TPWC AI suppression system

[blackmamb 2]

@Tank: Yeah clearly. In a perfect world!;)

And the same would happen if he was behind a window or doorway. Still, as nobody seem to manage the findCover command, we need to forget that for now, i guess.

[ollem 4]

@TOTAL22:

I'm not to keen on adding a lot more exception checking: this may impact the overal response and performance.

Only thing we might consider to add is some 'ignore' parameter, e.g. to ingnore suppress or to ignore stance change.

This could be done by adding to init of the specific unit e.g.

this addVariable ["tpwcasIgnore", 1];

(Note: do try this yet, it won't work :p )

[fabrizio_t 58]

I dont think there is any way to check if a unit is inside a building as there is no AI mesh determining who's inside - who's out. Unless of course they are at a predetermined building position.

We do have boundingbox. Also buildingPos would help a little bit, like you suggest.

So, to some extents and with approximation it's definetely possible to detect whether a unit is inside a building (I recall having done this some time ago).

The overhead would not be negligible though, so i highly doubt that's really worth it.

EDIT: Also i remember being excited at first when finally i got AI units to move into buildings by script.

The problem was that once into cover they did almost nothing useful, slowly moved around, stopped, went back and forth blindly: no real tactical gain.

Even when ordered to get onto rooftops they weren't as useful as you may think. They were easy targets even when prone and unable to suppress anything in a reliable way.

This was my experience :|

Edited September 8, 2012 by fabrizio_T

[chrisb 196]

All of the units in this test video for unit positioning, can be suppressed realistically, thanks to TPWC’s addon/mod here. The only human players are the first russian and the preacher, the rest are ai.. 720hd is available, but the quality was done on 50% (msi) so isn't great..

This test vid shows ai unit positioning only ( inside buildings)..

In combat each unit will take up a sensible stance to avoid getting shot, will move position to get a better position if they can, oh and yes all can be suppressed inside buildings and indeed put the right level of suppression on them and move in quick and decisive enough, and provided they are still alive they may/will also surrender inside buildings.

ai aren't daft, all unscripted:

.

Firing from windows, doorways, balconies or rooftops..

all test vids, 720hp is available, but each recorded at only 50% quality (msi) so not great..

Edited September 10, 2012 by ChrisB

[Tonci87 163]

How did you make them move into the buildings?

[TOTAL22 0]

TPWCAS uses setunitpos to change a unit's stance. Setunitpos is over-ridden by manual stance commands. If you as a squad leader order your AI squad to stand, then they won't drop under suppression. If you order them into cover (crouching) in a building, then they will not go prone. I can't say that I'm keen on scripting in exceptions to suppression - a bullet is a bullet no matter where you are.

OK, so there should be a command which can be used in a script or in the init field of a unit to make them keep standing or kneeling whatever happens which over-rides the suppression system?

I just need to know that and forget about the new feature :)

[chrisb 196]

How did you make them move into the buildings?

I use a mix of pbo’s from a few ai mods, one of those is ‘gl4’, that’s the part that makes them go into buildings on balconies and rooftops.

__________

Best viewed in full screen, recorded in just 50% quality (msi), so its not great, but its there, all short and sweet, but time enough to get the idea. 720HD is available. Second screen below, is same test, just different run through, slightly better quality 70% (msi), plus no text.. Screen three is test without buildings nearby for ai to use, tree's instead.

Also in the second vid, I think the ai squad leader is playing dead, what do you think, incorporated in this mod mix, they will and do play dead then get up when you don't expect it, shoot em again, to make sure :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X42GD5LHnz8

Test videos for find cover/suppression.

We added TPWC Suppress to these previous tests for 'find cover', it shows the ai with a quicker reaction and better stance now that tpwc has been added, should have turned the balloons on :p

Thanks again for this addon, just putting it into a few previous tests to see the difference.:D

Notice that when the ai are fighting from inside buildings #vid couple of posts back#, they tend to be better at stance changes with tpwc suppress added, more aware of the danger..

Edited September 10, 2012 by ChrisB

[domokun 515]

I use a mix of pbo’s from a few ai mods, one of those is ‘gl4’, that’s the part that makes them go into buildings on balconies and rooftops.

I'm intrigued...

Care to share your magic mix?

[Grey-Legolas 10]

We want magic mix too)!

[chrisb 196]

I'm intrigued...

Care to share your magic mix?

We want magic mix too)!

Sorry missed these two, I have put the list in the spoiler..

Folder: @ai_enhancements/addons/

GL4 Burning fx

GL4 Config fx

GL4 Dubbing

GL4 Intro

GL4 Shell fx

GL4 Sound fx

GL4 System

SLX ai dodge

SLX ai identify

SLX ai noautoengage

SLX ai steering

SLX anim pistolcivil

SLX anims

SLX cloud

SLX effects

SLX explosiondust

SLX findcover

SLX impacts

SLX netcode

SLX ragdoll

SLX shoteffects

SLX suppression effects

SLX surrender

ST collision

ST evasive

TPWC ai suppress 3.04

TPW ai los 1.04

Zeus findcover

Zeus netcode

Zeus c fov

Zeus sys ai

Some of the above are cosmetic, well you know, i.e. Zeus fov, GL4 burning, its pretty obvious which are these. Also dates matter for the pbo in the list, 'i.e. created date', I will update this list shortly with a link to a list with pbo dates in.. These will be from several mod versions, i.e. pbo's from differing versions. They are simply the ones that work for us after much testing.

Don't run them with other ai mods, they do work with a few from asr ai but not all (I don't use asr that often)..

This vid shows the after effects of sound detect, the search to find whoever did the shooting (me)..

Edited November 12, 2012 by ChrisB
correction for pbo list..

[dmarkwick 261]

This video is private

10 chars of length

[SavageCDN 231]

Sorry missed these two, I have put the list in the spoiler..

Don't run them with other ai mods, they do work with a few from asr ai but not all (I don't use asr that often)..

Thanks for sharing!! Do you happen to know which from ASR_AI work with your mix?

(sorry for OT)

[TOTAL22 0]

ChrisB

I'm really keen on trying out your ai enhancement mix, but could you tell us which pbos is it exactly that affect ai behavior, and which doesn't?

Because, obviously ST bunnyhop would have nothing to do with ai behavior does it?

[chrisb 196]

ChrisB

I'm really keen on trying out your ai enhancement mix, but could you tell us which pbos is it exactly that affect ai behavior, and which doesn't?

Because, obviously ST bunnyhop would have nothing to do with ai behavior does it?

Yes, just leave out the 'st' ones. I would use all the others, even if not directly ai, they seem to be closely interwoven with each other.

:)

[gudman 1]

ChrisB

Just tested your mix, for about 15 minutes, works very nice. I've got a question, you mentioned mixing it also with ASR AI. So what particular parts of it should be disabled to avoid conflicts? I have only one complaint, units run around like wild insects, also detection distances leave a lot to be desired. Doesn't look that realistic, to be honest, so would it be possible to keep all the nice effects of your mix, while also maintaining slower, more "realistic" combat pace of ASR?

[chrisb 196]

ChrisB

Just tested your mix, for about 15 minutes, works very nice. I've got a question, you mentioned mixing it also with ASR AI. So what particular parts of it should be disabled to avoid conflicts? I have only one complaint, units run around like wild insects, also detection distances leave a lot to be desired. Doesn't look that realistic, to be honest, so would it be possible to keep all the nice effects of your mix, while also maintaining slower, more "realistic" combat pace of ASR?

Its conflicting with something you have, or your cpu is unable to process enough.

The ai reaction you say you have is nothing like the reaction we get, as you can see from the vids, they don't run around like insects. Detection distance is very good, reaction is correct, perhaps have a look at the '+ai behaviour' in my sig and take a look at the two I have added today 10/ arma 2: test without find cover and, 11/ arma 2: test with take cover.

The results of test 1 is comparible to ASR_ai, i.e. they take up correct stance when in combat (could be TPWC however doing that), but no finding cover, just stay out in the open (although to be fair its a bit extreme the test, your likely to have some cover closer).

Then test 2, which is using the mix and you will see the result, both tests include TPWC_suppress. The distance to the small villages to each side (they choose where to go) is quite a distance, but as the vid shows they break for cover even though its a distance off, but its their best option of survival, they cover each other as they go, anyway have a look.

If your into ASR_ai, and why not its a good mod, then you may just need to add one of the 'find cover' pbo's, but you would lose lots of what they do in this mix. Also have a look at the 'ai reaction to sound & then search' vid, that also gives an idea of how they act cohesively, that also has TPWC_suppress included.

Can't say which asr_ai will run with it well, just testing will see, asr is upgraded quite often so each time its upgraded it would need retesting, I would think.:)

TPWC suppress is most definitely helping with stance and a certain amount of find cover, however over distance (as in the test) only the find cover pbo's in the mix seem to handle it correctly.. Its an extreme & simple example, but you get a good idea from watching. If you cannot recreate the effect, its either as said, conflicting or cpu, you need lots of cpu with ai, especially with this mix being a combination, rather than just one mod.

[doveman 7]

ChrisB,

Is "Zeus netcode" a typo in your list, as I can't seem to find that anywhere?

[chrisb 196]

ChrisB,

Is "Zeus netcode" a typo in your list, as I can't seem to find that anywhere?

Zeus & Zeus Ace

You will find the netcode pbo inside either.:)

[doveman 7]

Zeus & Zeus Ace

You will find the netcode pbo inside either.:)

So it is, thanks. I was going by the fact it's not listed on those pages and that it wasn't in the Zeus folder (as part of COWarMod) that I already had to conclude it must be hidden somewhere else ;)

[gudman 1]

Yeah, I see that you don't get that kind of behaviour. The problem is, I have enough CPU (I7 and most of background processes closed/stopped, no freezes). And I don't think there actually is anything to conflict with, as I tested without any other mods activated. Strange stuff.

To be more specific, AI's behaviour in combat feels like they are like, constantly searching for cover while in combat, with no time to actually engage the enemy. They do all that stuff - they see a smoke and begin to search, moving from cover to cover while zig-zaging, they hide, take up building positions... but as soon as they actually see the enemy, they start hiding. I don't think it has anything to do with CPU.

Edit:

Decided to drop a screenshot of addonfolder for your mix in my Arma2folder.

And no other mod activated at all, save for CBAs. A2CO.

Edited September 19, 2012 by gudman

[chrisb 196]

Yeah, I see that you don't get that kind of behaviour. The problem is, I have enough CPU (I7 and most of background processes closed/stopped, no freezes). And I don't think there actually is anything to conflict with, as I tested without any other mods activated. Strange stuff.

To be more specific, AI's behaviour in combat feels like they are like, constantly searching for cover while in combat, with no time to actually engage the enemy. They do all that stuff - they see a smoke and begin to search, moving from cover to cover while zig-zaging, they hide, take up building positions... but as soon as they actually see the enemy, they start hiding. I don't think it has anything to do with CPU.

Edit:

Decided to drop a screenshot of addonfolder for your mix in my Arma2folder.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Photos/addonsfolder.jpg?w=afcfc04d

And no other mod activated at all, save for CBAs. A2CO.

How did you set up your mission, is it one your making yourself ? ace, acex, all the other acex were used as part of my other mods, may make a difference, can't see it though, should work fine without these.

This mix may not work for campaign missions or other user made missions as I have said in other posts, for best results it would have to be made from scratch i.e. with GL4 being the main focus for placing units, i.e. around a town or village, out in the open, units with waypoints etc, modules placed first and so on (read the 'readme').

Also don't forget that in the mix is slx_noautoengage, i.e. they may not engage straight away, instead choosing their moment, if they are engaged by the enemy first however, they will return fire whilst perhaps dropping back or moving in another direction to find a better position. If its a larger enemy force they meet, they may just return fire whilst trying to disengage via working another route to the waypoint, they will try to avoid contact with larger forces, if they see fit. Its a far more immersive experience than the usual, they think a lot more before going ahead with anything rash.

I was testing using asr_ai a little last night, it has been a while since I played with asr so updated it all. There were some interesting and good results just using: asr_ai_c_aiskill, asr_ai_main, asr_ai_settings, asr_ai_sys_aiskill, added to the mix, with no other changes or anything took out, perhaps worth looking at if you like asr, it was only a brief testing.

TPWC suppress works well with the mix I use and also asr, so the results included some good suppression moments, just senarios used. One was a patrol through town, it saw a simple fire team (four man) split into two, two man teams (ai choice), to search through a small town/village, keeping reasonably close to each other, but definitely working two + two, worked well. When they met enemy they acted much as they would anyway, other than they dropped back a little more to find cover before contact. It was only another four man enemy unit they met, still very interesting results, may try more over the next week or so.

Another thing to think about is the way you setup waypoints, i.e. time spent in-between moves, where waypoints are placed for better progress through wherever they are moving, etc. I do this as standard now, placing perhaps 6-8 waypoints for a through town movement (small town), also there was a market place, I usually have them move quickly through whilst covering the area enough to check for enemy, but the waypoint at the edge leading to the market place approach, I allow them time to get a really good look at the area before moving through, same on exiting an area like that, I place a waypoint with good cover on exit and have them wait a little time before moving on, its easy to get seen in market place type areas (reasonably open) and having a good place with cover on exit, plus giving time to gather up and wait to see if they have enemy units moving around that may have spotted them etc, is important, just the way I do it, personal choice really.

I don't want to hijack TPWC thread so perhaps pm me if you have any further issues, should you continue to use the mix, I will try and help if pos.. This applies to anyone wanting to ask regards this mix, just pm me, I will try and help out, if I can.

Got, in the meantime, to get back to finishing a mission for our group, so testing is at a halt for now..:)

[ollem 4]

I had a look at both the Zeus findcover and SLX findcover scripts: they are actually pretty much the same (the one evolved into the other).

Of course the Zeus one works with the other Zeus mods and the SLX one with the SLX mods.

Although thes cover scripts may work quite well (not tested it myself) they also seem quite big scripts and potentially put some strain on the system..

I did found a much more simple find-cover script, and have an adjusted version merged in tpwcas - of course with config option to enable/disable

Work In Progress..

It should have fairly limited impact on performance while it's only taking care of some basic find cover.

So don't get over exited already, but if there's some cover close, the AI will now move there and not just drop in the open.

Only cover within short radius is taken into account, and if unit is already near some cover, it will not trigger a change.

There are some minor glitches which require some attention.

Once I've found the time to finish it expect a beta version in this thread.

[kremator 1065]

I think I just got over-excited :) Keep up the good work !

[blackmamb 2]

Same. My pants will remember this day.

[chrisb 196]

Sounds rather exciting, if a really good find cover could be incorporated within TPWC_suppress, then that would be great. To cover a reasonably good distance of ‘find cover’ would be even better, say upto 30-40mtrs or so..:)