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jerryhopper

I'm looking for Proponents and Opponents of the DAYZ mod.

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The thing is, its kind of hard to be against the dayz mod, or any mod for that matter. If you don't like it you are by no means forced to play it. Even though it overshadows arma and, to most of the new players, misrepresents it, it also brings in tons of cash. The money far outweighs the annoyance anyone has about people saying arma is nothing without dayz. Besides many people say/used to say similar things about ace and nobody seemed to mind.

As a mod, there really isn't anything wrong with dayz. Now if it were to be the new vanilla, then I am sure many people would have a problem with it...

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As a mod, there really isn't anything wrong with dayz. Now if it were to be the new vanilla, then I am sure many people would have a problem with it...

It's already vanilla, at least 1 Dev is directly working on it, and patches are being tailored for it. If PVP/Co-op folk can expect the same mission support in ArmA III, then I'll shut my trap, until then, this game is officially a free zombie MMORPG.

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It's already vanilla, at least 1 Dev is directly working on it, and patches are being tailored for it. If PVP/Co-op folk can expect the same mission support in ArmA III, then I'll shut my trap, until then, this game is officially a free zombie MMORPG.

Wanna a tissue for those tears?

This single mod made more (free) PR than anything else ever released for the series. Why not show some service to the newcomers and try to not only hook they into the game\series, but also into the BIS train?

In the end, money talks. Might sound harsh to speak this for a company that is in the "Axis of Good Companies" for a long time, but it's true.

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There's some interesting stories coming out over on the DayZ forums. From them, some (perhaps) unforeseen emergent gameplay seems to me to be rather interesting:

One guy tells how when in a firefight with one guy, the guy disappears and the player assumes he's disconnected. He then runs to a different location so the guy cannot log onto another server, move behind the player's "old" position, then re-log back onto his server. That reveals an interesting game spin that I've never seen before anywhere else :)

Same story, the guy tells how his buddy goes "server-hopping" to gather loot from other servers before returning back to the first one.

While these two behaviors might be seen as exploits, I think they're very interesting indeed :)

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Pros:

1. More money for Bohemia Interactive.

2. More publicity for Bohemia Interactive.

3. Much needed multiplayer fixes are finally getting done.

4. More people may try out vanilla ArmA, which means more potential community members and modders.

Cons:

1. Server list is flooded with DayZ servers.

2. Most people aren't buying ArmA because it's a military simulator, they are buying it for a zombie survival mod.

3. People think that ArmA is all about DayZ. If there is any news about ArmA, it will most likely also include something about DayZ.

4. Not many of the new people have very nice attitudes. They don't respect one another.

5. The DayZ playerbase currently overshadows the ArmA playerbase.

It's all I can think of for now.

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Keep it as a mod, keep Arma as Arma, and actually take a little bit of time out of your busy day of DayZ and porn, and help out with improving both

It's obvious that BIS has benefited from the mod and has improved the game platform even more and I'm sure BIS is enjoying the extra $$ inflow; but I'm seeing a lot of DayZ players trying to change the game to better benefit them and not the core game. There definitely seems to be an influx of "I want this now" kiddies that have no respect for what the game and community is about. They have no clue of how to report bugs, make repros, and actually CONTRIBUTE to the game/community (not saying it's only DayZ players). Instead of taking 5-10 minutes to read the forums and try and report bugs they just rant about how crappy something is and it NEEDS to be fixed asap.

They don't realize that this community is very different from most others, and they don't realize that BIS is not the average developer. There IS a process...

Overall I think it's good for the game, pretty fun (from the ~6 hours I've played), and I wouldn't mind trying out DayZ again once it's more polished; but I would like to see a little more participation in improving the game instead of "gimme instant gratification"

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Been a long-time lurker here and user of Arma 2 for quite some time, and I've got to say I was shocked when I re-installed the other day and saw nothing but DayZ servers. It's good to see a lot of sales going BI's way, however my main problem with this mod is while it's getting them lots of publicity but it's not the kind of publicity Arma wants. As people have stated before, almost every article about Arma people comment about DayZ and how they love it. This is great, but it's created an image of Arma solely around zombies, and not around the military simulation it really is.

I feel a lot of you are being too optimistic by thinking these new guys will find Arma and enjoy it, since these are completely different play-styles. The type of people that play these type of zombie games are not the people that play military simulators. Many of these people are the types of people that play games such as COD, which are good for instant fast action shooting but nothing else. Not only does it bring in a different image for Arma itself but I imagine it's going to drive away the very customers Arma wants. People who want to play military simulations are not going to find a game so centered around this new zombie mod appealing. Aside from the increase in sales and possible new patches BI has been working on due to the huge amount of new buyers, I can't say I'm a big fan of this mod. But then again, I have never found zombie games enjoyable so I'm going to be critical of it.

I'm hoping this DayZ mod goes stand-alone for Arma 3 if it gets updated for it. If it goes stand alone I would fully support this mod in since it would only help with the sales for BI, however right now it seems to be negatively impacting those of us who just want to play Arma 2 for what it really is.

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The type of people that play these type of zombie games are not the people that play military simulators. Many of these people are the types of people that play games such as COD, which are good for instant fast action shooting but nothing else.

Steve, have you actually given Dayz a try? It's not really for the fast action shooting crowd. Even before Dayz was out there were quite a lot of Zombie missions around on these forums which, at that time, were by definition filled with people who play military simulators.

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Pros:

  • I think all PROS I know, were already mentioned. I don't want to repeat them.

Cons:

  • The idea behind DayZ and it's components are not new in ArmA. For example a lot of zombie missions was released since OFP and there were even some "loot food and water to survive"-missions. And DayZ's persistens is similar to MSO's NOMAD (with exception of a global database).
    I am afraid that from now on every mission with similar gameplay or scripts will be a "dayz-clone" in the eyes of players, even if the developer puts alot of afford in scripting and modeling.
  • I don't want ArmA2/3 to be known as "the game behind DayZ". A german game magzine even said: "Welcome to Chernarus, the beautiful world of DayZ" and it looks like they thought chernarus is part of the mod.
  • This:
    5. The dayz playerbase currently overshadows the arma playerbase.

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Originally Posted by ScubaSteveWA

The type of people that play these type of zombie games are not the people that play military simulators. Many of these people are the types of people that play games such as COD, which are good for instant fast action shooting but nothing else.

You've obviously never played DayZ.

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Really good idea this Jerry, think it's a very interesting avenue for exploration, there are certainly some people on both sides who could do with a little exposure to the opinions of the other side, I certainly was a little sceptical when things first exploded but now can only admire what Rocket has achieved and continues to achieve, I'm obviously a little concerned that some people who are ultra-milsim orientated will feel marginalised but I certainly see room for both camps in the Armaversum :)

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Ah, this little can of worms...

Lets be frank, the DayZ trend is nothing new, We saw the same with Warfare, then Domination, and we'll see another with the release of A3 I'm sure. These trends are integral to any long standing game, especially as the community becomes weary of playing the same sort of missions. Re-invent or be cast at the wayside. Personally, I'm mostly in the against camp, not because I don't recognise the good such publicity and interest lends to the game, the developers and eventually the changes that filter down to the end user, but that so much focus is being placed on a MoD and a game mode that isn't to everyone's tastes, especially with every current interview and games article, as well as the new influx of users asking for changes all based on their DayZ experience.

The positives are clear, BIS gets a lot of publicity, increased sales, expanded audience and new customer base. The game gets a whole new avenue of stress testing the base coding and MP stability, a new game mode than can be applied across a wide spectrum of users (persistant worlds don't need to be soley about the frankly tiresome Zombie genre, they can be applied to co-op groups, PvP groups, and everything in between) and the lessons learned and the fixes and improvements gained from what is essentially a very bold and superbly executed experiment are beyond value.

That being said, those positives are can equally be seen in a negative light. It worries me beyond belief that the new influx of players are soley interested in DayZ and its successor. However, I'm not going to generalise and insist that all of these new players are simple here for DayZ, I also hope that they embrace what ArmA stands for an its never ending potential (that never ceases to amaze me how the community then goes and molds it into something even more spectacular) and that the weight of their voices begins to slowly influence the base game. It also concerns me that many of these fixes and improvements only come to light once DayZ became a success. Whilst I'm not naive enough to believe that the developers produce things soley out of the goodness of their heart, it's a shame that some fundamental fixes and improvements may only come about because of a new player base chasing zombies around a persistant world, when we've been living with them across multiple titles.

However, I've been involved with this game and community for the better part of a decade now, on all levels, and I know from experience that BIS have one of the most comprehensive and engaging relationship with the community, helping Mods where they can and if with inside knowledge and fixes should it be required, and long may it continue. Additionally, Rocket has done a sterling job, and none of these discussions should remove from the praise and that feeling of accomplishment for him and those who have helped. At the end of the day, I, like many, hope that DayZ benefits ArmA 2/3 in a positive way, for all users, not just the most vocal, and produces a more complete and well rounded product. I guess I'm just a little worried it may also hinder it.

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Really good idea this Jerry, think it's a very interesting avenue for exploration, there are certainly some people on both sides who could do with a little exposure to the opinions of the other side, I certainly was a little sceptical when things first exploded but now can only admire what Rocket has achieved and continues to achieve, I'm obviously a little concerned that some people who are ultra-milsim orientated will feel marginalised but I certainly see room for both camps in the Armaversum :)

It seems to me that any time anything significant happens in the ArmAverse, some group decides they've been marginalised :)

There also seems to be an element of butt-hurt about any new group who have a different interest using ArmA, the most common complaint being that these are console/CoD kiddies. This seems to persist even when it's obvious that the gameplay simply doesn't line up. It seems to me that one of the cons is that this activity of actively looking down on a subsection of ArmA gamers is increased.

It's very simple to pass over any server you see with "DayZ" in it's description, and yet many people complain that they can merely see them. It takes hardly any effort at all to ignore them, the list is not grossly overwhelmed with them.

So I should say that one of the cons is that butt-hurt behaviour is increased :)

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Personally I only see positives. The world is home to diversity, different opinions and preferences. We all might be playing the same game, but it is very differently played from server to server, and community to community.

IMO it's fine. People don't need to be like you, and like what you like. We can all live and play together without being clones :P

In that sense, I believe DayZ is no different to other mods or game modes. People bought the game for mods before already. I44, CWR, Unsung, ACE, just to name a few.

At the same time DayZ really hit the nail with Zombies and persistence gaming, making it popular beyond expectations.

I think the positives have been discussed extensively already so no need to repeat. Bring on the people; fuel Bohemia Interactive's war-chest, inspiration and commitment - it's good for all of us.

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In that sense, I believe DayZ is no different to other mods or game modes. People bought the game for mods before already. I44, CWR, Unsung, ACE, just to name a few.

Exactly, the only difference ( aside from the mod's technical differences ) here is that DayZ went VIRAL beyond everybody's expectations.

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Exactly, the only difference ( aside from the mod's technical differences ) here is that DayZ went VIRAL beyond everybody's expectations.

It's not a mod, it's a full-fledged MMORPG with server clusters and persistent "Universe". We all remember Sahrani Life RPG in Armed Assault 1 and it was popular, though your characters were not transferable cross-server.

It is like you people close your eyes and refuse to comprehend the reasons behind the success.

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It is like you people close your eyes and refuse to comprehend the reasons behind the success.

You're misunderstanding what Jerry wrote to read it in an incorrect negative connotation, I don't believe that was his intent hence what he put in brackets.

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You're misunderstanding what Jerry wrote to read it in an incorrect negative connotation, I don't believe that was his intent hence what he put in brackets.

These 'technical differences' are the core of the mod - the Hive master server. How many of your DayZ customers are going to stay for ArmA II, or for ArmA III for that matter, if this 'mod' is not ported on release?

Free MMORPG, which could end up being 'transitory'.

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Pro:

More players = more money for BIS = better future project funding

Better publicity for our 'niche game'

Cons:

More and more cheaters too lame playing DayZ coming here and complain about being banned... :D

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These 'technical differences' are the core of the mod - the Hive master server. How many of your DayZ customers are going to stay for ArmA II, or for ArmA III for that matter, if this 'mod' is not ported on release?

Free MMORPG, which could end up being 'transitory'.

If they only want to play ArmA 3 for the sake of DayZ, then they've missed the bigger picture.

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W0lle, deffo more revenue is an acknowledged doubleplusgood point, furthermore, there's an untapped market for these kind of things,

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11151

Fallen Earth MMO has failed - lots of unsatisfied zed hunters that you could tap into.

If they only want to play ArmA 3 for the sake of DayZ, then they've missed the bigger picture.

Read their derp forums, it's not me implying that.

Edited by Iroquois Pliskin

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W0lle, deffo more revenue is an acknowledged doubleplusgood point, furthermore, there's an untapped market for these kind of things,

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11151

Fallen Earth MMO has failed - lots of unsatisfied zed hunters that you could tap into.

Read their derp forums, it's not me implying that.

I'm reading that link you posted. I'm beyond words. Hats, tattoos, leveling up, clothing? BarbieZ.

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Does it matter? If this crowd brings in more cash that will give us a beefier ArmA3, they can derp around as much as they want.

It's not like this crowd will start hanging on the traditional type of servers any way.

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Pro

it is still a milsim - running 10 miles with some jerrycans of fuel to your mate who has a boat so you can rescue your other mate on the island = very cool - the "side missions" crop up from natural evolution of the game - somone in trouble, or found a heli crash site etc = big news and a call goes out. There's a few of us longstanding arma clans working together so our community has actually expanded as a result of dayZ - we're meeting some great blokes with similar approaches to the game and working together in an environment of very palpable fear. The fear is what does it for most players. The fear and loneliness when you're tracking about on your own contrasts significantly with the relief when you RV with a friendly player (using TS - some sort of ACRE radios with a large array of frequencies would be good but would prolly hammer bandwidth) and get back to a friendly camp.

decking a few silly "hunters" when they try to take us on is awesome!

the joy of the road and especially the open ocean and the air after days of hard work repairing a boat or chopper - not having the Z fear for a bit - it's GREAT! we're all laughing and chatting in the boat like kids on a school outing...

more veteran play is great for the less experienced/immersed players in our clan - dayZ is a good training estate.

Con

none now the joining delay has been fixed. that was awful.

the tents disappearing occasionally is a downer but not a dealbreaker

can think of lots of improvements but that's not what the thread is about.

picking up on the earlier comment about Domination and Benny's Warfare, our Evolution is also very enjoyable and a kickback to arma1 fandom (kiljoys original) and ZoneKiller's battlezone is also awesome. developing some of these popular MP missions for release with the game or expansion would be a great idea - if they came with it then many more players would be in the MP servers in the early days. a lot of players dont even play the SP - I never have for any of the arma series! MP is the future. SP is always a nice to have if you have flu or something, but when you boot any shooter game up the first thing you want to do is jump in with your mates. Shipping arma 3 with a ready to go Warfare, Evolution, DayZ, Domination and Battlezone would be an amazing coup in terms of MP success.

Edited by eggbeast

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eggbeast,

I appreciated your efforts in the development of Evolution and as you've said it's close to Kiljoy's original, but the problem here is if you guys, or anyone else (Benny, Xeno) abandons their support it is game over for public server population and you will be left with DAAAYYZ. Thus, we need ArmA III shipped with out-the-box Warfare, Massive CTI Co-op and anything else that may revive the milsim experience - here I agree with you completely.

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