Annoying visual issues

[doveman 7]

All these were recorded using Vanilla CO Lite.

In this first video, there's wierd flickering. I don't know if that's meant to be shadows or some light-source bug

In this second video, the trees get fuller/thinner when I zoom in/out. I first noticed this when just walking around and running the benchmark but it's easier to show like this

In this third video, again you can see the problem with the trees when zooming, but also details on the buildings appearing/disappearing. It's most noticeable on the building on the left to the right of the tower and the building on the right to the left of the tree.

I tried increasing the view distance from 3000 to 7000 and it didn't make any difference, so this isn't a view distance thing. I hope there's a fix as it's very distracting seeing these glitches all the time and ruins the immersion.

My config is

language="English";
adapter=-1;
3D_Performance=93750;
Resolution_Bpp=32;
Resolution_W=1920;
Resolution_H=1080;
refresh=60;
winX=16;
winY=32;
winW=1280;
winH=1024;
winDefW=1280;
winDefH=1024;
Render_W=1920;
Render_H=1080;
FSAA=1;
postFX=3;
GPU_MaxFramesAhead=1000;
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=3;
HDRPrecision=8;
lastDeviceId="";
localVRAM=2129379328;
nonlocalVRAM=2147483647;
vsync=0;
AToC=0;
PPAA=2;
PPAA_Level=2;
Windowed=0;
FXAA=0;

and

tripleHead=0;
anisoFilter=4;
TexQuality=3;
TexMemory=4;
useWBuffer=0;
shadingQuality=10;
shadowQuality=3;
maxSamplesPlayed=128;
sceneComplexity=300000;
viewDistance=3053.7251;
terrainGrid=50;
gamma=1;
brightness=1;
fovTop=0.75;
fovLeft=1.3333334;

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

These issues aren't anything new I get them too, I suggest report them to the bugtracker if their not already reported.

[chrisb 196]

Have you tried it without your fxaa on, I see your using it via the PPAA (2 &2) settings and I think it may be that regards the tree’s. In life we can’t zoom in so the idea is as we walk towards the tress’s in game they change gradually (not as noticeable), but when we zoom in (in-game) they give a bit of a weird effect, having to adjust quickly. I use ppaa settings the same as you have them but its a lot less pronounced, but I do get the same thing only very slightly when zooming in (doesn’t bother me, but as said its not as bad), however on the other hand I use a different FOV to you.

The buildings issue could be related to the above, I have not seen that, but it could be down to that, quality of image changing quickly when zoomed in against approaching more slowly, therefore less noticeable.

I would just try ppaa 0 & 0, and using a low aa in-game, to see if it’s the same..

The shadows thing or whatever it is, seems to be a bug, to me anyhow..

Your configs seem to say your chasing fps a little ?

(I know we all tend to do that in the series)

[doveman 7]

Hi ChrisB

Thanks, I'll try it without fxaa. I was using SMAA and no AA until recently but switched to FXAA and low AA after seeing a recommendation for these settings.

I'm not sure about chasing fps but I did have problems with ATOC=7 and was advised to set it to 0. As I say, I had AA disabled until recently as I read that was a FPS killer, but I think it's alright on Low. I put terraindetail on very low to get rid of the grass which the AI can see through anyway. Anything else you think I've got too low?

[Ekko 1]

There are four things bothering me with the visuals in arma and arma 2:

Hopefully these will be fixed in arma 3 :cool:

Glitches first!

1. The shadows from trees, houses and other objects(mostly trees) will disappear (I've seen this many times when the sun is going down or up)

2. When you are inside farms, houses or dark areas, random light will appear here and there when you look around, it depends on where you are standing and turning.(you know what im talking about). It's really distracting and destroys the experience of going inside to take cover and stuff.

Am I the only one with these problems?

3. This is a common problem to many games, perhaps because it's hard to implement to games nowadays, but this would be really realstic visually: there isn't dynamic shadows on terrain and mountains(hills aswell). The ground should be able to cast shadows like any other objects, and in my opinion this would really be a big visual step for the engine.

4. My last concern is the level of detail or model trasition which i call it. We see this in all games, some are really great at this and then it's really hard to see when an object changes it's form when we get closer. Others are really, really bad. In arma this is a real problem(its really bad sometimes!). It's really easy to see when an object changes it's form because it just pops up all the time the closer we get. In my opinion a fading method would really fix this and it wouldn't be so distracting. Houses and grass are my biggest consern here.

Other than that the visuals are really great, and better than most games. Im an artist so I always pay attention to these little things, and im proabably being a little too picky about it aswell, but I would really like it if these things were fixed in arma 3(just saying). And in the end I would proabably brag about the game too much if the visuals improved anyway. I would own my friends in a debate about the best wargames of all time!

All that is left then is the AIs...

Went overboard on my first post :p

Edited July 23, 2012 by Ekko

[chrisb 196]

Hello doveman

I run these settings;

Terrain Detail ‘V/high

Object detail ‘very low’ to get clutter away, if there is going to be a lot going on, i.e. lots of ai

AA ‘low’

PPAA (fxaa) 2 & 2 good settings other than the problem you may be having with it. Performance far better than smaa, imo.

Shadow 'High' as no discernable difference to v/high

3D_Performance=80000;

AToC=6;

PPAA, as said 2&2, in-game I have aa set to low, but get a high to very high look with using fxaa and the aa set ‘low’

Summer version of the same shot/place if anyone is interested.. 'sum_rep' mod works on other islands, not just chernarus, not all though, adds a little colour and greener grass..

Mousesmoothing=30

Scene_complexity=150000;

My fov is more or less the same but 0.75 & 1.2

Just tweaking, we all have to do it...:)

---------- Post added at 00:03 ---------- Previous post was at 23:56 ----------

There are four things bothering me with the visuals in arma and arma 2:

Hopefully these will be fixed in arma 3 :cool:

Glitches first!

1. The shadows from trees, houses and other objects(mostly trees) will disappear (I've seen this many times when the sun is going down or up)

2. When you are inside farms, houses or dark areas, random light will appear here and there when you look around, it depends on where you are standing and turning.(you know what im talking about). It's really distracting and destroys the experience of going inside to take cover and stuff.

Am I the only one with these problems?

3. This is a common problem to many games, perhaps because it's hard to implement to games nowadays, but this would be really realstic visually: there isn't dynamic shadows on terrain and mountains(hills aswell). The ground should be able to cast shadows like any other objects, and in my opinion this would really be a big visual step for the engine.

4. My last concern is the level of detail or model trasition which i call it. We see this in all games, some are really great at this and then it's really hard to see when an object changes it's form when we get closer. Others are really, really bad. In arma this is a real problem(its really bad sometimes!). It's really easy to see when an object changes it's form because it just pops up all the time the closer we get. In my opinion a fading method would really fix this and it wouldn't be so distracting. Houses and grass are my biggest consern here.

Other than that the visuals are really great, and better than most games. Im an artist so I always pay attention to these little things, and im proabably being a little too picky about it aswell, but I would really like it if these things were fixed in arma 3(just saying). And in the end I would proabably brag about the game too much if the visuals improved anyway. I would own my friends in a debate about the best wargames of all time!

All that is left then is the AIs...

Went overboard on my first post :p

Hello ekko

1/ I don’t have this problem

2/ have seen this from time to time

3/ the terrain does cast shadows, go behind a hill and you go into shadow, if the sun is the other side..

4/ try fxaa for a smoother look to this i.e. PPAA=2 & PPAA_Level=2, of course the problem above might occur for you as well, not sure. There again it may not be that, worth a look at fxaa..

Or is it all just me..;)

Edited July 23, 2012 by ChrisB
added info

[doveman 7]

OK, I made another video with PPAA 0 & 0, on foot, where the building completely changes appearance when taking one step forwards/backwards

I run these settings;

Terrain Detail ‘V/high

Object detail ‘very low’ to get clutter away, if there is going to be a lot going on, i.e. lots of ai

AA ‘low’

PPAA (fxaa) 2 & 2 good settings other than the problem you may be having with it. Performance far better than smaa, imo.

Shadow 'High' as no discernable difference to v/high

Yeah, that's all the same as me.

3D_Performance=80000;

AToC=6;

Mousesmoothing=30

Scene_complexity=150000;

I think 3D_Performance is auto-computed by OA. What setting alters Scene_complexity? I'm not sure what ATOC does but it certainly caused problems for me on 7. You didn't mention what view distance you use, which everyone says is the main thing that affects FPS.

1/ I don’t have this problem

Yeah, I get the disappearing shadows although it might not be the same as what ekko's talking about. Even in the Benchmark there was a ladder leaning on a wall and the shadow of one of the rungs kept flickering on and off. I often notice parts of shadows flickering on and off like this and whilst I imagine it's meant to be an attempt to simulate the light changing as tree branches blow about, frankly it looks ridiculous having parts of shadows switch on and off and it would be more immersive if the shadows didn't do this, as then it wouldn't draw your attention, so you wouldn't be looking at it and going "hmm, shouldn't that shadow be changing as the branches on that tree move about".

[chrisb 196]

OK, I made another video with PPAA 0 & 0, on foot, where the building completely changes appearance when taking one step forwards/backwards

.

Looks like its not the fxaa then, or did you try the tree experiment ?

What beta are you on or don’t you run beta. Is it 1.60 your at or the latest 1.62 and whatever beta it is. I stayed put at 1.60 94444 beta as I changed to the new 1.61 which proved a little troublesome so I reverted back (I had made a full backup, so no big problem), best point backwards was 94444, seems to run very well. What fps are you getting in heavy islands such as Podagorsk shown in the pics I put on, I run at around 65-75 in those shots. It only starts to really effect fps after 70ai have been placed and get into combat, but not a great deal, not more than -10 to -15fps difference. Above 120 or so in combat, then I start to see a real dip starting to happen, so I plan and make missions for my group that don’t exceed this amount in combat at one time. Its just simple planning and mission design we all have to do.

Anyhow, the building thing:

I must admit that’s an odd type of thing, beats me, just glad I don’t see it happening on mine.

The shadow flickering, can't say as I have noticed it, but with it being arma, well, you know..

I set my in-game settings first, then change my configs, i.e. to 80000 on 3D performance.

AToC gives effects to tree’s and grass, fuller more detailed from what I see (aa thing). AToc =6 gives it on all tree’s (arma 2 & OA tree’s) but not on grass, there is far too much needless clutter in the arma series, so I want thinner grass and fuller trees’s. Its all personal pref really.

Scene complexity does dash around a little, best to get your in-game settings done first then alter it afterwards, they should stay put then, I check it from time to time, but if I have been messing in-game with settings it can and does move around. There are a few config settings you can tweak, but best set in-game settings first, come out do your config go back in and see. Testing and tweaking is all part of the fun, well to me it is. A battle to achieve good performance with the best look to the game you can get from your system, of course its all ongoing when using beta's.

I run 2000vd on the ground and 5000-6000 in air combat, I can only have 10000 reasonably when sightseeing in the air, just me and an aircraft. I can raise upto 3500 on the ground without too much, if any, difference in fps. Arma 2 can be better in some circumstances played at around 3000-3500, can help performance (don’t know why, but you know arma) it depends on how many ai are around, but you just don’t need anything above 2000 really, on the ground, imo. If your sniping, handy to have ‘IVD’ (instant view distance) so you can nip in and out of longer view distance without too much trouble.

[domokun 515]

doveman/ChrisB/Ekko: these tweaks might help you:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?85124-ArmA2-OA-%28low%29-performance-issues&p=2081466#post2081466

If you have any proven solutions then I'm interested in updating the guide

Personally I recommend the 94700 beta

[doveman 7]

Hi domokun

I already followed your tips to tweak my config a while ago thanks.

I already used noblur, SAP clutter and GDT Grass and just tried these PROPER mods

RoadsVisibleAtDistance_Visuals_C_ PROPER.pbo

StaticsVisibleAtDistance_Visuals_ C_PROPER.pbo

TreesVisibleAtDistance_Visuals_C_ PROPER.pbo

VehiclesVisibleAtDistance_Visuals _C_PROPER.pbo

but they didn't make any difference, so I guess they only affect the distance at which trees/buildings become visible and do nothing to change the distance at which the more detailed textures appear.

I'm using the 94700 beta myself.

[domokun 515]

Doveman: you're absolutely right about those pbos improving the distance at which certain objects will appear. It may seem fruitless to you but for some, pilots especially, they're vital. As for the other tweaks, I can only hope that they improve the visual experience.

I don't pretend to have a silver bullet that will instantly solve everyone's issues but those tweaks are the fruits of hours of research, consolidation and testing from scores of users.

If you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

[Ekko 1]

Hello ChrisB

1. You can see this problem with the shadows if you try it out in the editor, just remember to set time at 17:00, or any time the sun goes down or up. It will stretch the shadows and thats proabably why it happens, and it all depends on where you are standing and looking(know some people who have the same problem). Try walking down a path with forest around you...

3. I've been in the editor now and placed myself behind a hill so the sun doesn't shine on me, and guess what, most of the time there will be light on me, bushes trees and even buildings. Everything is on very high, but there is no real shadow, but if im at the bottom of a hill in varius places I will get darker and also objects, its like a fake shadow overlay.

I can stand up on the hill and move behind it so the sun don't shine on me and still be as light as standing on the other side of the hill(I just need to go a long way down the hill before it gets dark, not realistic). You might not be aware of this since the shadows from trees can be cast down the hill, and you wouldn't see it, but try for yourself. And btw I know that the surface of the ground will be dark if the sun isn't shining on it :p

Maybe it all depends on what map you are on. I tried in at Utes and a few locations in Chernarus.

4. I went in to arma 2 Oa after patching it and there it was! Fxaa finally. It was a much needed update. :D

[doveman 7]

Doveman: you're absolutely right about those pbos improving the distance at which certain objects will appear. It may seem fruitless to you but for some, pilots especially, they're vital. As for the other tweaks, I can only hope that they improve the visual experience.

I don't pretend to have a silver bullet that will instantly solve everyone's issues but those tweaks are the fruits of hours of research, consolidation and testing from scores of users.

If you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

I don't think the PROPER mods are fruitless, just they don't fix the problem I'm reporting.

As for your other tweaks, as I said I already used them a while ago and I'm sure they have helped a lot, so thanks. Perhaps I'd suggest Very Low for Terrain instead though, simply because AI can see through the grass so it's a bit unfair if the player has their view obstructed by it ;)

[kremator 1064]

The whole system of LOD switching is screwy. I hope they sort it for Arma3 !

[R0adki11 3945]

The whole system of LOD switching is screwy. I hope they sort it for Arma3 !

Not screwy, i find no issue with it. Its improved alot since when i use to play the OFP Demo. Have you tried using any of the latest BETA patches?

[chrisb 196]

Hello ChrisB

And btw I know that the surface of the ground will be dark if the sun isn't shining on it :p

. :D

;)

_____

Understand what you mean, but I think its as near as we are going to get. I make missions for the group I play in and must admit, all the missions I’ve made, at least one for each of the islands available 150ish and its never bothered me (maybe till now, thanks for that :p). However, I started video gaming in the 70’s, nothing cast a shadow in games then.:butbut:

Fxaa has been in the configs for a while now (depending on what patch/beta you were at), they have put in into the in-game settings now, but I have reverted back until everything gets a little more stable, so using it again in the configs. Your right tho great addition..

Few shadows: only jpegs, so sorry for the quality.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/partialshadowcasting.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/shadowcutoffpoint2.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/notcastingashadow.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/castingashadow.jpg/

_____

@domokum

It acts soo differently from pc to pc, you just have to do the best you can for your pc, try anything, it may just work.

However, for mine:

Video Memory = very high.. For me, sorry I know its against the grain but it gives me +5-6fps against = default.

Also v-sync definitely off, stretch the machines legs a little, if you get really high fps watch out for tearing, that or buy a 120hz monitor.

Objects = very low (not always, but if your trying to gain fps in heavy missions, I find it helps)

PP = off, just personal pref and use the PPAA=2, PPAA_level=2, and in-game aa set to ‘low’

Agree with defragging, auto everyday, also closing and keeping an eye on running processes (task manager).

4 cores work pretty well across the board, max mem I have at 2047 (don’t know why, but I have a 2gb card for arma 2, so it seems to work well), never uses more than 800 really.

Few other tweaks as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Edited July 24, 2012 by ChrisB

[doveman 7]

I made some more videos showing the problems.

This first one shows Shadows on High, where you can see bits of the shadow flickering on and off, which looks very strange and I find quite distracting

This is with Shadows on V.High where the flickering isn't so bad but I still find it looks rather strange/artificial

This is with Shadows on Normal. Obviously it's less detailed but I actually find it looks more natural like that (doesn't scream out "Computer generated" to me) and less distracting certainly, so I might try running like that. In this test it didn't seem to make any difference to my FPS whatever setting I put Shadows on but of course that might not be the case in other scenarios.

This is another scene with Shadows on High, where it's very pixellated around the edges and also flickering/shifting a lot.

This is with Shadows on V.High, where it's much better but still noticeably pixellated

This is with Shadows on Normal, where there's no pixellation at all (some artifacts were introduced by youtube compression it seems but the edges are smooth in the original)

So at least with the Shadows I can change the settings to get rid of the annoying glitches.

As for the texture pop-up problem, I feel this is far more serious as it's hard enough to spot the enemy as it is and if things that shouldn't be moving (benches, walls, buildings, etc) are shifting when the player is moving around or zooming/using sights it distracts the player and draws their attention to whatever's changing, which for all the player knows could be an enemy moving about.

I think the problems are apparent enough in these three videos but I'd draw your attention to what I guess are shadows under the benches on the right, that popup when zooming in, in the first video.

Not screwy, i find no issue with it. Its improved alot since when i use to play the OFP Demo. Have you tried using any of the latest BETA patches?

I presume "LOD switching" is what is shown in my videos. Are you saying you don't get this, 'cos if so I'd love to know how you fixed it? As I mentioned before, I'm using beta 94700.

[ahmedjbh 0]

My game has always looked like that youtube video, regardless of beta version or settings, I just that was normal.

Are you saying you can set the game so that you dont notice lod changes?