Why do most people prefer coop, not cti?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well one can surely have more fun with a group of players who prefer a similar gameplay. On public servers the chances are tenfold higher to meet players who prefer and show their own/different gameplay "style".... The general problem is to get strangers play together without forcing ridiculous gameplay and/or mission "features" on them.

[cas 41]

My favorite MP game mode in good old OFP used group re-spawn.

For those that don't remember it group re-spawn means that if you get killed you re-spawn as the next highest ranking AI member of your team. Some good FDF-mod missions used this kind of re-spawn and i never saw it used since...

I don't know if there are problems with JIP (join in progress) with this game-mode?

Next thing i do not know is if it is possible to return control to the AI when a player gets banned or looses connection.

The good things with group re-spawn are:

- you do not need re-spawn areas (with all the related problems like spawn killing)

- no spawning units at all! (I hate it when units, sometimes even tanks etc. pop up out of nowhere... total realism killer)

- you care more for your team! If other players or AI's get killed it means you loose your extra lives.

- if you JIP you join inside your team - not at an airport or re-spawn point far away.

- you can choose to either use the AI for fighting or you keep them in the second line as replacements for human players.

- no mindless running around getting shot -your recourses are limited!

- you have a realistic chance to lead an AI force! If you get killed you do not spawn far away and effectively loose control over your team.

Hope group-respawn makes a reappearance! (unfortunately my time the last years is limited so no MP mission making for me lately)

[Muecke 114]

LoL

You guys made me lough. Were have you been the last 10 years ?

I know some ppl play coops really well and mostly realistic but afaik most of the coop players play lame.

Its about to get somewhere and blow something up or rescue the princess. If someone get shot dramatically he will be revived from his teammate.

No offense but this could be boring after a while. Thats why you need new coop missions all the time.

I play cti for 10 years now and to me its not boring at all.

Its player vs player + player vs ai + player using ai vs player and ai.

Every match is diffrent same like in football wich is every week the same game but allways diffrent.

CTI is in development all the time and you can use everything whats given in the game.

Every unit or every weapon. Infantry, cars, tanks, planes and so on.

There are just a few missions but you dont need many. Just change some parameter or map and you get a complete new scenario.

I can only speak mainly for the crCTI where iam developer.

Sometimes we dont want to play with ai so we switch them totally off and get a complete new goal.

Sometimes we play only vs ai and make them very mighty and get a creepy hard goal.

So all I want to say is that most of you ppl doesnt have a clue of whats CTI.

It could be everything you want this depends on what you set up before you start.

Btw if we play vs ai we call that coop... ;)

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Because AI doesn't rage :D

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Because AI doesn't rage :D

insert 'muttley laugh'

[Variable 322]

HI, i preffer the coop over the CTI because the coops are worked missions made with an objective where the people use to work together instead go alone, behave like suckers, stealing vehicles and blowing up things and then leave; the CTI missions are random without specific objectives but repetitive goals. I miss coops without Joint In Progress with a good intro to put you in situation, then you talk with the team to agree on whats the strong point of each one, pick up the equipment... and go for it; then a good outro to show your victory (or defeat), this doesnt happen on the CTIs... i've alot of good memories of the BAS coops back in the OFP times when i'd step with some random players that i didn't knew 'til then and we went together after an objective, working together and not behaving like dumb suckers. Those times are over. Let's C ya

Wipman, these days are not over. They are relived on the Comrades in Arms coop server. Great, tested missions, selecting a leader, devising a plan on the map together, and working together to complete the mission. We have been playing in this style since the days of OFP, and I can say the experience only improved. Check us out on my signature.

On topic: coop brings out the best of us, adversarials- the worst.

[BL1P 35]

Its too easy to exploit in TvT

[chortles 263]

Its too easy to exploit in TvT

What does this even mean, and how is co-op immune?

[PlacidPaul 11]

I think the large sandbox "do it all" style missions make for great moments, but the overall experience is largely the same. All the randomness in these missions don't make for random experiences. You always know what your playing, cause it always feels the same.

The different experiences is what i crave. Open ended objective based coop missions that focus on problem solving is the best way to get this, IMO :).

The problem is that everyone thinks this should come from one mission. Game editing communities get carried away with the eternal search for random and "look what i did" missions. When the community should partially focus on standardizing simple (not small!) focused missions and having thousands of them. This would be the holy grail of random experiences.

I would love to see BIS support this through the M.E. and support a database for these standardized missions. This M.E. is incredibly easy to use, but are there a massive amount of simple coop missions?? It seems that everyone makes them, but doesn't go public with them. You don't need to have a complicated "new idea" or a ridiculous coding skills to make a great coop mission. It just needs to function well and inspire problem solving and communication between players.

One of the traits of standardized coop missions (for me) would be, group respawn, only one primary task, multiple "optional" tasks that aid the primary, no "kill them all" tasks, and no ammo boxes, and more. This doesn't mean small scope or size, just more focused and on problem solving.

Rant over/ and obviously I vote COOP! :p

[chortles 263]

It just needs to function well and inspire problem solving and communication between players.

Somehow I believe that this is where most would-be user-made missions fail to get off of the ground. ;)

As for a database for these standardized missions, what do you mean? Are you looking for something different from the existing mission templates in the Editor?

[PlacidPaul 11]

As for a database for these standardized missions, what do you mean?

Since it's a little off-topic, I'll try to only respond once to my ramblings.

What I was day dreaming about, would be a integrated publishing feature. Many people have simple coop missions that they made to play with friends, but don't go through the hassle of uploading them publicly. If these could be uploaded ingame, then access them completely random while in a server. I'm pretty sure this feature would instantly add tens of thousands of missions to arma. Granted half garbage.

The problem is quality control. It would be nice to force guidelines, but how? Templates take away creativity. Rate the missions high quality, playable, or unplayable. Then delete the unplayable.

My point was that a community will always have this goal of bigger and better missions that are supposedly more random with endless replay value. When truly random missions already exist in a cumulative state, we just don't have access to them. One coop mission with no randomness or replay value, has value when you only play it once. As long as it's 1 out of 10,000 it is a random experience. Kinda like Comrades In Arms, but on a BIS in game level.

I think i was comparing CTI and average COOP play, but i forgot, because i said randomness too many times. :p

[chortles 263]

The problem is quality control. It would be nice to force guidelines, but how? Templates take away creativity. Rate the missions high quality, playable, or unplayable. Then delete the unplayable.

Unworkable, can you imagine the sheer amount of Internet drama and sabotage this rating system would allow for? As I've said before, once upon a time, ARMA's best defense against hacking or criticism of its problems was its sheer obscurity... but it sounds like you're looking for a BI-hosted repository for user-made missions that could be connected to through a server client...

... and why wouldn't a system work for PVP missions such as CTI or deathmatch? ;)

[Variable 322]

I think the large sandbox "do it all" style missions make for great moments, but the overall experience is largely the same. All the randomness in these missions don't make for random experiences. You always know what your playing, cause it always feels the same.

The different experiences is what i crave. Open ended objective based coop missions that focus on problem solving is the best way to get this, IMO :).

The problem is that everyone thinks this should come from one mission. Game editing communities get carried away with the eternal search for random and "look what i did" missions. When the community should partially focus on standardizing simple (not small!) focused missions and having thousands of them. This would be the holy grail of random experiences.

I would love to see BIS support this through the M.E. and support a database for these standardized missions. This M.E. is incredibly easy to use, but are there a massive amount of simple coop missions?? It seems that everyone makes them, but doesn't go public with them. You don't need to have a complicated "new idea" or a ridiculous coding skills to make a great coop mission. It just needs to function well and inspire problem solving and communication between players.

One of the traits of standardized coop missions (for me) would be, group respawn, only one primary task, multiple "optional" tasks that aid the primary, no "kill them all" tasks, and no ammo boxes, and more. This doesn't mean small scope or size, just more focused and on problem solving.

Rant over/ and obviously I vote COOP! :p

From now on, this is my anthem. You explained perfectly why the whole "dynamic" concept doesn't work for me. Coop is exactly the will to solve a problem together with friends! Brilliant! This might be the reason when failing a mission I want to play it over and over again until it's completed. I want to "solve" it.

Since it's a little off-topic, I'll try to only respond once to my ramblings.

What I was day dreaming about, would be a integrated publishing feature. Many people have simple coop missions that they made to play with friends, but don't go through the hassle of uploading them publicly. If these could be uploaded ingame, then access them completely random while in a server. I'm pretty sure this feature would instantly add tens of thousands of missions to arma. Granted half garbage.

The problem is quality control. It would be nice to force guidelines, but how? Templates take away creativity. Rate the missions high quality, playable, or unplayable. Then delete the unplayable.

My point was that a community will always have this goal of bigger and better missions that are supposedly more random with endless replay value. When truly random missions already exist in a cumulative state, we just don't have access to them. One coop mission with no randomness or replay value, has value when you only play it once. As long as it's 1 out of 10,000 it is a random experience. Kinda like Comrades In Arms, but on a BIS in game level.

I think i was comparing CTI and average COOP play, but i forgot, because i said randomness too many times. :p

PlacidPaul is referring to this. The CiA online mission list is totally manual but having it this way also serves the purpose of keeping track of completed missions. We prefer to focus missions we still haven't managed to "solve" :).

[R0adki11 3945]

Its too easy to exploit in TvT

Not really, if you play with a squad which has their own MOD pack, and its own maps which i do with FUSION. Also if its organised well you shouldn't have any issues.

[sapped 10]

I really prefer CTI, lucky there's a really active warfare server in australia.

although I'm not really into the RTS building/buying units side of things cos I'm bad at it. wish there's a version with predefined squads that constantly spawns to capture the map instead

[iceman77 18]

Any type of large scale game mode that pitts players vs other players (besides dayz). I would prefer CTI over COOPs any day of the week. Atleast there's a chance wage war against other players minds, instead of these drones we call AI.Players are unpredictable. Where as, I can predict exactly how an AI will react to any given situation. It gets boring after awhile killing AI over and over. If I had my way, I like large scale pure pvp, no AI. I miss arma1 in that aspect. Where several tvt campaign tournaments took place, plenty of C&H / AAS maps going on public servers.Those were the funnest times for me.

regards,

***1cem@n***

[chortles 263]

You seem to be in the minority there, Iceman... I mean, when you think of co-op as a case of "drones we call AI" and other players consider co-op to be puzzle solving or prefer the "predictability" (i.e. chance to catch the AI by surprise)... I think you guys are speaking a different language from each other. :p But then again, maybe the collective communities (it's not one single ARMA community after all) changed between ARMA 1 and ARMA 2/OA.

[Variable 322]

Players are unpredictable. Where as, I can predict exactly how an AI will react to any given situation.

Well, I don't know about that, but I do know that you can't predict the mission maker's choices. How will the QRF will react? Will the enemy have air support? What are the routes of the patrols? There are so many variables that come into play that make the mission completely unexpectable.

This might sound like a paradox, but human players in a PvP environment are actually more predictable. You usually know what equipment they have (teams need to be balanced), they will never be surprised (because they know enemies are nearby), they will never emulate behavior of humans routine - will never travel in columns as in real life, for example. Therefore, many times AI simulates human behavior much better than humans, and the mission can be much more immersive than in TVT.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Variable
damn iphone auto correct hits again...

[Muecke 114]

Well, I don't know about that, but I do know that you can't predict the mission maker's choices. How will the QRF will react? Will the enemy have air support? What are the routes of the patrols? There are so many variables that come into play that make the mission completely inexplicable.

This might sound like a paradox, but human players in a PvP environment are actually more predictable. You usually know what equipment they have (teams need to be balanced), they will never be surprised (because they know enemies are nearby), they will never emulate behavior of humans routine - will never travel in columns as in real life, for example. Therefore, many times AI simulates human behavior much better than humans, and the mission can be much more immersive than in TVT.

I can confirm that.

Also I saw some "pro" coop players who came very self-assured into a cti match. They where killed 20 times in the first 15min by ai.

Server said:

..."pro" coop player is disconected...

You can set your masses of ai on low skill in your coop missions. Iam ok with that.

It´s ok to have a easy match after a hard day of work too. But dont underestimated the ai in arma.

People who get bored by killing ai to easy should change the settings.

[Tash 1]

I would say coop is a better way to play with friends and a better of a game in a whole.

[Joe98 90]

What are the meanings of "COOP" and "CTI"?

[ryanbeckey0 1]

COOP = Cooperative, players working together ex. a group of 4 humans have to secure a village with enemy AI

CTI = Capture the island, team of players against another team of players, each player has a squad of AI he controls and you battle for cities/villages on the map

[metalcraze 290]

COOP = Cooperative, players working together ex. a group of 4 humans have to secure a village with enemy AI

You just made coop sound so boring my friend

How about a team defending the ambushed convoy while awaiting for reinforcements who fight their way to the that team from 1km away. And when they come the chopper extraction isn't possible until nearby AA defenses are eliminated. And then losing that only chopper due to a human mistake with the pilot flying too deep into the enemy territory and getting shot down. So the platoon is now forced to make their way back to base on foot through the enemy territory only to find their home base overrun by the enemy while being very low on ammo and suffering some losses (no respawn).

Coop is much more than just the boring "Clean The Village".

[Beagle 684]

It's all a question of setup of the mission. COOP is always COOP and the factor herby is game mechanics that wont change while in CTI you have a human factor. BUT a CTI mission that is not set up well ist just frustrating...or boring.

The key for a good CTI is to set server remote A.I. to a low number but high skill and ti limit thze income and town count...the less A.I. and the less towns the more you see true PvP on an infanrty level. To makes things harder and ore intersting you can switch camp respawn off, I've seen the result and that result is that Players will really try hard to survive and loosing your Truck with all the spare Ammo in it will get you in trouble: That's CTI in the truest sense...what destroys CTI the most is when you have airquake and all out missile Spam after just 45 minutes because Supply points, money and income are set too high.

[Pain0815 10]

I play CTI and COOP.

For public gaming i suggest cti.

For a clangame i suggest a good scripted teamwork orientated coop mission (not domination, its supporting lone wolfs and single actions).

I suggest this mission : COOP-20-Takistan-Force-(OA)

-1-20 players fully random combined warfare operation

-fully adjustable settings like civillians, amount of IED´s, enemies behaviors, recruitment configs

-realistic artillery system

-optional bf2 project reality like loadout kits

and much much more.

I play this game series since the beginning (opf1), and i never found a better coop mission (its really diffrent every time and got endless replayability and optional settings to fit the mission to your group of players)

And bennys warfare its perfect if you are alone and just want jump in and take part in a big war.

I hope i could help a few new guys with 2 pearls of armas missions. But there are tons of other good game modes out like insurgency, pr for arma and much much more.

And also you can combine this with thousands of great mods like ACE, new Armies or sounds and ai mods

Now my famous last words REMEMBER THEM:

arma is NO GAME, its a big open combined arms combat scenario editor. With campaign and rudimental mp mods as examples for the community whats possible with the editor.

Most see arma as game with a campaign and some shitty mp mods in the package, but it isnt. The campaign and those 2-3 simple mp modes are just examples for the real deal, the core, THE EDITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 25, 2012 by Pain0815