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AlexVestin

Proof of improved animations for mounted weapons? (AKA ArmA steeringwheel revolution)

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UPDATED with this:

Characters hands do stay on MGs when aiming up/down (FIRST PERSON ONLY). It's in the alpha.

Check it out yourself on the bluefor boat with a minigun. Hands/arms move.

No more humvees with gunners holding onto thin and air only when aiming down range.

mgaction.jpg

Goodbye forever, retardedly-stiff-weapon-crew?

Could this technique possibly be used for all mounted weapons now?

Haven't seen anything stated about it.

"Too long, didn't read"?

UPDATED first post with this below:

About a few years back this video was posted for ArmA (1). It might be of interest:

Watch this part of the video:

Now that inverse kinematics IS supported, you'd just have to stick the hands to the handles, and if possible, feet to two pre-defined spots in the interior.

I am fairly certain that more than just the feets move in ToH. I believe the knees bends a tiny bit amount too when using the pedals.

Thereby it should all be possible with the skeleton/animations to have both arms and legs bend.

A visual improvement to this area of the game even deals with the problem of gunners "hiding" inside the helicopter,

even though they should have to stick their head out a bit to be able to aim, as IRL.

Edited by AlexVestin

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i don't see what you are talking about. the model might as well still be in a static position where they rotate with the weapon(as it is currently done now with ArmA2). a picture wouldn't really show anything to support your assumption. until i see video, i will expect the animations for mounted weapons to be unchanged.

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Doesn't seem so. Just like many A2 anims for static weapons, it kind of works when there is no elevation of the barrel involved, once you aim up\down either to hands stand where they are or the whole unit sinks into the ground (static weapons, not turrets). He also seems to be "floating".

And yes, they didn't stated anything about it yet. Hope they don't go with the easy way and only implement remote controled turrets.... :j:

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Dynamo;2235295']i don't see what you are talking about. the model might as well still be in a static position where they rotate with the weapon(as it is currently done now with ArmA2). a picture wouldn't really show anything to support your assumption. until i see video' date=' i will expect the animations for mounted weapons to be unchanged.[/quote']

You seem to understand exactly what kind of an major improvement I'm referring to.

And yes, it might only be a static animation. Ofcourse I'll be fully convinced too once there's a video, but another picture of a mounted weapon might settle it.

Doesn't seem so. Just like many A2 anims for static weapons, it kind of works when there is no elevation of the barrel involved, once you aim up\down either to hands stand where they are or the whole unit sinks into the ground (static weapons, not turrets). He also seems to be "floating".

Why does it not seem so? They seem to have the technology now.

They can even make characters grab the mag, pull it out, insert a new mag and cock the lever afterwards with their current animation system.

There's no real elevation displayed in the pic, that's true, but I thought he seemed to be twisting a bit much for a static animation. Maybe not. Just speculations :)

I'm quite sceptical about him actually moving his legs as he turns, but the arms should be possible. If steeringwheels can force the arms to stick, mounted weapons should be possible too.

It has been done perfectly before as far back as in BF2. I know that's not a completely valid argument this time, though.

About him floating. I think it looks slightly like he's just missing his shadow.

Edited by AlexVestin

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I know they have the tech now (about time!) but that pic is old and IIRC not even the ground animations were quite implemented.

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I hate the pick-up dshkm animation. "Stick your bum out boys"...

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I hate the pick-up dshkm animation. "Stick your bum out boys"...

You talkin' 'bout the HMG gunner anims? Yeah, I can't stand those blokes mounting the HMGs and sticking their wee arses out to get hit by passing lorries.

Edited by Laqueesha

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I hope you be right, now lets check the video where they show the fast boat

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The technology itself I think it was available in A2 already, IK (Inverse Kinematics), the question is if it will be used for such animations...

When I look at the A3 vehicles they seem to have "removed" most of the mounted weapons by computer controlled ones, and that seems to be the way BI is handling this area of animations...

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Animations?

Static weapons:

Are magically immune to damage from explosions

Introduce other bizarre wounding inaccuracies

Track targets like vehicles instead of infantry

Are prohibitively stupid compared to other AI

Have a uselessly short engagement and spotting range

Don't know how to desert a depleted weapon and don't always reload

And then way down here we have the not-actually-important problem of them looking silly. Let's stop picking from the bottom of the list, shall we?

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Because they are mutually exclusive and devs should pick only one problem to address. :j:

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Because they are mutually exclusive and devs should pick only one problem to address. :j:

Because there are limited resources and there are more threads hounding after eye candy than serious discussions of problems with core game mechanics... and then ArmA 3 promos that revolve around lighting improvements with barely anything about AI, and admissions of no progress on gamebreakers like grass visibility.

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The technology itself I think it was available in A2 already, IK (Inverse Kinematics), the question is if it will be used for such animations...

When I look at the A3 vehicles they seem to have "removed" most of the mounted weapons by computer controlled ones, and that seems to be the way BI is handling this area of animations...

I have noticed the lack of crew-served weapons. No footage of any at all so far.

And thank you, I was trying to remember what it was called. "Inverse Kinematics". I just couldn't remember.

This area with animations might need some improvement, and not just only for the visual aspect of the game.

Saw one of your pics, Smurf, that shows this problem (as noted, very small problem out of many with mounted weapons) quite clearly:

53835712.jpg

I hope you don't mind me posting it here.

Because there are limited resources and there are more threads hounding after eye candy than serious discussions of problems with core game mechanics.

It's, as an example, quite hard trying to hit one of these gunners when they're completely safe inside a CH-47, while they're still able to look around outside. Even in firstperson.

Static weapons: .. (listed problems)

If I were to shorten your list by removing all AI related issues, it's not as bad.

Are magically immune to damage from explosions

Introduce other bizarre wounding inaccuracies

Rest of it I see as AI related.

Wounding inaccuracies are something I can't say I've experienced, but I can picture it happening.

I haven't been so much into Take On Helicopters, but I have played the demo and I do know they've started using animations for getting in and also using Inverse Kinematics to have the pilots use the pedals, throttle and stick.

Can it be modded yet with new helicopters and new Inverse Kinematics values for where what bodypart sticks to what pedal?

One way to magically improve this area would be to have their whole upper body depend on Inverse Kinematics a whole lot more. The hands could stick to the MG, but the rest of the upperbody including arms could depend only on the head position. That way, TrackIR could theoreticly be used to move your upper body around slightly. Not just your firstperson camera. Since the body + head would move, you'd be ably to actually crouch down a little when using the roof mounted MG on a vehicle.

Edited by AlexVestin

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Because there are limited resources and there are more threads hounding after eye candy than serious discussions of problems with core game mechanics... and then ArmA 3 promos that revolve around lighting improvements with barely anything about AI, and admissions of no progress on gamebreakers like grass visibility.

First of all, the only "limited resource" that they have now is time which was expanded a bit (good decision IMO). BI is no longer that little studio that we used to know, now they have the moneyZ and the people as this is the biggest project tackled by them (Im not even counting other projects and BI Simulations). With CIT and community made walkarounds for some of these problems, we can only hope for the best.

That candy eye of yours is catching up with industry standards. Last decade standards!

______

From where the hell you took that pic? oO

OFC you can use it.

Edited by Smurf

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Err... no.

Time is ALWAYS extremely limited, and they have nowhere near the financial or manpower resources of a AAA studio. Scarcity rules the day.

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That candy eye of yours is catching up with industry standards. Last decade standards!
That's pretty much been the story of ARMA for years, and the issues with ARMA 3 AI has already been talked about by InstaGoat... as for "admissions of no progress on gamebreakers"... gee, not lying if that's the case? Honesty's nice in the game industry.

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Hi maturin,

Are magically immune to damage from explosions

Introduce other bizarre wounding inaccuracies

But still, improving how the animations look/feel isn't really connected to that, so I agree with the OP that the BI Animators should take a look at how these are done, unless you want to put Animation Experts dealing with heavy engine programming...

Track targets like vehicles instead of infantry

Are prohibitively stupid compared to other AI

Have a uselessly short engagement and spotting range

Don't know how to desert a depleted weapon and don't always reload

Again, these are really things animators cannot "fix" or make it happen, these are strictly Artificial Intelligence problems...

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From where the hell you took that pic? oO

OFC you can use it.

Stumbled upon it on an old page in the screenshots thread! :)

I'm quite sure it was you who posted it.

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Hi, a dude released some UH60s where the door gunners followed the M134s, rotating only the upper torso and arms when moving 'em to the sides and moved only the arms when they were aiming up or down, it seemed odd on this last case as they didn't tilt the body or flexionate the knees; let's hope that BIS has taken care of this issue this time, it'll add much more inmersion to the game. Let's C ya

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Hi, a dude released some UH60s where the door gunners followed the M134s, rotating only the upper torso and arms when moving 'em to the sides and moved only the arms when they were aiming up or down, it seemed odd on this last case as they didn't tilt the body or flexionate the knees; let's hope that BIS has taken care of this issue this time, it'll add much more inmersion to the game. Let's C ya

I remember that, saw the video many years ago on youtube, it was Sakura Chan's work, wasn't it? Can't find it now on youtube.

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I believe you're talking about this video that was released:

Watch this part of the video:

Only that is a HUGE improvement. It is possible to make it look a bit better than what BIS currently has, as proved.

If they would take the time to do these things themselfs, this visual aspect of the game would improve a lot. Minor other improvements too.

Edited by AlexVestin

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I believe you're talking about this video that he released:

Watch this part of the video:

Only that is a HUGE improvement. It is possible to make it look a bit better than what BIS currently has, as proved.

If they would take the time to do these things themselfs, this visual aspect of the game would improve a lot. Minor other improvements too.

Very nice improvement :)

But I think there's no actual inverse kinematics going on there, rather an imaginative use of attachTo or something similar, as the actual pose is not affected, only the position and orientation.

I mean, it's still a remarkable effect, but I'd bet if you could see the whole body you would see the limitation. Still better than default limitations though, I would definitely prefer this implementation :)

Edited by DMarkwick

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But I think there's no actual inverse kinematics going on there, rather an imaginative use if attachTo or something similar, as the actual pose is not affected, only the position and orientation.

There's definetly NO inverse kinematics going on there. Static model and animation moving and tilting only, still looks tons better from the outside atleast!

That solution even deals with the problem of them "hiding" inside the helicopter, even though they should have to stick their head out a bit to be able to aim as IRL.

Now that inverse kinematics IS supported, you'd just have to stick the hands to the handles, and if possible, feet to two pre-defined spots in the interior.

I am fairly certain that more than just the feets move in ToH. I believe the knees bends a tiny bit amount too when using the pedals. Thereby it should all be possible with the skeleton/animations to have both arms and legs bend. IF they decide to work on such details that is. I'd be thrilled.

Edited by AlexVestin

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One thing that'd also be fixed would be the fact that you can see your neckhole with a widened FoV (~85) in sight mode.

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I believe you're talking about this video that he released:

You mean she* ;)

And there was very recently talk about gunner animations recently in a thread somewhere around here...I'll try looking for it and maybe post back

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