Altering OA models

[VoodooMTL 12]

Ideally, I'd be asking this to Schnapsdrossel, but it seems he hasn't been around for a few years now... Hopefully someone else knows the answer to this.

In his SpecOps, Mercs, BlackOps, OpFor addon, I noticed he has slightly altered BIS models by removing helmets, pouches and other slight details. So far, all I've heard was that it was impossible to modify BIS models as they have not released MLODs for Arma 2/OA - but obviously Schnaps proved that wrong.

> snip <

So is there someone who knows of an easy way/tool to do this? Am I using the right tools, and/or is there something I should be doing to ensure that my modified model doesn't crash my game?

Thanks in advance...

Edited October 7, 2012 by Max Power

[Sealife 22]

As you see in credits he didn't use binarised bis models

Credits:

Me (SchnapsdroSel)

Johnny (for models from his US Army Special Forces templates)// <<<<<<<<<

norrin (for animated pistol holster script)

Lennard (for pointing me towards the script)

> snip <

Illegal activity if you release any of that without permission you'll be in trouble

Edited October 7, 2012 by Max Power

[ProfTournesol 956]

Exactly. The only way is to ask BIS for MLODS.

[PuFu 4591]

Ideally, I'd be asking this to Schnapsdrossel, but it seems he hasn't been around for a few years now... Hopefully someone else knows the answer to this.

In his SpecOps, Mercs, BlackOps, OpFor addon, I noticed he has slightly altered BIS models by removing helmets, pouches and other slight details. So far, all I've heard was that it was impossible to modify BIS models as they have not released MLODs for Arma 2/OA - but obviously Schnaps proved that wrong.

After digging around, >SNIP<. Sure enough, when I re-binned a file I had modified and tried to use it in the game, it caused a CTD.

So is there someone who knows of an easy way/tool to do this? Am I using the right tools, and/or is there something I should be doing to ensure that my modified model doesn't crash my game?

Thanks in advance...

Thing is, according to EULA you sign when installing OA, you are NOT allowed to reverse-engineer any of the content BIS made. That includes 3d models, and that is exactly what the > snip < does.

Short version: there is no way to do it.

Edited October 7, 2012 by PuFu
max forgot to edit the quoted part :P

[lennard 447]

Exactly. The only way is to ask BIS for MLODS.

You can always try, but it is fruitless.

[VoodooMTL 12]

As you see in credits he didn't use binarised bis models

Upon further examination and comparison between models, it appears the models are indeed a bit different. However, they do have some parts that I'm pretty sure are BIS OA stuff. `

Here's a pic for comparison. On the left, the OA takistani rifleman. On the right, Schaps's Middle Eastern Army rifleman:

http://i45.tinypic.com/a0guoz.jpg

So I'm guessing that even though BIS' models are locked shut, there are still some parts (like hats, vests, pouches, scarves, etc) that can be "called" from a source file or something? Perhaps by proxy? (Bear with me if none of this makes any sense, I'm very new at this). Either that or Schnaps DID reverse-engineer some stuff and I guess I uncovered it accidentally...

Illegal activity if you release any of that without permission you'll be in trouble

Heh, it would have to work first for that! But thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of this and I do respect that. I'm guessing this does not apply to textures, judging by the amount of retextures going around?

[max power 21]

Hey Voodoo Operator,

As the other forum members pointed out, reverse engineering BI's content isn't permitted on the forum. If you see other forum members that seem to have access to BI MLODs, especially ones that have been around for a while, it could be that they have special permission or some other agreement with Bohemia. The only way to find out for sure would be to ask Schnapsdrossel himself.

We ask that you don't talk about hacking, cracking, or reverse engineering tools. I know it can be a little difficult to figure out what the limit is, so don't hesitate to pm a moderator in the future if you are uncertain. The community tools forum would also serve as a bit of a guide.

AFAIK there is no way to 'call' parts of external models. If you were able to, you can't animate proxies so parts of soldier models called in this way would be totally static in the T pose.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Here's a pic for comparison. On the left, the OA takistani rifleman. On the right, Schaps's Middle Eastern Army rifleman:

http://i45.tinypic.com/a0guoz.jpg

By the looks: helmet's the ArmA 1 SLA soldier helmet with ArmA 2 materials and textures (pointy sides near the ears look like the ArmA 1 model), vest is from the ArmA 2 sample Russian soldier (Takistani model will use the same vest mesh+UV layout, just different textures - so not difficult to apply the OA textures to the available ArmA 2 model). Upper body (sleeves, armour etc.), legs, boots and that are the basic ArmA 1 US or RACS soldier stripped of all the pouches etc.

Only thing I can see that doesn't look like it was sourced from the available MLODs is the shemagh; but it's possible he got those from a 'friend' at BIS since I know some of the ArmA 2 models that use that shemagh were made by a well known community member.

[slatts 1978]

You can always try, but it is fruitless.

I concur

[VoodooMTL 12]

By the looks: helmet's the ArmA 1 SLA soldier helmet with ArmA 2 materials and textures (pointy sides near the ears look like the ArmA 1 model), vest is from the ArmA 2 sample Russian soldier (Takistani model will use the same vest mesh+UV layout, just different textures - so not difficult to apply the OA textures to the available ArmA 2 model). Upper body (sleeves, armour etc.), legs, boots and that are the basic ArmA 1 US or RACS soldier stripped of all the pouches etc.

Only thing I can see that doesn't look like it was sourced from the available MLODs is the shemagh; but it's possible he got those from a 'friend' at BIS since I know some of the ArmA 2 models that use that shemagh were made by a well known community member.

Wow, so a lot more work went into piecing those units than I thought... Not quite the answer I was hoping for, but at least I'm glad that I did get answers. Thanks to everyone (and sorry if I brought up a touchy subject).

The learning curve for Arma modeling is a bit too steep for my taste, so I guess I'll stick to retexturing for the moment. Maybe one day the MLODs will be released, who knows?

[max power 21]

I would say that it's good you did bring it up because it gives us an opportunity to arm you with the correct information. Modding isn't easy, and content authorship issues are even more challenging.

There are many MLODs already released by community members and BI. I think that doing characters is more involved than doing vehicles.

My advice to you would be to do a few simple but high quality pieces than try to find a group. Once you're in the group, you'll have access to their workflow and their knowledge base. You'll be working on their stuff, but since you are, they will have a vested interest in showing you the ropes.