TPWC AI suppression system

[SavageCDN 231]

Same. My pants will remember this day.

lol cleanup aisle 4 !!!!

[pellejones 1]

Regarding the special version:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/96469595/TPWCAS_DSC_v0.2.zip

this version of TPW CAS/LOS thinge casues extreme server lag! It took us some time to figure out :) But with this on, we drop 15 FPS on our server!

NO AI, 40+ players, TPW OFF = 50 FPS.

NO AI, 40+ players, TPW On = 35 FPS.

[ollem 4]

The FPS hit might be caused by the embedded TWP Line-of-Site script..

The TPW-CAS part is FPS Aware (i.e will slow down automatically causing less suppression effect but also less FPS hit)

For the TPW-LOS this hasn't been implemented yet, and with 40+ players in close range of AI, the commands used in the script may be just a little too much for the server..

[pellejones 1]

Yes probably :) just wanted to let you guys know.

[ollem 4]

potential TPWCAS embedded 'find cover' - Work In Progress.

Only cover within less then 8 m is considered, while else AI will keep running around like madman, performance might be impacted too much, and/or it's unrealistic to run any further if the bullets are flying around..

This findcover has been setup in a way to have as little impact on AI behavior and performance as possible.

So basically AI is given order to move to a position which is considered to provide cover and that's it.

Do not expect AI to enter buildings - only hide behind one..

Once arrived at cover location regular AI behavior takes over again.

UKBO9iV9FLM

Do you think this is added value?

Or is the (potential) performance impact not worth the added behavior?

[Tonci87 163]

Only one guy moves in each group, why?

[blackmamb 2]

I'm curious as to how you define a cover location?

[ollem 4]

Only one guy moves in each group, why?

Distance to cover for other AI is too far

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

I'm curious as to how you define a cover location?

Object with a minimal size

[chrisb 196]

I did this test five times, the ai deployed smoke whilst going for cover three out of the five times. They always go for cover no matter if deploying smoke or not. The cover is quite some way to the side, they are pretty much out in the open down the train track, they go for the best cover if they can, but some do go to the wrecks for cover if they think they are easier to get to, as you can see with one here.

Anyway, these are pretty intelligent ai and this ‘find cover’ may not be bettered yet until a3 perhaps.

Zeus pbo’s have been used more in these tests and only zeus ‘find cover’ was used, no slx ‘find cover’. GL4, SLX and TPWC are all present alongside Zeus, I can supply the pbo list if required. Performance hit was minimal if any against what I usually use. Map is ‘Yapal’.

[Tonci87 163]

Distance to cover for other AI is too far

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Object with a minimal size

Hmm maybe try this. Check if the group leader is near cover <=10m

If yes, send whole group to nearby cover positions if number of group members is <=8

Possible?

[blackmamb 2]

@ChrisB: Removing slx_findcover from slx is not a good idea imo, as it messes up all slx_ai. SLX_AI relies on a modified danger.fsm, which in turn relies on different functions, and findcover is one of those. By doing this, you break the danger.fsm, and thus mess all up.

[odium 12]

Gruppe W (Germany) is testing the script right now. We provide a detailed feedback in a few days.

Edit:

Actually, we tested it right now. No effects on the AI on a dedicated server (script and pbo-version). AI-Effects on a private session and a few guys were supressed, but some not.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Odium

[ollem 4]

No effects on the AI on a dedicated server (script and pbo-version)

What ArmA version did you use? which mods?

note: only player-shot-bullets cause AI suppression on dedicated server

[chrisb 196]

@ChrisB: Removing slx_findcover from slx is not a good idea imo, as it messes up all slx_ai. SLX_AI relies on a modified danger.fsm, which in turn relies on different functions, and findcover is one of those. By doing this, you break the danger.fsm, and thus mess all up.

I would disagree with that, but only because of testing and lots of missions made over time without the find_cover, plus having no issues regards ai behaviour without the pbo present, but only imo..

I usually run two together, zeus & slx find_cover, but for different reasons.

Still respect what you say and its for others to decide..:)

[blackmamb 2]

Yeah, that came up wrong. Not saying it's bad per se, rather that it messes up slx_ai flow. Now, if you think that gives you a better ai, that's totally fine. Maybe that modified danger dsm doesn't quite satisfy you or suit your needs, and that's for you to decide. I was just giving you an info in case you didn't crack it open to see what's happening in there is all!

Anyway, the fact that it doesn't give any error is surprising to me. Guess there's quite some stuff with fsm i still need to understand.

[laxemann 1673]

We used 1.62 with one of the most recent betas, and yup, all bullets were player-shot.

[metalcraze 290]

Zeus addons shouldn't be used past 1.59 at all as they slow down AI reactions considerably or break them.

With FindCover when AI spots you 10m away he will try to run into the nearest cover instead of shooting you. In vanilla he will always shoot you first and run for cover second.

Unless Protegimus will fix that (which may not happen ever) it's not a good idea, ChrisB.

[SavageCDN 231]

That was my thought as well with regards to ZeusAI... really ASR_AI is the only AI mod being actively worked on as far as I am aware (present company excepted...of course).

Keep up the good work:yay:

[chrisb 196]

Zeus addons shouldn't be used past 1.59 at all as they slow down AI reactions considerably or break them.

With FindCover when AI spots you 10m away he will try to run into the nearest cover instead of shooting you. In vanilla he will always shoot you first and run for cover second.

In the spoiler is another set of test vids, they all include ai mods TPWC & selected pbo's from Zeus, SLX, GL4. The first vid shows the Zeus problem, the need to find cover before firing. The next three show the exact same zeus pbo's being used but now without the zeus problem, we use a slightly different mix and setup. The need for us keeping the zeus find cover pbo along with the other zeus ones we use is two fold, one of which is seen in a vid I posted on the page prior to this one, i.e. great ai reactions..

You mean this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkWnB0tca8

I mean these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXtY7C-QIdI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZldJ4HWRN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYW2iHObuMg

All have Zeus findcover pbo present, however the bottom three have a slightly different mix of pbo's. Zeus still shows through, but without the find cover problem, and no, the zeus pbo's can't be getting overridden or buried completely, as we still see zeus ai reactions coming through, i.e. the vid previously posted..:p:rolleyes:

Not arguing though, if you think its broke, then thats fine..;)

[ollem 4]

We used 1.62 with one of the most recent betas, and yup, all bullets were player-shot.

Do you run any mods on the server? I.e. CBA is a prerequisite

Does the serverlog show any reference to TPWCAS being started?

[fabrizio_t 58]

In the spoiler is another set of test vids, they all include ai mods TPWC & selected pbo's from Zeus, SLX, GL4. The first vid shows the Zeus problem, the need to find cover before firing. The next three show the exact same zeus pbo's being used but now without the zeus problem, we use a slightly different mix and setup. The need for us keeping the zeus find cover pbo along with the other zeus ones we use is two fold, one of which is seen in a vid I posted on the page prior to this one, i.e. great ai reactions..

You mean this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkWnB0tca8

I mean these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXtY7C-QIdI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZldJ4HWRN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYW2iHObuMg

All have Zeus findcover pbo present, however the bottom three have a slightly different mix of pbo's. Zeus still shows through, but without the find cover problem, and no, the zeus pbo's can't be getting overridden or buried completely, as we still see zeus ai reactions coming through, i.e. the vid previously posted..:p:rolleyes:

Not arguing though, if you think its broke, then thats fine..;)

I think that -unless the modder originally planned it- by mixing mods that basically do the same stuff and/or override the same files you overload the AI and make it unpredictable.

The best possible outcome in case of mixing colliding mods is that some mod gets completely in charge of some specific behaviour, while another behaviour is obliterated.

Usually the single "feature" you observe is not really a sum of effects, but rather the outcome of the "stronger" mod.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 27, 2012 by fabrizio_T

[chrisb 196]

I think that -unless the modder originally planned it- by mixing mods that basically do the same stuff and/or override the same files you overload the AI and make it unpredictable.

The best possible outcome in case of mixing colliding mods is that some mod gets completely in charge of some specific behaviour, while another behaviour is obliterated.

Usually the single "feature" you observe is not really a sum of effects, but rather the outcome of the "stronger" mod.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks @fabrizio_T, I respect your opinion as I repect @metalcraze opinion, we are all entitled to say what we think.

The group I play in and myself enjoy the mix of pbo’s we use.

Not all mods give the player what he/she would like to see, sometimes it’s a case of, I like this bit from here and this bit from there. Its basically what we’re doing, we don’t use the whole mod, we use the pbo’s and any that they need, to do, or try to do, what we would like our ai to perform. That’s it, the results we have are what we want, so its for the player to decide,.

Regards putting too much strain on the ai or indeed cpu, if you add all the pbo’s from all the mods we use pbo’s from, you would have a little over 90 pbo’s. In our ai folder of mixed pbo’s from these mods, we usually have anything upto a max of 29 pbo’s, depending on which mix we use. That’s around one third of SLX alone at max, but we get to use parts from GL4, Zeus, SLX and the whole TPWC sup + LOS, so it’s a good exchange..

In the end its for the player to decide, after lots of testing, easy as that really..:)

[laxemann 1673]

Do you run any mods on the server? I.e. CBA is a prerequisite

Does the serverlog show any reference to TPWCAS being started?

Hey man,

thanks for the reply.

Yes, we run ACE, ACRE (and therefore CBA of Course), the rest is just a few unit and map addons.

However, the strange thing is that it works on self hosted missions in MP and in SP just well (using the same Modset as the dedicated) but not on the dedicated.

'Honestly don't know what the serverlog says since our main server admin currently is on vacation.

[b1944 10]

Hi

I have been wanting to make a script for sneaking missions which works like this: if a human player gets spotted by the enemy he has x seconds to eliminate the enemy soldier(s) he got spotted by. Now your LOS script has given me an idea how to do that. I have one question though. I took a look at your LOS script but I see no isServer limitation so the code seems to run on the server and clients as well. I can think of no reason however. Can you tell me why it is designed in that way?

Thank you

[blackmamb 2]

It's designed this way cause the goal of this script was to enhance player controlled AI too. Plus TPW came up with all this in a SP optic, at first.

Anyway, you're probably better off using this script, as (i think) it does exactly what you need. Plus it apparently is designed foor Coop Mission as well.

It's pretty well documented (thanks W0lle for that), only thing I'd change is I'd use it use it as a precompiled function, not via execVM.