TPWC AI suppression system

[sixt 26]

just had one of the best firefigths ever in my arma 2 playing period. I played with the following mods: ACE, ASR_AI, GL4 (with suppression, hearing and skills turned off, for no conflicting) Zeus_core_AI_skills, COSLX (Findcover+AI_dogde pbo'es) The newest beta, TPWLOS and TPWSupp.

In a town on Aliabad map i had set 3 squads of iraqi_republican guard squads (playing with lobo's gulfwar mod) synched with the defence module from GL4 and 2 just standing little behind, so that they could be used for reinforcement. My self i gave a USMC(dessert) squad. I put a respawn marker alittle away from town.The mission was to eliminate every enemy unit in the town. i played for ½ hour, but what a fight, initial i set a support grout consisting of 5 units behind so they could lay down suppression fire on the town while i attacked with the rest. The first attack whent bad and i had to retreat, but luckily just lossed 2 marines and got 2 more wounded, the enemy was firmly entrenched behind walls in different building in the town, ducking behind the walls very difficult to kill. when i retreated the iraqis made a counter attack, but luckly my support group got them pinned down, and i could escape without further losses. looking at the map (playing with the debug on i cheated alittle :p ) and found a place on there left flank i could sqeeze in and attack them from behind. The biggest problem was that my men was running low on ammo. so i had to do it fast. So i sneaked in from behind with the rest of my attack group, the 2 wounded i left behind. When i was in place in town a let my support group attack also, hoping that they would gather ammo and weapons on there way into town (ASR_ai ;) ) my plan succeded and cleared the town for every enemy soldier. loosed only two more men in the process. I know it sounded as a easy victory, but it wasn't and only my cheating gave me the upper hand, the way the iraqi counter attacked and was entrenched in the building, with no standing units, and the tactic of suppressing the enemy, it feld very realistic.

So just have to say wauv, thanks for all the work you have done with this :-)

Robert

[tpw 2315]

That is wrong. Since tpwcas.sqf calls for call compile preprocessFileLineNumbers "tpwcas_mainloop.sqf"; you have specified that the scripts are in the missions root folder! They have to be places directly into the missions folder or it will not work.....................................................................

My tip for you is to put the scripts in a folder called tpwcas\*SCRIPTS GO HERE* and then add that path to all scripts when they call for the other scripts. This way it will work and the mission makers wont have seven extra scripts in the root mission folder.

This is how it has to be done now:

missions\Co@04killtime10\*tpw scripts go here*

This is better:

missions\Co@04killtime10\tpwcas\*tpw scripts go here*

Just thought I should give a heads up before people start to unpack the script version and complain that it doesnt work,

You are right, and so am I. If you dump the scripts into the mission directory as per my admittedly glib instructions, not in their own folder, then running tpwcas.sqf will work. Of course if you want them in their own folder then paths will need to be adjusted (and that's actually how i do it on my box). I put the scripts in as a courtesy to mission makers, on the assumption that if they're clever enough to make a mission, they're clever enough to figure out where to put scripts and how to reference them :)

Anyway, I will adjust the instructions shortly. Thanks Pellejones., I appreciate the heads up.

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

just had one of the best firefigths ever in my arma 2 playing period. I played with the following mods: ACE, ASR_AI, GL4 (with suppression, hearing and skills turned off, for no conflicting) Zeus_core_AI_skills, COSLX (Findcover+AI_dogde pbo'es) The newest beta, TPWLOS and TPWSupp.

In a town on Aliabad map i had set 3 squads of iraqi_republican guard squads (playing with lobo's gulfwar mod) synched with the defence module from GL4 and 2 just standing little behind, so that they could be used for reinforcement. My self i gave a USMC(dessert) squad. I put a respawn marker alittle away from town.The mission was to eliminate every enemy unit in the town. i played for ½ hour, but what a fight, initial i set a support grout consisting of 5 units behind so they could lay down suppression fire on the town while i attacked with the rest. The first attack whent bad and i had to retreat, but luckily just lossed 2 marines and got 2 more wounded, the enemy was firmly entrenched behind walls in different building in the town, ducking behind the walls very difficult to kill. when i retreated the iraqis made a counter attack, but luckly my support group got them pinned down, and i could escape without further losses. looking at the map (playing with the debug on i cheated alittle :p ) and found a place on there left flank i could sqeeze in and attack them from behind. The biggest problem was that my men was running low on ammo. so i had to do it fast. So i sneaked in from behind with the rest of my attack group, the 2 wounded i left behind. When i was in place in town a let my support group attack also, hoping that they would gather ammo and weapons on there way into town (ASR_ai ;) ) my plan succeded and cleared the town for every enemy soldier. loosed only two more men in the process. I know it sounded as a easy victory, but it wasn't and only my cheating gave me the upper hand, the way the iraqi counter attacked and was entrenched in the building, with no standing units, and the tactic of suppressing the enemy, it feld very realistic.

So just have to say wauv, thanks for all the work you have done with this :-)

Robert

Awesome! Nice to hear from a satisfied customer.

[pellejones 1]

tpw I just meant that you say "or anywhere you want". That could confuse people :) but yes if they know their way around missions they should figure this out.

Since I only play MP on dedicated with my squad, I'd love to help out in testing the MP version. Just let me know what I/SSG can do.

[RamBoRaideR 1]

we only get Red balls : http://i45.tinypic.com/2h7f62v.jpg (860 kB)

Thanks for the support, we're waiting for an update.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

Also, is there any way to uninstall it correctly? i'm guessing that we're doing something wrong

[orcinus 121]

Also, is there any way to uninstall it correctly? i'm guessing that we're doing something wrong

My guess - either it's still running on the server; or one - maybe more - players are running it; or both. Try this 3-step process, after disconnecting all players:

1. Search the server for tpwc*.*. Delete any & every file that turns up & checks out to be an AI_suppression file.

2. Search your own PC, do the same.

3. Connect yourself (only) to the server & see if any red balls turn up.

[pellejones 1]

we only get Red balls : http://i45.tinypic.com/2h7f62v.jpg (860 kB)

Thanks for the support, we're waiting for an update.

Same for us on Dedicated MP server. Always red balls, no reaction at all from AI when we fire on them.

[tpw 2315]

we only get Red balls : http://i45.tinypic.com/2h7f62v.jpg (860 kB)

Thanks for the support, we're waiting for an update.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

Also, is there any way to uninstall it correctly? i'm guessing that we're doing something wrong

Hmm, judging by the colour, you have 1.01 running. 2.06 has much brighter red. Please follow the instructions kindly posted by Orcinus, there is a 1.01 tpwc_ai_suppress.sqf being executed on either the server or one of the clients.

[fabrizio_t 58]

just had one of the best firefigths ever in my arma 2 playing period. I played with the following mods: ACE, ASR_AI, GL4 (with suppression, hearing and skills turned off, for no conflicting) Zeus_core_AI_skills, COSLX (Findcover+AI_dogde pbo'es) The newest beta, TPWLOS and TPWSupp.

Nice to know. However let me say i think that your are using quite some colliding mods: CfgAISkill config for instance is probably tweaked by both ACE, ASR_AI, ZEUS in different ways.

I don't know which config is picked up, but other ones are discarded.

Probably you would be able to achieve the same result with a more restricted set of mods, with less overhead.

[tpw 2315]

Same for us on Dedicated MP server. Always red balls, no reaction at all from AI when we fire on them.

And I'll state it again, TPWCAS is an SP mod whose performance cannot be vouched for on a dedi server. I'm not going to apologise for this since it's mentioned on the first post, in the readme, and every page or two of this thread.

The per frame event handler that TPWCAS uses to detect bullets does not work on dedi. A replacement is being worked on. And once this is in place, then appropriate visual debugging will be added.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Get BIS to fix the findCover command, then it should be easy to implement, without writing walls of code in it's place.

While you're at it request the IncomingFire EH from VBS as well, I'm sure tpw would like it :D

I don't think findCover will be fixed.

Suma already gave some hints about the matter (and setHideBehind) long time ago, you can read some info in this 3yrs old :( ticket by Solus: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2016.

Suma:

A simple fix of "findCover" and "setHideBehind" is not possible, because a cover is no longer an object, it is a position instead (there are multiple cover points connected with one object).

However there's no need for reimplementing findCover in my opinion.

Some basic findCover-esque routine may be easily scripted with a few lines of code ( see note by Kju with my code at the bottom of same ticket for a very raw example, or just the repro in ticket : https://dev-heaven.net/issues/28311 ).

The problem is that unless we get some forceMove command (hint: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/28319) overriding core AI takes, we won't be able to get any decently reliable functions for AI moving into cover and AI fleeing / withdrawal.

Obviously my subjective 2 cents.

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:36 ----------

And I'll state it again, TPWCAS is an SP mod whose performance cannot be vouched for on a dedi server. I'm not going to apologise for this since it's mentioned on the first post, in the readme, and every page or two of this thread.

The per frame event handler that TPWCAS uses to detect bullets does not work on dedi. A replacement is being worked on. And once this is in place, then appropriate visual debugging will be added.

Yes, we are working on it in bDetect, thanks to Ollem's effort.

We already overcame the per frame execution problem (raw workaround, fix would be BIS task), hope other major problems will be sorted out soon.

Edited July 8, 2012 by fabrizio_T

[sixt 26]

Nice to know. However let me say i think that your are using quite some colliding mods: CfgAISkill config for instance is probably tweaked by both ACE, ASR_AI, ZEUS in different ways.

I don't know which config is picked up, but other ones are discarded.

Probably you would be able to achieve the same result with a more restricted set of mods, with less overhead.

I know, thats why i hat changed the setskill parameter in the userconfig for asr_ai to 0, so it didn't conflict with zeus, i also loaded the zeus_core_ai_skill after both ace and asr, and if i understand right, it overrides them then. For me it gave a boost in the ai. I have played with asr only without zeus, but sometimes it seems that the ai don't acts to your presence if i use only asr, if even tried to stand in front of an enemy, within a few meters without the ai seeing me or sence me. On the same mission i afterward used the zeus skills, and they reacted alot faster. So thats why i use zeus at the moment :-)

[pellejones 1]

And I'll state it again, TPWCAS is an SP mod whose performance cannot be vouched for on a dedi server. I'm not going to apologise for this since it's mentioned on the first post, in the readme, and every page or two of this thread.

The per frame event handler that TPWCAS uses to detect bullets does not work on dedi. A replacement is being worked on. And once this is in place, then appropriate visual debugging will be added.

I am fully aware of this. I only confirmed the other users post. I you read my previous post I said 'is there anyway we can help'. I'm not being a dick or being that irritating guy who doesn't read the first post, I am only trying to help in anyway possible! I am the guy who found the houselights bug...

We always play dedicated MP and want to help this project.

[tpw 2315]

I am fully aware of this. I only confirmed the other users post. I you read my previous post I said 'is there anyway we can help'. I'm not being a dick or being that irritating guy who doesn't read the first post, I am only trying to help in anyway possible! I am the guy who found the houselights bug...

We always play dedicated MP and want to help this project.

Sorry Pellejones, I wasn't accusing you of being a dick, and I absolutely appreciate your help and bug reports, for this and other mods. You just happened to be the post which I chose to reiterate my SP assertions (which I still don't apologise for). I'm very sorry if I have offended you, it was not my intention.

[pellejones 1]

Sorry Pellejones, I wasn't accusing you of being a dick, and I absolutely appreciate your help and bug reports, for this and other mods. You just happened to be the post which I chose to reiterate my SP assertions (which I still don't apologise for). I'm very sorry if I have offended you, it was not my intention.

No worries! Now lets help you make this 'addon' perfect!

[tadanobu 1]

Hi again,

Sorry I've been unable to test much over the weekend. But this morning I tried coslx (rather than Asr) and found that if you have tpwc debug enabled in latest 2.06 pbo, you will again get the increase in phantom civs after the first casualty is inflicted leading of course to game suffering crippling slowdown. I tested it a number of times and believe the conflict arises through the coslx wound system or its dependencies. With debug disabled the problem does not occur and I have been able to run a number of games without any problems. However, I'm using only a select part of the coslx system (the ai and animation enhancements), so you might find other errors and conflicts if you choose to do so. But I'm quite certain at this time tpwc debug (please note: DEBUG MODE ONLY) and the coslx wound system seem to conflict. There are other systems in coslx that I'm not personally interested in using or testing, but anyone interested in using coslx may find this of use as a jumping off point for their own testing. As a side note I have been using dapman's ai first aid sytem (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=13841&highlight=DAPMAN) alongside tpwc from the beginning with no errors whatsoever, even with tpwc debug enabled.

[orcinus 121]

Hi again,

Sorry I've been unable to test much over the weekend. But this morning I tried coslx (rather than Asr) and found that if you have tpwc debug enabled in latest 2.06 pbo, you will again get the increase in phantom civs after the first casualty is inflicted leading of course to game suffering crippling slowdown. I tested it a number of times and believe the conflict arises through the coslx wound system or its dependencies. With debug disabled the problem does not occur and I have been able to run a number of games without any problems. However, I'm using only a select part of the coslx system (the ai and animation enhancements), so you might find other errors and conflicts if you choose to do so. But I'm quite certain at this time tpwc debug (please note: DEBUG MODE ONLY) and the coslx wound system seem to conflict. There are other systems in coslx that I'm not personally interested in using or testing, but anyone interested in using coslx may find this of use as a jumping off point for their own testing. As a side note I have been using dapman's ai first aid sytem (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=13841&highlight=DAPMAN) alongside tpwc from the beginning with no errors whatsoever, even with tpwc debug enabled.

I haven't seen this, using the COSLX subset I described earlier in the thread with tpwc AIS 2.06b (debug on), asr_ai v1.15.1_test5, & TPW_LOS_100.

Exactly which COSLX files are you using? - your post is a little confusing as you refer to "only... the ai and animation enhancements" yet later mention slx_wounds (use of which, incidentally, means DAPMAN will be deactivated - by design). Are you running any other mods/addons?

[tadanobu 1]

Ok to clear it up a little: Read "However, I'm using only a select part of the coslx system..." as "However, apart from wounds system, I'm using only a select part of the coslx system..." Did not use dapman while using coslx. Realised it would be redundant as coslx wounds probably had similar function. While using coslx, only other mod was tpwc.

Wanted to try out find cover, dodge, no-autoengage, all files prefixed as slx_anim..., but did not want to use such files as melee, tank smoke, optics and other such files. Not going to list them all because there are simply too many. I noticed the civ count climbing with tpwc debug set to 1 and went through a process of elimination until I narrowed it down to the wounds system. I could be wrong but from my observation with and without debug enabled, with and without wounds system included in the coslx mod I had consistent results over a number of trials that satisfied me that I would not include wounds from coslx for my own personal use and have now returned to using dapman's mod along with those coslx files I'm happy with. It is very possible that I hadn't included something else from coslx that the wounds system depends upon in which case there might be a problem there. But for the problem only to show itself when I activated and deactivated debug in tpwc, it seems unlikely.

---------- Post added at 17:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

Right, I have just retested with tpwc and the entire coslx mod (all files not just a select few, which admittedly might have left out some necessary dependencies). Nothing else.

Civ count increases above expected values with debug enabled after the first casualty. Removed the 6 files prefixed slx_wounds I thought to be the problem in earlier tests and the civ count does not increase above expected values and then decreases as casualties are taken. Put wounds back in, civs increase again. Took wounds out once more, civ numbers again do not increase. Set debug to 0 and the civ count does not increase with wounds included in coslx. Seems to suggest there might be some incompatibilty between tpwc DEBUG and coslx wounds. Since I'm interested in only a small part of coslx, then I'm not testing it any further unless what I'm using throws up something strange.

Edited July 9, 2012 by tadanobu

[orcinus 121]

I just used your counter with an alpha port to Podagorsk of Flashpoint v1.20; 8 groups/side (100-120 units) and the same list of addons as before.

Within a minute or so the civ count climbs to ~450, and wobbles around there - sometimes as low as ~400, max I saw was 551 (and that will include a number of real - spawned - civ units). It varies with the amount of fighting (as one would expect). In 5 short trials (5-20 minutes) I never saw a continually climbing total.

There is nothing inherent in COSLX_wounds & the necessary dependencies that conflicts with tpwc, nor in ORC_SLX_wounds, nor in the other COSLX files I've been using. If you can't be bothered to list the SLX files used, I for one won't bother investigating the issue.

[tadanobu 1]

Isn't a case of can't be bothered but constraints on time I have available to test. I noticed what I thought might be a problem and, because others want to use coslx and it's been pointed out that there might be conflicts between mixing it and other mods with tpwc, asr etc, I thought I'd share my observations on here for others to investigate further if so inclined. Remember I'm not trying to pick holes in coslx and I've stressed a number of times already that the problem I've seen is with tpwc debug enabled only. coslx with or without wounds included with tpwc debug disabled works fine.

Edited July 9, 2012 by tadanobu

[majoris 10]

I've been getting strange effects when used with ASR_AI - the green bulbs stay green, even after death.

Any possibility of someone posting a link to an older version? (2.03 or earlier) As great as the addon is, I'm at a loss without ASR_AI running alongside it.

[tpw 2315]

Hi all.

I've almost finished a text based graphical debug that doesn't actually attach civilian debug balls to any units, but shows suppression status with text floating near each unit. I will release the next TPWCAS with it as an option. So you'll be able to select either no debugging, text based, or full pretty balloons. Hopefully everyone will be happy then.

Also, Professor Ollem has just about hit the MP and Dedi nail on the head, so an experimental build of MP TPWCAS will be released shortly also.

[orcinus 121]

Isn't a case of can't be bothered but constraints on time I have available to test. I noticed what I thought might be a problem and, because others want to use coslx and it's been pointed out that there might be conflicts between mixing it and other mods with tpwc, asr etc, I thought I'd share my observations on here for others to investigate further if so inclined. Remember I'm not trying to pick holes in coslx and I've stressed a number of times already that the problem I've seen is with tpwc debug enabled only. coslx with or without wounds included with tpwc debug disabled works fine.

Hmm, I think you read my post as harsh, in retrospect it might seem so as it was rather terse - not my intention, apologies if I inadvertently offended you.

Actually I lied :) - I have in fact run a few more tests as I was puzzled why the civ count shot up so abruptly - there are only 12 -15 or so civ units spawned in that mission AFAICT, It's odd that even with debug off the count goes up (but still stabilises). Same happens with no COSLX, just that the count is higher with that running as well.

Not terribly well controlled experiments, I lacked the time & concentration to set up a proper test mission; I may do that as I'm puzzled what it is counting. It isn't dead bodies; I reduced the recycle bin max to 20 & got similar figures to when it was 200.

IIRC all sorts of things including a lot of inanimate objects are classed as civs. Maybe it's something unobvious like dropped weapons - if you're using vanilla CO SLX_wounds the count of those will go up over time.

@tpw: great, looking forward to it. Colours don't show up too well through NVGs :)

[kiberkiller 10]

I'm using COSLX (all of it), ACE, ASR_AI and TPWC_AI and I haven't noticed any real problems except that dead bodies rarely behave a bit funky but that's probably a COSLX issue.

[tpw 2315]

Given the rapid pace of MP development by Ollem and Fabrizio, this may well turn out to be one of the last SP releases.

TPWCAS 2.07 beta: http://filesonly.com/download.php?file=805TPWC_AI_SUPPRESS_207.zip

Changelog:

• Added floating text based debugging.
  
• bDetect start hint now correctly not displayed if TPWCAS hint is not displayed.
  
• Courage is only decreased if there are nearby friendly casualties.
  
• bDetect 0.67.

The main change is floating text debugging, which might help those people who'd like visual debugging but are experiencing issues with balls registering as civilians. Both kinds of debugging are on by default.

Edited July 10, 2012 by tpw

[kremator 1065]

Even though these have been SP releases, I have been able to test solely on my dedi. For the majority of time it works reasonably well. A full MP variant will be lovely.

I reckon that I will still get a slight slowdown as I normally run with 300-400AI most of the time :)

Keep up the good work gents !