meshcarver 12 Posted August 31, 2012 Hi all, I'm starting to model some addons buildings for ARMA2, and was wondering if there's a central resource anywhere that shows things like single doorway dimensions or window heights etc for crouching behind for cover etc..? Other examples would be: Doorway height/width/thickness Window bottom height. Room minimum ceiling height etc... Is there anywhere that has all this kind of information covered and accessible please, I cannot find any reference to it at all? Thanks chaps, Marc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jagheterjan 10 Posted August 31, 2012 No such list exists afaik, but using the BIki entry for the sample character's dimensions here: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Soldier_model_proportions and the ArmA sample character itself here: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Sample_Models it should be fairly easy to work out the correct dimensions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted August 31, 2012 Cheers Jagheterjan, That was a quick reply! :D That's very helpful, but I should've mentioned in the OP- is there a set height that some modelling vets adhere to when they create things like windows and doors..? Like a universal "safe gameplayable" set of figures please..? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jagheterjan 10 Posted August 31, 2012 No idea, never did any buildings for ArmA and like I wrote before, I highly doubt such list exists. If you check the first link you'll notice how the character's LOS above the imaginary rifle is exactly one meter above ground when the player is kneeling and about 1,4 meters when standing. If you model accordingly and allow for a couple centimeters of clearance between the sill and the muzzle on the up axis, there shouldn't be a problem. The rest is eyeballing plausible dimensions and taking artistic liberties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted August 31, 2012 Thanks again Jaghetejan..! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted August 31, 2012 The average window in uk is 120cm x120cm and set 1 meter off the floor. Floor to ceiling height is usual 240 cm the length of a sheet of drywall hope that helps. Doorways should be at 1 meter wide for arma as real life door frames are smaller more like 78cm x 198cm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robster 11 Posted August 31, 2012 This is an interesting matter... If object is under 50 cm height, geometry sometimes do not work at all... 120 - 80 cm seems to be a good choice to fire standing up... if a wall is less than 30 cms may not work either... too thin try to make a bit bigger hallways, corridors and doorways... because when they are too stretched movement turn to be awckward and clunky... and we want a soldier that runs fluently all over the place... simulation does not mean a lack of fast paced action ;) for the rest of stuff just use standard measures... in Chile we have around 230 - 240 cms for ceilings... 200 - 210 cms height for doors... etc... Actually I guess that collision engine might miss some info regarding coords between objects, and that's why sometimes geometries don't work as expected... A classic example is a rocket going through a vehicle without hitting it... it seems to happen because speed steps on rocket doesn't match it's actual geometry size... and that's why some experienced modellers do advice regarding bigger geo lods for these kind of stuff... Another example might be killing rocks... when you stand up over one rock model and you magically die... I guess that happens when you mess around default size of model... try to catch for a big BIS rock or boulder model and then make it tinier... you might see how geometries start to fail at some point... Saludos! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4600 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) The average window in uk is 120cm x120cm and set 1 meter off the floor.Floor to ceiling height is usual 240 cm the length of a sheet of drywall hope that helps. Doorways should be at 1 meter wide for arma as real life door frames are smaller more like 78cm x 198cm. You lads in UK have a bit smaller dimensions. :) I would advise against using those in Arma. Hi all,I'm starting to model some addons buildings for ARMA2, and was wondering if there's a central resource anywhere that shows things like single doorway dimensions or window heights etc for crouching behind for cover etc..? Other examples would be: Doorway height/width/thickness Window bottom height. Room minimum ceiling height etc... Is there anywhere that has all this kind of information covered and accessible please, I cannot find any reference to it at all? Thanks chaps, Marc Let me bring up the architect within (after all i spent 6 years in school for that license and been practicing for quite a while ;) : BI uses default european architectural values and dimensions. All the dimensions should be in meters in O2 (this is quite important). Those are: - 90 cm for doors width, 210 cm heigh for the average doors, 100 cm width for entrance doors, 70-80 cm width for secondary rooms and restrooms. - 90 cm parapet for windows (dimension between floor level and the start of the window). Of course the parapet can be be lower (as in 0 cm, 50 cm - some standards) as well as heigher (120 cm, 150 cm etc) - window height between 120 cm (should end up the same heigh as the door = 210 cm) and 140-150 cm. (considering 120 cm window height) with a beam of 45 cm above it, out 15 cm being the floor slab (this is for concrete structure buildings) - windows width from 70 cm to 150 cm. - clear height to ceiling around 240-300 cm. It depends a lot of the type of building you want/ plan on creating. - stair width min 90 cm. stair tread/step - 25 - 30 cm depth. stair riser between 15 and 18-20 cm. The PLANDEL stair formula is 2xRiser + Tread = 62 -66 cm - walls between min 25 cm and 60-100 cm. Depends on the material you use (ceramic brick walls are 25 cm btw, that is without insulation and finishes). Of course the above are minimum central - european architecture standards. Holland and UK are excluded, those have smaller standards, at least for their traditional buildings (in fact most traditional buildings have smaller openings). As a note, most dimensions used in architecture are multiple of 3, or 30: * chair seating ~40-45 cm * table top ~ 75 cm * bar top 110 cm etc You can find more information about it here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/81883975/Neufert-Architects-Data-ed3 _________ That said, you should push those dimensions a bit higher, so that you don't get stuck in doorways (for human and AI players as well). According to Mondklab: - doors: 110-120 cm width. 210-220 cm height. - Windows doesn't matter all that much. - Stair width should be as described above, same goes for ramp. - Wall width 30 cm or more. Edited September 1, 2012 by PuFu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted September 1, 2012 Wow..! This is some great guide lines for a beginner here- thank you all very much for this. At least I now know roughly what to aim for... I also suppose, it's best to model some examples in, then test them before uv unwrapping to see how it works/feels... Cheers guys..! Marc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted November 14, 2012 Hi guys, Just reigniting this with an image I created to ask if these measurements I included would be FINE as a standard for structures to use in my Stalker map? http://www.flickr.com/photos/86890612@N02/8184763507/in/photostream/ I'm going off what you wrote Pufu..! Marc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4600 Posted November 14, 2012 Yeah those dimensions are the norms in real life for most europe anyways. But you should push them a bit, so that you don't end up with characters stuck. Mondklab did the same: 1. Doors - 110 cm width, 220 height (keeping a similar proportion to the average 90/210) 2. Room height: 250 - 300 should do 3. Windows : 90 or100 parapet and 110 or 120 height window. The width minimum shoul indeed be 70 cm, but also could be 80/90/100/110/120 in a single leaf, and 120 to whatever in multiple leafs. A leaf shouldn't really be smaller than 60 cm and not bigger than 120 All of the above are general guidelines really, but it depends on the style you want to replicate. As an example I have recently completed a project at the studio i work at where the house has a 3 m by 1.5 pivot front door and a exterior sliding glass wall of 3m height by ~7 width ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Cheers PuFU, would you reckon that 25cm thickness for walls is ok yes? As a working minimum..? I've just been inside the little guard house at the gate by the south entrance to the NW airfield, and the walls are about 5 cms thick by the look of it..? What is the reasons for having to have thick walls, otherwise it will cause collision problems or something..? Also, is there a rule for the bottom of structures/house, as when placed on the terrain, do they need about 25cms added to the bottom in case the terrain is uneven and you'll see the bottom of the model? What about a step..? A single concrete step? Could you let me know a good solid working dimension please PuFu as there are too many examples aroudn and it's making my head spin lol..! ;) Also, what is a "leaf"..? Believe me I've checked online but cannot find any ref to it..? Is it the size of a single window section or something? Edited November 15, 2012 by meanmachine1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) think any thing smaller than 15cm wont work sure i read it some where for geometry the step depends on what type of building you want mountain house = 4-5 meters town building on flat ground =1-2 meters from what ive seen when building terrains Edited November 15, 2012 by SmokeDog3PARA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted November 15, 2012 Cheers Smoke, I've seen a little green windowless sentry guard tin building though, and its walls seem about 5 cms thick..!?!?? There's one by the NW airfield... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted November 15, 2012 not sure on that 1 ive seen a double plane mapped as a railing but not sure how the geo was done for it get the sample models from arma and have a look through them for ref. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4600 Posted November 16, 2012 Cheers PuFU,would you reckon that 25cm thickness for walls is ok yes? As a working minimum..? 25cm is indeed a minimum you should be using for a brick/concrete building (in fact the wall is thiker, depends on the type of the wall, but adding paint, insulation etc etc it usually gets around 35 irl). I've just been inside the little guard house at the gate by the south entrance to the NW airfield, and the walls are about 5 cms thick by the look of it..? What is the reasons for having to have thick walls, otherwise it will cause collision problems or something..?have a look over arma1 samples. Not colission, but rather penetration irc.Also, is there a rule for the bottom of structures/house, as when placed on the terrain, do they need about 25cms added to the bottom in case the terrain is uneven and you'll see the bottom of the model? this was answered in the other thread you made. What about a step..? A single concrete step? Could you let me know a good solid working dimension please PuFu as there are too many examples aroudn and it's making my head spin lol..! ;) the step in arma is made for placing purposes. In real life, it is advisable to have a minimum of 3 steps (~50 cm) between different floor levels. A single one might lead to tripping (not the case here obviously). For buildings, most of the time the ground floor level is anywhere between 50cm and 1m higher than the terrain level, or more. Of course there are exceptions, but reasons behind range from water infiltrations, to being able to open the front door in winter times when the snow could gather around and block it, to people on the street not being able to see quite everything inside the house. Also, what is a "leaf"..? Believe me I've checked online but cannot find any ref to it..? Is it the size of a single window section or something? oh, my bad here, a lost in translation case: what i meant is sill or casing. i'll make a quick sketch tomorrow i guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robster 11 Posted November 16, 2012 You can make a thin wall at ResLOD (i.e. = 15 cms) but GeoLOD must be bigger (i.e. = 30 cms)... almost nobody will notice the trick... cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ceeeb 147 Posted November 16, 2012 What about a step..? A single concrete step? Could you let me know a good solid working dimension please PuFu as there are too many examples aroudn and it's making my head spin lol..! ;)? In Australia, the "standard" dimensions for steps in a flight of stairs is 230mm going by 200mm rise. For single steps, between 150 and 300 is acceptable, but as Pufu says, single steps can be trip hazards and are avoided where possible. My profession is industrial structural design, rather than domestic, but the rules are the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted November 16, 2012 standard uk house walls are 300mm 100mm each for both skins of brickwork and blockwork\timber frame 100mm for cavity also most new builds are designed for disabled wheel chair users no steps no risen door ceil they have a run away drain at ground level and now door frames are wider to get access It used to be 2 bricks =150mm above ground was your damp coarse and floor level but it depends what and where your building it i've been on jobs that have needed very deep footings 2-3 meters below ground level with steels to support the block work depends on what the foundation is made of chalk rock sand clay but thank god they banned 9inch concrete blocks here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted November 16, 2012 @robster, thanks man, thats what i thought but no-one mentioned it lol..! In ARMA2 theres even really thin looking sheds you can go into, or tin shacks and i was thinking it'd be silly to make these walls 30 cms thick- perhaps i should've said i was talking about reslod... My bad. @pufu, smoke and ceeeb, Cheers guys, my main concern here is the size of a single step as a great standard to be used in game. So if i make a flight, i know exactly how tall each one should be and how much depth it has. I know there wont be a definite standard, but does one of you know a pretty well used one for in game please? What does the collision (geolod) look like for a stair, is it a smooth ramp or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robster 11 Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) you're going too far on steps... i've never seen anybody around asking about these details before... basically steps are meant to work on resLOD and for getting characters climbing you must use a roadway LOD, a plane to walk over... roadway for stairs look like a ramp... here you can see a geo lod corresponding to an octagon platform shape with stairs that suit an heli pad... those ramps are stairs in res lod... if you are patient enough you might read this to get more tips regarding proper geo lods... in my experience geo lods are difficult to grasp when beginning until you understand oxygen logics and then you get quick results... do not burn your brain though... you are moving quite faster... saludos! EDIT: I don't want to provide rancid advice, but stairs have never been attended here... you may look at any soldier in-game climbing ladders and then you will see arms grasping empty space... and that's definitely not modding but official development... so you might become a truly hero in armaverse if you manage to match character animations with steps on stairs and ladders... something that nobody has gotten before afaik... you know, who is gonna care about those details ???? chabela! Edited November 16, 2012 by Robster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4600 Posted November 16, 2012 @robster, thanks man, thats what i thought but no-one mentioned it lol..! In ARMA2 theres even really thin looking sheds you can go into, or tin shacks and i was thinking it'd be silly to make these walls 30 cms thick- perhaps i should've said i was talking about reslod... My bad.@pufu, smoke and ceeeb, Cheers guys, my main concern here is the size of a single step as a great standard to be used in game. So if i make a flight, i know exactly how tall each one should be and how much depth it has. I know there wont be a definite standard, but does one of you know a pretty well used one for in game please? What does the collision (geolod) look like for a stair, is it a smooth ramp or something? hate to quote myself, but: stair width min 90 cm. stair tread/step - 25 - 30 cm depth. stair riser between 15 and 18-20 cm. The PLANDEL stair formula is 2xRiser + Tread = 62 -66 cm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mondkalb 1087 Posted November 16, 2012 If you intend to make a building with stairs: Plan the entire building on a piece of paper first (better: AutoCAD). I usually ended up with the most retarded stairs before I started planning my buildings prior to actually starting them. Regarding the dimensions I fully agree with what was said here. Always blow up the sizes a bit to avoid player units being stuck. I found that 110cm wide and 220cm high door openings are perfect for the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted November 16, 2012 listen to mondkalbs advice a quick and easy way is use google sketchup for house plans its got a layout for this which is easy to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meshcarver 12 Posted November 16, 2012 Damn this community is good..! ;) Thanks guys, I very much appreciate all these pointers and advice. Aye, Ill listen to Mondkalb, especially on the sizes of doors, as I want to make sure all my structures are AI friendly. Speaking of AI friendly structures, is there anything else that needs bearing in mind so as to make all structures good for AI..? Ill thoroughly plan my buildings before building yes, blocking everything out first, make sure it conforms to a good set of rules, then start in on detailing. Sorry to go on about it Pufu, but i want to get a good mean for the stair dimensions, as once i get it, ill utilise the same dimensions in all buildings, so theres the potential for quick mix-n-matches available to me to cut workload. If I said Ill go with: 25cm depth 20cm high (riser) Is that an ok dimension to use? Alright guys, thanks again for your helping me. Marc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites