production island... it took about an hour before they had conquered it). And, if your island is good enough, the enemy carrier will NOT conquer it, they will leave after a while. As to having to reconquer it, yes you do if you really don't want the enemy to take any islands, but that is hardly necessary as long as you keep running through the missions.

(not to mention the amazingly sloppy cherry on top of all of the team mate video com messages playing again as if you were playing the first time, for example if the first island is captured, your officers talk to you as if your carrier needs all repairs again....very sloppy)

This effectively stops all campaign gameplay and turns it into a never ending war (if it can even be called that) of attrition where you are slowly losing to an enemy that can capture islands in the time it takes you to even get there.

This game has amazing potential, so much so that I chose to overlook the HORRENDOUS walrus AI, or the fact that they have the rpm power of golf carts, or the fact that mantas are made of paper and die after a few hits even with max armor, or the fact that the fps segments were about as polished as something a university student would have made or serious and missed opportunities like not being able to customize your carrier or anything on the islands you capture, but this is just too much.

The game is unplayable. To quote a friend "It's bad and you should feel bad".

Plenty of people have beaten the game already. But this is just nitpicking on my part.

I could already complain how the enemy carrier never deploys any units and that you never ACTUALLY fight over any islands, you never go up against the carrier because you have to shoot it while it's running away from you, and since you're both at the same speed if you're lucky to intercept you can fight it....

but making it so that you constantly lose islands almost magically??? Sorry, but that's where I wanted to throw the proverbial controller through the screen and just completely quit and uninstalled the game.

After knowing you for Arma series, I would never have expected such an unfinished game. From now on, I will always pirate the game, finish it, and if it proves to be a well made product (whether I liked it or not) THEN I will buy it. Because I am SOOOOO tired of being essentially duped into buying an unfinished game. This is the third time in two months. (obviously not from the same dev studio)

No you wont, because what point do you have to buy something after you've beaten it. People say this, and expect that because they have given their solemn word that they would buy it afterwards, we should overlook the silliness of it.

And of course, I am just one unsatisfied customer, but I can guarantee two things:

1) If the devs don't fix this enormous game breaking issue, and at least attempt to address all the other stuff like Walrus AI and low rpm power then they will have lost a customer forever. Selling something that's unfinished is just deceitful and should be illegal.

2) I am just one person, but I would be wiling to bet anything that there are countless more people like me that had the same reaction.

I Don't really see the game as unplayable, as I said: I beat the game. If you can beat the game, it is not unplayable. There were a couple crashes, no more than any other modern release, and the bugginess was not Nearly as bad as Arma 2's campaign... which I do consider unplayable, because I quite literally could not progress after a certain point, because after 10 steps I would die, everytime. This game does not have that issue, and giving up after a certain amount of time because of frustration is certainly within your rights, it does not mean that you are in the unassailable position of being the bringer of truth.

I would advise stepping a way a while, taking a few deep breaths, and returning to finish the game after patching it, I hear the patches solve most of the Walrus AI issues. Not to mention, that I found a suggestion online, that you simply command your units individually instead of doing group movement, you would clear up about 80% of the pathfinding issues.

However if you are utterly devoted to playing games that are completely bug free... best of luck to you, I haven't found such a game in years.

[Japalax 1]

I've played the demo a few times on my desktop that has i7-975 and gtx 295, I wasn't hopeful that it would run on my M11xR3 armed with i7-2637 & GT540m, I'm really impressed, it runs good on medium/low.

Some questions about the full game, Can I play in FPS mode in strategy game or is it campaign only? because I really enjoyed the fps part, what a great mix of game play, if the fps mode can't be done in strategy mode, please add this feature.

I hope this game gets an expansion or some kind of add-on, more units for the carrier, like squad of driod/soldiers or perhaps underwater bases, could have submarine type units and attack underwater bases, would add an extra dimension of game play not to mention more replay value :D.

Going to get buy my self a copy of this soon, I've got to say well done to the dev's and everyone else involved :D.

[djmorgan 10]

Martin Melicharek

Senior Designer, Bohemia Interactive

An excellent response by clearly a dedicated developer, this should put an end to this thread

David

[species1571 64]

Can I play in FPS mode in strategy game or is it campaign only? because I really enjoyed the fps part, what a great mix of game play, if the fps mode can't be done in strategy mode, please add this feature.

No, strategy mode only consists of the core gameplay involving island warfare, as in the original game. As Dram said, the FPS segments were only included in the campaign for storytelling purposes.

[Guest]

I have sent out a few infractions for those feeling the need to discuss the forum moderation in public.

§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter. You may also ask your questions in the "Ask a mod" thread; however that thread is not to be used to attack/rant against specific moderators or about specific rules but more for questions/answers.

Feel free to share with the rest what you think about the game, as long as you do it in a repsectfull way. You are however not free to share with the rest what you think of the moderation on these forums!

[Dajunka 10]

I must be slipping, or getting old. For once; I agree with everything a game developer said. ;)

[Mr Butlertron 10]

I am sorry to hear this, the moderators are simply doing their job, they are not trying to stop negative feedback from reaching us, and we, as developers, want to hear it as well (or better said, need to) so we can improve this game and potential future iterations. Additionally, we most certainly are not taking the approach of "love it or leave it", on the contrary it is more like "love it, or why not?", and the issues brought up are addressed. Ultimately, this profession is not about creating something for oneself, but for others, and allowing them to critique your work is a part of the process. It is necessary to further improve and adapt. As a developer I can say that I love making games, it is fulfilling and satisfying. I am happy when players enjoy what I make, and learn from what they don't. This, at its core, is what Bohemia Interactive is about, which is why we provide the excellent support, so we can improve our games further. Happy players means happy developers.

I'm sorry but the moderators here are incredibly unprofessional, overzealous and defensive of their conduct and BIS products to an absurd degree. To the extent that it has defined this forum's reputation amongst the tactical gaming community. They do far more damage than any troll could. It'd be great if you could look into getting proper community managers in the future when BIS is expanding.