I'm looking for Proponents and Opponents of the DAYZ mod.

[jerryhopper 286]

For some background information on a upcoming radioshow, im investigation the 'fuzz' around the DayZ mod for Arma2.

Therefore, Im looking for people that have a outspoken opinion about DayZ.

If you have an outspoken opinion, Reply your motivation in this thread. Please keep your opinion 'short' and to the point.

Also keep in mind that people who posted the most interesting/motivated replies, could be invited as guest for a Show on LimnosRadio.

Here is your task.

If you are a Proponent:

Can you tell me WHY DayZ is your favorite mod for ArmA2, and what is the thing that makes this mod so Awesome.

If you are a Opponent:

Can you elaborate WHY you dont like the DayZ mod for ArmA2 ? ( im not searching for Zombie-shooter haters )

remember : Clown & Troll's will be ignored.

[tremanarch 6]

pro: it brings new players that love simple Action for arma!

contra: it brings new players that love simple Action for arma!

[maturin 12]

Do you really want people who just don't think DayZ is fun? Their opinions aren't relevant and they have no business criticizing an optional mod.

Sounds like you want people who think DayZ is harming ArmA's MP.

[Maio 293]

Pro: It brings new players in contact with the RV engine and Boheamia's development mentality. Sales increase and there is also a chance of crossovers to ArmA, crossovers which can benefit the series in the form of new possible mod and mission makers.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Pro :

(1) It brings fresh money to BI so that i can get free patches ;

(2) It shows everybody the sandbox side of the game, and how successful it can be.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think it's generally a fine mod. It's increased ArmA's profile hugely, and yet it promotes thoughtful gameplay. I have also heard that previously poor ArmA players who have left to play DayZ for a while, come back as better ArmA players.

But, I have no particularly strong opinions either way :)

[jerryhopper 286]

Do you really want people who just don't think DayZ is fun? Their opinions aren't relevant and they have no business criticizing an optional mod.

Sounds like you want people who think DayZ is harming ArmA's MP.

Exactly!

In my world: Every opinion is relevant.

[-Coulum- 35]

I don't play Dayz and don't necessarily like zombie games but overall I think it is very good for arma. More players, more money, more support. The only thing I don't like is how it somewhat misrepresents arma, at least to the uninformed player, and how it seems to overshadow the base game. I just hate when the top comments for an arma 3 vid, on youtube or what not, are "DayZ is going to be awesome on arma 3!" - Sometimes it feels like people miss out on the awesomeness of the base game due to Dayz... but I know these people wouldn't be playing arma in the first place without Dayz so really there is still net gain.

[convoker 0]

The good thing is that a few historic bugs finally has been fixed in last betas, also we can see some improvements in interface - mainly because of dayz community feedback, this improves ARMA2 by itself.

And now some bad things. First is we got a lot of newbs, casual players came on servers and just chating about how to use a bandage or what weapon is better.

The second is that all these newcomers just want to try this mod and save some cash.

I do not deny, A2 sales has bumped with dayz, but the more people cheated, got A2: CO with a single cd key for "jewel" version of A2:OA.

The most disgusting that this method is in the guide on the official forum.

I was trying affect the situation, but I'm not very politely hinted that this is "not my business" and I have to "direct the flow of thoughts in another direction".

I'm a fan of the Arma series, I bought the all games on CD's, DVD's and now on Steam.

I used to think that this game is not for everyone, and fps players simply bypass it, but now they are here, and even pretend to something, with game from the torrent ...

I'm sorry if I wrote something wrong or off the topic, no offense.

[jerryhopper 286]

I don't play Dayz and don't necessarily like zombie games but overall I think it is very good for arma. More players, more money, more support. The only thing I don't like is how it somewhat misrepresents arma, at least to the uninformed player, and how it seems to overshadow the base game. I just hate when the top comments for an arma 3 vid, on youtube or what not, are "DayZ is going to be awesome on arma 3!" - Sometimes it feels like people miss out on the awesomeness of the base game due to Dayz... but I know these people wouldn't be playing arma in the first place without Dayz so really there is still net gain.

The good thing is that a few historic bugs finally has been fixed in last betas, also we can see some improvements in interface - mainly because of dayz community feedback, this improves ARMA2 by itself.

And now some bad things. First is we got a lot of newbs, casual players came on servers and just chating about how to use a bandage or what weapon is better.

The second is that all these newcomers just want to try this mod and save some cash.

I do not deny, A2 sales has bumped with dayz, but the more people cheated, got A2: CO with a single cd key for "jewel" version of A2:OA.

The most disgusting that this method is in the guide on the official forum.

I was trying affect the situation, but I'm not very politely hinted that this is "not my business" and I have to "direct the flow of thoughts in another direction".

I'm a fan of the Arma series, I bought the all games on CD's, DVD's and now on Steam.

I used to think that this game is not for everyone, and fps players simply bypass it, but now they are here, and even pretend to something, with game from the torrent ...

These are the kind of reactions i am looking for. Gimme mooooaaaaaar!

[Maio 293]

I don't play Dayz and don't necessarily like zombie games but overall I think it is very good for arma. More players, more money, more support. The only thing I don't like is how it somewhat misrepresents arma, at least to the uninformed player, and how it seems to overshadow the base game. I just hate when the top comments for an arma 3 vid, on youtube or what not, are "DayZ is going to be awesome on arma 3!" - Sometimes it feels like people miss out on the awesomeness of the base game due to Dayz... but I know these people wouldn't be playing arma in the first place without Dayz so really there is still net gain.

Not to turn this into a discussion, but I see the people who say "DayZ is gonna be awesome on ArmA 3" or "I only bought ArmA for DayZ" as a mild version of the ones who say "ArmA is crap" or something along the same lines. The major difference between them is that the DayZ guys might influence their friends towards a buy, while the other group will do the opposite. So in the end, even if it might hurt that deep rooted ArmA fanboy spirit inside some of us, we have to be mature enough to look at the bigger picture, for the sake of the series and it's creators.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

CON: One particular group of (newly aquired) BIS customers gets a polished out-the-box, patch-up gamemode, while there are no official PVP milsim gamemodes included in ArmA II. You can mention Warfare all you like, but it is Benny who had saved it from becoming another generic Death Match, when BIS released it back in Armed Assault 1.

Now, they need to cater to their main playerbase, as well as the MMO crowds.

You can advise people to head to armaholic.com and download the myriad of missions there, but problem is - if you want your REAL game to thrive just as DayZ currently does, then support your own official missions on a regular basis: resolve balance issues, fix bugs - again, Benny, not BIS is doing that in this particular instance. The general public has trouble... even installing a simple mission, let alone a mod.

http://arma2.swec.se/server/list

I rest my case.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Flash Thunder 10]

Its just good.

+ More money for BI to expand operations, fixes bugs and increase performance in RV platform, give their developers more beer.

+ More recognition of Bohemia Interactive, more press coverage of Arma franchise

+ Possibility of new Arma modders and mission designers

Actually the only con is that DayZ is overwhelming Arma 2 servers, so once it goes standalone this issue will be gone.

[jerryhopper 286]

Not to turn this into a discussion,

That is not a problem, when this thread has served its purpose, i'll have it closed.

for now... discuss away!

Actually the only con is that DayZ is overwhelming Arma 2 servers, so once it goes standalone this issue will be gone.

Good point.

but marketing wise, you loose the potential playerbase that 'could' buy another ArmA DLC.

CON The general public has trouble... even installing a simple mission, let alone a mod.

Are you saying it's too hard/user-unfriendly/unclear for the generic public to install a mod?

So, should the 'client' be more friendly? so this mod wont flood the server-browser?

But then, WHY is DayZ so different?

the only thing that comes up is : Dayz is using one central database, the gameserver actually interact with external datasources - this is (aside from other creativity) the essential part of Dayz that makes this mod different. There are 'mods' that allow interaction with ingame-variables for a while, but Dayz seems to hit the right spot with their concept. And that brings me to the following simplification : STATS. DayZ is using statistics on a creative manner. Using databases to store enviromental information, creates this immense network of servers/players as the swec.se link proves.

Stats...

i learned years ago that, 'stats' was a 'not done' as subject to discuss about on these forums. i wonder, is that opinion still standing these days?

Other factor's

Steam:

Another thing that catched my attention was the steam-sales. The choice of bringing ArmA to steam seemed to be the right one. In my opinion : Without the accessebility of downloading and buying the game, combined with a 'steam client' and its huge playerbase, DayZ couldnt be as big as it is now.

Social media:

Have you been monitoring/searching twitter on the term 'DayZ' lately? its exploding! Try a DayZ search on youtube - massive results. i have no doubt about the effect of social media, and the success and widspread knowledge of dayZ.

Call me crazy, but i think this mod could be quite a change in the 'direction' where the RV engine was originally going..... or is this all part of the 'world domination' plan's of the Spanel bro's?!

Edited June 14, 2012 by jerryhopper

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

But then, WHY is DayZ so different?

the only thing that comes up is : Dayz is using one central database, the gameserver actually interact with external datasources

Precisely. The people who have bought ArmA 2 + OA regard DayZ as a free MMORPG, they couldn't give a shit about ArmA II and regard this mod as a separate entity from military simulation.

Look at dayzforum suggestion sub-section, they have absolutely no idea what this sandbox is all about, they request features of Rocket that are not in his power to implement, i.e. engine limitations.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2

Thread "Pending Update 1.7.1 Details" which had been posted just a day ago has 117,038 views, and here's some of the fixes in the DayZ 1.7.1 update,

Infected Behavior

- Infected can no longer see/attack through walls.

- Entirely new mocap'd attack and running animations

Get my drift? If MMO crowd can have quality content, then I expect BIS to recruit Benny at least for ArmA III's Warfare gamemode/mission for us PVP/milsim folks.

[Nuttex 10]

Pro:

it brings a lot of dosh to BI (A2: CO has been in Top 5 (mostly #1) Sellers on Steam)

It brings media attention to BI/ArmA

It brings new people

Contra:

Aforementioned media attention doesn't seem to be well informed about what they're talking about (for example: RoosterTeeth and their overview of DayZ, where they were like "what is Operation Flashpoint?! There was such a thing as ArmA 1?!") - though I wouldn't count this as an important aspect. What bothers me is how a lot of these sites and YT channels seem to build an image for ArmA where it's all about one zombie mod.

New people are mostly only interested in DayZ. In fact, Steam subforums of ArmA 2 and Operation Arrowhead are infested with DayZ threads (and many of them are "I only bought ArmA for DayZ" ones).

I think that what BI gains from DayZ's popularity is worth it all. There is a slight chance that DayZ may have a more quality support that the rest of community because of its fame and the kind of attention it brings.

[Phantom Six 25]

Pros:

1) BIS deserved more money for this excellent game they have made. Sales skyrocketed by 500% so more money for Bohemia Interactive to do good for ARMA 3

2) It got some of my real life friends actually interested in ARMA for the first time

3) Increases the life of ARMA 2 some more (lots and lots of server, I see plenty on vanilla as well as DayZ <checked with Six Launcher>)

4) Public coverage on youtube from some of the big guys and more media attention on ARMA 2 (I really believed ARMA should of won most user content on that last award over Starcraft 2 on the last E3 award thing but I guess this proves it though theres many other mods out there people had overlook)

5) More attentions and potential consumers for ARMA 3

6) It taught some big companies a lesson that modding can help them make some extra cash and is good for the community

Cons:

1) Most of those guys are some bad apples. Sometimes it'll be COD kids with ADHD just shooting everyone for fun or because they're bored and bad mouthing people (One of my friend already got spoken badly to by some of them).

2) Griefers joining the regular ARMA session to TK people (I usually play on private sessions so I don't have to worry about them)

3) Whiners. I looked through the steam forums and I don't get why people wouldn't buy ARMA 2 CO for $30 and kept begging for a sale when they're so hyped about DayZ, yet they wouldn't hesitate to dish out $60 for the latest COD, Ghost Recon, Halo, Battlefield, etc.

Overview: I find more good than bad in the introduction of DayZ. Of course some of the new guys may be annoying or bad, but like many other aspect of popularity, once something becomes popular, it'll attract many kinds of people. ARMA always have been a mil-sim but it has a very great sandbox aspect and modding potential. Basically, ARMA can be played in any way a person ever felt like. If someone wanted to do some zombie survival open world they could (DayZ), or individual missions with zombies (Celery's Zombies), or play it tactically (all your other coop missions), have some PvP (Warfare, CTI, etc), have revive missions, etc. I'll see whiners from DayZ on the forums sometimes about ARMA but I find it all very laughable and the more revenue for BIS the better, they deserve the money for supporting their community and caring about their games until the end. Plus, more sales for ARMA 3 is always good since now that ARMA 2 CO got public attention from DayZ, more buyers, more money, but at the same time BIS aren't going to just leave the milsim aspect of ARMA for the DayZ mainstream. From what we saw so far with ARMA 3 and E3, its all innovation and DayZ can either be ported over or be worked on as a standalone project. It's a win/win situation for BIS and its community hoping for ARMA 3.

[160thSOAR 10]

DayZ has increased the sales of ArmA2 by a huge amount, giving BIS much-needed revenue, publicity, and reward for their great work. It has also reinforced BI's views about the excellence of user modification, a view which I hope never changes. Finally, it has opened up ArmA2 to the larger world, getting more prospective sales for ArmA3.

On the other hand, it has brought in a lot of new players who behave very poorly and flooded multiplayer with DayZ servers, but that is a small price to pay for the good things it has brought about.

[gammadust 12]

I'll not getting too deep in my opinion, and while deviating a bit out of pros and cons theme, i have to say the following:

DayZ feels and plays so fresh, surprisingly, for what imo constitutes an actual novel gameplay genre, it already raises passions typical of matured blends of wine and good music.

The potential is almost literaly to wipe a slate clean in the gaming scene. It makes you think back what exacly is a "game" all over, what exacly means for one to "play" and entertain himself.

The concept is genuinely captivating opposite sides of the pond in the casual/cerebral way of play. These types of opposites are extremely energetic and hold both creative and destructive power. They hint at a change of paradigm. I am not joking, really!

I am watching very closely what will turn out of this. But i am look at very good prospects here, for many reasons. So many opportunities already accomplished that i am for now mostly flabbergasted.

I am a proponent in the sense that Arma will benefit greatly from this mod, weather DayZ is turned into a standalone, be ported to Arma 3, or else... the risks that do exist seem to be properly accounted for by BIS. Great task, great risk, but great results in managing it so far.

While not skeptic at all i would reserve more concrete judgement further down the line.

[Tonci87 163]

Well I don´t play DayZ because IMHO it turned into a Deathmatch with Zombies as special guests. Most players don´t even try to form teams and cooperate, they shoot each other on sight, or even play the game with the goal to kill as many players as possible. But he whole Mod is still Alpha and maybe Rocket will find ways to make them stick together. I dislike that many of those new players don´t have ambitions to play Arma and that every new report on Arma 3 is has comments like this one: "DayZ will be so awesome with this" all over it. IMHO this shows that many of those players really don´t care about what Arma is supposed to be.

But I still think that DayZ is good for Arma. Here is why:

It has helped to boost sales. More money for BIS=More ressources to develop Arma 3 and improve Arma 2 CO

Sudden flood of Beta Patches

New motivation for the Devs

Public awareness

New players. Although they need to be encouraged to try the original game, only that way some of them will become true fans of Arma.

It shows how mod friendly the engine is

The industry will have to notice that modding is not dead (people who say this are the people who want it to be true so that they can sell more DLCs) and that it can boost sales. This might have an impact on other games we like.

[BL1P 35]

Pros.

Increased sales for BIS

More beta updates

Massive MP stress tests for beta tests

Great new persistence system

Increase in the awareness of arma series in general

Good PR for modders all over

It has shown BIS how crap the Regular settings are and how they should be removed in arma3 (we dont need wall hack tags or 3rd or magic map markers)

Cons.

Too many kids from COD style games coming over to arma

High publicity attracts Hackers (probly related to the above)

Promotion of Run and Gun kill on sight DM style as it is at 1.7.0

Kinad a con but was fixed with the beta removal of side, global and command chat. I was getting fed up of explaining shit to 12 year olds who thought they knew better than others after 1 or 2 weeks when the others have played this series for about 11 years.

[Colossus 2]

Pros:

• It's a good mod. Made me see Chernarus differently.
  
• Attracted a large amount of gamers. Even a few talented ones.
  
• Created a lot of media coverage for DayZ, ArmA 2, ArmA 3, and BI itself. Which hopefully gave the gaming industry a chance to think differently about mod support (even though I guess Skyrim brings the same message)
  
• Provided BI the chance to fix and improve aspects of MP and bugs which either hadn't been discovered or deemed as a low priority.
  
• Increased sales.
  

Cons:

• Not a lot of the new players are interested in other aspects of ArmA other then playing DayZ. This might change over time, though.
  
• What was DayZ the first couple of weeks, with quite a lot of teamwork (given that most of the players at the time had a background in ArmA), has now mostly turned into a shot-on-sight type of mentality.
  

So you see, it's not all that bad.

Comments about DayZ in every ArmA related article is a bit annoying but expected. Still, it might give one or two the kick they needed to try out the DayZ mod and then perhaps ArmA itself. There is one other thing I didn't add to cons - because it's more of a general server browser "issue" - and that is: filtering away specific names, mods or missions. Like, if I wanted to see every server aside from DayZ servers. Currently you can only use the filter to find specific names, mods or missions. I hope that this could be resolved in ArmA 3.

Edited June 15, 2012 by colossus
A late redo of a sentence

[MavericK96 0]

I certainly don't hate the mod in general, but I will post a few shortcomings that I believe the mod has:

1) The day/night cycle is cool, but IMO it should not be real-time. Even on servers in the same time zone as me it will be night in the middle of the day, so I have to server-hop 2-3 times before I find one with daytime. Fairly annoying. Might help if in the server title it showed what time offset it was using or something. I also understand that night is important in the game but I don't want to have to hop on a 200-ping EU server just to play in daytime when it's daytime in my time zone.

2) Zombie animations/mechanics are fundamentally flawed due to the ArmA 2 engine. Zombies and players are expected to make quick snap movements and be able to quickly dispatch close-quarters zombie threats, but the ArmA 2 engine was never really built for that kind of thing, and thus you get clunky mechanics and difficulty in controlling/aiming at zombies due to the way they move. A lot of this could be solved if the zombies did not move so fast, which leads me to my next point...

3) Zombies should be slower, or at least some of them should be. It's a personal preference thing, but I dislike the fact that they can run just as fast as you and never give up. It makes gameplay extremely frustrating when you accidentally aggro a zombie in a town, since the only way to get them to stop following you is shoot them, which then attracts tons more zombies. Maybe if the game made it so they would just give up chasing you after awhile, it would be better, but currently it's just annoying.

4) I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but the bandit/player-killing mechanic needs to be changed. Right now there is literally no consequence for murdering other players, whether it's for their loot or just for the hell of it. At least before we had bandit skins and could identify these people, but now there is nothing like that and frankly I'm not sure why it was changed in the first place, especially to a system where there is now NO accountability rather than some. I realize it's "realistic" to allow people to do whatever they want, but in a gameplay situation (this is still a game, after all) it's not fun to get arbitrarily killed by some asshole after playing for several hours and collecting loot.

There's probably more, but those are my main issues with the mod.

I definitely like the fact that a lot of long-term bugs are getting addressed/fixed due to increased popularity with DayZ, but frankly I just want to see those things fixed for ArmA 2 / OA in general and don't really care that much about DayZ. :cool:

On that same note, I am getting tired of hearing noobs complain about how "shitty and buggy" ArmA 2 and the engine are because of DayZ, which is an ALPHA and does not necessarily represent the quality of ArmA 2 / OA as a whole.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Simple concept without any long-term objectives/mission goals. Most players see & play DayZ just as "DM with Zombies" or "Zombie skirmish". It is highly unlikely that so many new DayZ players will care about the military/sim origin of Armaverse.

[dmarkwick 261]

Simple concept without any long-term objectives/mission goals. Most players see & play DayZ just as "DM with Zombies" or "Zombie skirmish". It is highly unlikely that so many new DayZ players will care about the military/sim origin of Armaverse.

I'd guess that this game mode represents an experiment, to see what gameplay emerges from it. As on it's own, the DayZ world represents a rather dull game (as evidenced by me after playing Kronzky's SP version anyway), the emergent gameplay comes in via the MP interactions.

Rather like the most successful zombie films (i.e. Romero's early ones) where the zombies are only the background noise, and the real monsters are the people :)