Syria - What should we do if anything?

[oxmox 73]

BBC-Film Documentary; 4th Dec. 2017

Jihadis You Pay For 

 

Millions of pounds of British aid money have been spent trying to bring security to Syria and to protect the UK from terrorism.

But whistleblowers say our development efforts have been undermined by mismanagement, waste and corruption.

 

Using hundreds of leaked documents, reporter Jane Corbin pieces together the shocking truth about one of the government's flagship foreign aid projects. She discovers how some of the cash has ended up in the hands of extremists and how an organisation we are funding has been involved in executions and torture.

 

 

 link to the BBC Website & Documentary:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09j0fql

 

 

 

 

 

BBC-Report about the same story

UK foreign aid money 'diverted to extremists' in Syria

 

The government has suspended a foreign aid project after a BBC Panorama investigation found taxpayers' cash was being diverted to extremists in Syria.

Officers from a UK-backed police force in Syria have also been working with courts carrying out brutal sentences.

 

 

The Free Syrian Police (FSP) was set up following the uprising in Syria, to bring law and order to parts of the country that were controlled by opposition forces.

Britain was one of six donor countries paying for the project, which provides community policing to the rebel-held areas of Aleppo, Idlib and Daraa provinces.

 

ASI says the FSP is an unarmed community police force that brings the rule of law and safety to millions of people in a war-torn country.

An ASI spokesman said it "strongly refutes Panorama's allegations".

Adam Smith International, the British company running the project, said it strongly denies the allegations. 

 

It is intended to be an unarmed civilian police force, and not co-operate with extremist groups, but Panorama has found examples where that was not the case. Some of Panorama's allegations against the project include:

 

• Police cooperating with courts that carry out summary executions - including a case where two women were stoned to death
• Police being paid in cash and then being forced to hand over funds to an extremist group controlling the area
• Police officers being handpicked by an extremist group
• Dead and fictitious people are on the police payroll

 

 

Panorama has obtained ASI documents that show dead and fictitious people were on the police payroll.

The documents also show how some police officers in Aleppo province were forced to hand over cash to the extremist group - Nour al-Din al-Zinki - in control of the area.

 

Panorama also discovered that the Free Syrian Police provided support for courts run by the Syrian branch of al-Qaeda - Jabhat al-Nusra - which handed out extreme punishments.

 

read the full BBC report here 

[d_lukin 16]

Hey guys, what are they writing in Western media about today's attack with axes on Syria? In Russian media have written that they shot down 71 of 103 missiles, its true?

 

Spoiler

 

[lordfrith 401]

the guardian is reporting that syrian air defenses shot down at least 12 of over 100 missiles and that russian gov saying it didn't engage its missile defences (not sure why).... three targets where hit, putin's saying more areas where targeted but the missiles where shot down.

 

BBC has very little numbers and is mostly reporting the maniacal bluster of our glorious leaders as they merrily push us all towards nuclear Armageddon :(

 

EDIT: well maybe not... jeremy bowden of BBC (middleEast correspondant) tweated this rather interesting note

 

Quote

Limited punishment attack on Syria. Both Russia and the West more prudent than their rhetoric suggests. Regime targets not hit. Russians and Iranians not hit. Russians didn’t, they say, engage their air defence system. Both sides trying to avoid escalation.

 

so maybe we get to make arma not war for another day

[Tonci87 163]

I have the impression that this attack was simply a "show of force" that needed to be done because Trump couldn´t keep his thoughts away from Twitter, and he can´t be left looking like somebody who doesn´t follow up on such a threat.

[Valken 621]

2 hours ago, d_lukin said:

Hey guys, what are they writing in Western media about today's attack with axes on Syria? In Russian media have written that they shot down 71 of 103 missiles, its true?

 

  Hide contents

- Duvalla airfield - 4 missiles, all shot down;
- Dumeir airfield - 12 missiles, all shot down;
- Bley airfield - 18 missiles, all shot down;
- Shayrat airfield - 12 missiles, all shot down;
- unused Mezze airfield - 5 missiles were shot down;
- Homs airfield - 13 of 16 missiles were destroyed, no serious damage;
- objects in the Barz and Jaramani area - 30 missiles, 7 shot down; objects, partially destroyed, the objects themselves have not been used for a long time, people and equipment were not on them.

 

 

Any videos of the counter missile defense at work?!

[krycek 349]

I always bet that these dictators(Erdogan,Putin&co) want to save their skin to enjoy their luxury life so even if a nuclear power talks big about WW3 (or nuclear war) it's mostly for show but with that retard clown in WH I seriously have my doubts with this planet survival in the near future. Oh the irony that the voice of reason in that place has become your own generals.

 

To answer the thread title now that we're in 2018, the best answer is to get the hell out from there. ISIS is mostly destroyed and the question shouldn't be if we should do something in Syria but  "Should we start fuckin' WW3 for syrians?".

If we could have done something it should have been in 2012-2013 when Assad regime was collapsing and act fast before the russians came and reinforce him.

 

Not being a fan of the ruskies and their Cold War KGB/soviet/mafia bullshit but goddamn the West hypocrisy is huge these days!

So we didn't do jack shit when Assad and everyone from all sides used chemical weapons since 2011 but since 2017 we're such moralists.

Basically we just discovered last year "ok guys we can't let you die from chem weapons, we can't allow that but it's ok you can die from barrel bombs etc."

Since we were too stupid or indecisive what to do with Assad at the beginning of the Arab Spring we lost that train, throughout the following years the main objective was to deal with ISIS strongholds in there which we achieved last year. Right now what we're still doing there is to find reasons to start WW3 and funnily enough this time ain't the russians.

 

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, i'm not really confident about so called evidences since Colin Powell's BS. I would have preferred some direct support of Syrian kurds against Erdogan.

[d_lukin 16]

9 hours ago, Valken said:

 

Any videos of the counter missile defense at work?!

 

With normal quality only this

 

 

 

 

[Tonci87 163]

Not gonna happen, Turkey is a NATO Partner and can do with the Kurds pretty much as it likes. Also because they threaten to open the way for refugees into Europe if Europe does anything against them.

The perverse thing is that it is actually very much in Erdogans interest to keep the region destabilized. He doesn´t only wage war to remove the Kurds, he also needs war to "produce" refugees. Refugees that are his best bargaining chip in dealing with the EU.

[oxmox 73]

On 14.4.2018 at 1:39 PM, Tonci87 said:

I have the impression that this attack was simply a "show of force" that needed to be done because Trump couldn´t keep his thoughts away from Twitter, and he can´t be left looking like somebody who doesn´t follow up on such a threat.

 

 

Israel had aswell concerns....

 

Netanyahu Had 'Tense' Call With Trump Over U.S. Plan to Leave Syria, White House Officials Say
The conversation revolved around Netanyahu's concerns that the U.S. will withdraw from Syria and

allow Israel's enemies to gain a further foothold in the neighboring country, say White House officials

 

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/netanyahu-had-a-tense-phone-call-with-trump-over-plan-to-leave-syria-1.5977504

[kavoven 4]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/25/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attack-douma.html

 

This is really great journalism reporting on the chemical attack of the Assad regime that took place earlier this year!

[oxmox 73]

On 25.6.2018 at 3:29 PM, kavoven said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/25/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attack-douma.html

 

This is really great journalism reporting on the chemical attack of the Assad regime that took place earlier this year!

 

 

 

 

 

At first it was reported by Reuters and the international Press about how the OPCW report finds "chlorine used in an attack in Douma, Syria", but it seems it was in the meanwhile changed to "various chlorinated chemcials" were found...

 

 

 

Quote

 

Chemical weapons agency finds 'chlorinated' chemicals in Syria's Douma

A preliminary report by the world’s chemical weapons watchdog said “various chlorinated chemicals” were found at the site of an attack in Douma, Syria,

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-chemicalweapons/chemical-weapons-agency-finds-chlorinated-chemicals-in-syrias-douma-idUSKBN1JW2IY

[Tonci87 163]

Said who?

[nikiforos 450]

Guys I hope it's not against the rules to post this here but I made a video regarding the situation in Mid East.. Have a look!

 

 

 

[oxmox 73]

Possible Links to Terror Groups: The Netherlands cut off money for Syrian White Helmets [Standard.at - Sept. 17, 2018]

 

The Dutch government is now cutting its funding for the Syrian non-governmental organisation White Helmets and other NGOs, which it accuses of possible links to terrorist groups. This was reported in the daily newspaper "Volkskrant".

 

Last week, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent a report to the Parliament saying "very little transparency" about the white helmets. There is a danger that Dutch money earmarked for the organisation's rescue and salvage operations could fall into the hands of extremists or be used for illegal trade. 12.5 million euros of Dutch tax money have been transferred to the white helmets since 2015.

 

According to the report, the fact exist that this cooperation takes place at least occasionally is demonstrated by the fact that the white helmets are active in areas that control "unacceptable groups" for the Dutch government. The fact that the white helmets cooperate with local authorities belonging to these groups is "inevitable".

 

(google transl.)

 

more.....

google transl.: click me

 

or the NL Source: click me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

On 9/23/2018 at 1:33 PM, oxmox said:

 

According to the report, the fact exist that this cooperation takes place at least occasionally is demonstrated by the fact that the white helmets are active in areas that control "unacceptable groups" for the Dutch government. The fact that the white helmets cooperate with local authorities belonging to these groups is "inevitable".

 

The White Helmets have been proven to be on the side of extremest proxies in the region. As detailed by Eva Bartlett of Canada, and Tusli Gabbard of the United States who have both gone to Syria. One is a US congresswoman, and a Veteran with detailed knowledge of the conflict. 

 

It boils down to Geo-Politics. There's no Humanitarian nature to the Syrian conflict what so ever as it's often portrayed in "News". The White helmets were created by a former UK Military Contractor. Most White Helmet work is published with English audiences in mind despite working in an Arab republic along side proxy forces. Their main goal is Propaganda, not saving lives.

 

Russia  brought a child, father, and a number of other witnesses to the UN. who were "victims of the chemical attack" that happened earlier this year, and Western representatives walked out in protest, as well as there having been a News Blackout surrounding the event so as to keep the truth behind a fog of confusion. The Western Bloc had instead opted to strike Syria without OPCW confirmation, evidence, or an investigation.

 

Then comes the bizarre events that followed, including News "Journalists" sniffing a supposed backpack that was in the chemical attack zone, as well as the Western strike itself not making sense. You wouldn't blow up chemical stores in a country using hundreds of Cruise Missiles. Why? That would be the same as detonating Chemical weapons in huge amounts in the country and causing it to disperse into the air. The idea that striking these facilities that were not proven to house such weapons would do any good rather than harm, only proves the foresight that these locations indeed did NOT house chemical weapons, and were instead just an alternative option for the current administration to conduct a show of force.

 

This information can easily be found on various independent outlets such as

 

-Jimmy Dore Show

-The Liberty Report (w/ Ron Paul)

-South Front

-Global Research

-Tulsi Gabbard

-Rand Paul

-Eva Bartlett

-Jim Mattis (he stated there was no evidence early on during the events, but later changed his view due to political pressure, as all Politicians do for the interests of their donors)

[vilas 473]

@CaptainAzimuth it is simply "why"

globalists, so called NWO, banksters and some crazy old bilionares want world dictature, so they try to start WW3 by forcing multiculti to Europe by pushing non-compatible religion here, cause it causes violence and it also causes lowering work-price (lower salaries due to cheap-labor competition which natives cannot stand and cannot competee) 

it all was made to delete "good old Europe" to change it to some crazy marxists idea of "one common state like USSR ver 2" 

i do not belive in any chemical weapons there , i believe that some bank and corporation owners want to destroy Europe, so first they must make chaos in Middle East to move people from there to Europe to make WW3 in Europe (all those idiotic ideas like european union army , weapon ban for civilians , political correctness etc, it all goes to dictatorship )

we cannot look at "syrian" war only as war of one secular government with religious fanatics , it is war on "old" European way of life , look what happens in Europe due to "syrian" war :

- lots of agressive noncompatible with our lifestyle rapefugees come and ... our government in reaction to non-native violence make for example EU directive which limits acces to guns for civilians, which limits mobile phone cards, which sets lots of laws that limit civilians but give more power to secret police, regular police, armies , cenzorship in many countries called "politicall correctness, hate speech" etc. - in fact it is regular cenzorship like in communism , 

- workforce flow, natives earn less cause cheap labor moves across whole europe (so corporations earn more , people earn less)

- crazy european leftists call to unite EU countries the same way as USSR (one country with one central government despite 1000 years of different traditions and fights for independence from others)

- crazy european marxists call to make one EU army etc. (some west population is already brainwashed by marxism and they do not understand neither freedom nor tradition of own nation etc)

this all goes to WW3 or rather big civil war in Europe - thats why it happens in Syria, it is to destroy good old way of living in Europe , because banksters and corporations CEOs who make money from oil-wars do not live in Europe or they live in well secured "castles" but the only people who suffer are native europens (more and more freedoms are limited , nowadays we cannot even buy pre-paid SIM card to non-registered mobile phone due to "antiterrorist law" so we cannot even have lover/romance  without police know about it - this all goes to total control, USSR, 1984 etc), "syrian" war is proxy war to destroy european old way of freedoms and national states by world-elites which are meeting from time to time in "Bilderberg" (they say about "humanitarian crisis caused by Syrian war" while in fact is simply war on Europe, nowadays people from Indonesia, Bangladesh, Kongo, Sudan, Iraq, Eritrea are called "syrian refugees" - despite they lived 1000 km away from Syria and never been to Syria )  but because of it "antiterrorist laws" are being set and we are controlled more and more (plus flow of people cause we earn less and cannot find better job with bigger salary, the same Ukraine war caused to Poland when it comes to labor situtation) only one who is happy are banks 

[spooky lynx 73]

16 hours ago, vilas said:

it all was made to delete "good old Europe"

What you call "good old Europe" had been constructed due to competition with socialist state USSR and socialist system. WIthout such competition capitalist system just returns to its natural condition - late XIX - early XX century. All this strongly resembles a "Wishmaster" movie to me. "We want USSR and socialism to collapse!!! We want the freedom!!!" - "As you wish". So it's not about NWO or someone's mental disorder. It's just a return of usual capitalism that had been modified to withstand its socialist rival.

[vilas 473]

in "good old Europe" people had freedoms and lived much better than in socialism ;)

when I was young i was socialist - now i see it was totally wrong, cause socialism learn people to be lazy plus control people and limits freedoms and kills will to work and make inventions, 

compare level of living in USSR-block and west, in our block in our youth color-TV was huge wealth, when someone had car (waited in queeue if you were member of communist party) it was huuuuuuuuuuuge deal, when someone had washing machine - he was lucky , all was limited and given by state, 

in the same time on west people had not only color TV but PC 286, cars had air-condition, washing machine or freezer was normal thing in house, while for us it was taste of luxury after awaiting several years in queue (the only people who had it first were  police officers and party members)

so it was totally wrong , also lack of any freedom of speech, tortures for criticizing Lenin etc. 

 

nowadays if people work hard they can earn money, previously we were working 6 days a week and our salary was like 20-30 USD monthly , don't you remember your parents awaiting decade to obtain freezer or washing machine  ? cause my parents were , in Poland socialism was like this - all time crizis, all time poverty , waiting many years to get "bill in queue" to buy freeazer or washing machine , people on the west had air-condition in cars, we had to make laundry by hand cause awaiting time for washing machine was for example 3-5 years , fact is that socialism is self-destructive system and must collapse (as it shows our past , for people from west it is unimaginable what we were through , they cannot imagine that in 1985 when they played on ZX Spectrum we had to make laundry of our clothes by hand like in XIX century cause washing machine was "very limited luxury good", they had polaroid color cameras we had black-and-white photography , they had PC games , video players VHS , while we had only paper books and 1 governmental channel in TV with propaganda ) , sport cars were only for sons of communist party prime-minister cause average person was not able to buy himself car he wants , moreover also to buy car produced by state-factory we had to wait 5-10 years in queue (and you had work in some state factory to get "talon" (bill) ) 

 

communism murdered few times more people than Hitler , now european leaders seems to be communists, marxists etc.  and they want to change europe plus people like Soros and similar do all to destroy Europe and make "arab spring" causing "refugees" crisis which in fact goes to limit freedoms in here 

 

socialism ends like that : 

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kartki_(reglamentacja_towarów)

food stamps , limited food etc. :

 

  < people awaiting to buy any food and empty shops 

 

 

party members trying to explain why people cannot buy glass "because there is no glass at the moment we have crisis" - can someone in west imagine he cannot buy a cup made from glass because there is no glass in shops?  nope , it was all because of socialism which teach people "why work if you can get it from state" 

 

 

 

 

 

lack of cotton wool and suspenders (sanitary towel/napkin for women ) - this is how socialism ends - even sanitary  towel was missing in shops 

 

 

 

of course fighting with socialists is okay :)  socialims leads to police beating people for denying such economical nonsense like on movie above - militia protecting statue of Lenin , nowadays we have much more freedom and noone shoots to people except islamists , so also euro-commies like all those neo-marxists from EU commision should be destroyed cause their ideas lead to what we had in 80s and before , the only thing i remember from childhood was poverty that back than i was not realizing cause everyone was living in poverty (except party members and police officers and army officers) and there was no personal freedoms , even music was controlled by state (cenzorship bureau was deciding if artist can record music or not) 

nowadays those euro-idiots invented cenzorship again (called politicall correctness and "hate speech" ) , i had such childhood and i do not want such future ;) 

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

Quote

Syria - What should we do if anything?

Did we asked already...who is "we"?

 

We have both Assad and Putin Fanboys in here as well as their enemies (me for example). So how should we come to a common result what to do?

[spooky lynx 73]

2 hours ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

We have both Assad and Putin Fanboys in here as well as their enemies (me for example). So how should we come to a common result what to do?

Install Syrian civil war mod for ArmA2 (IMHO it's the most accurate) and play against each other.

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

Just now, spooky lynx said:

Install Syrian civil war mod for ArmA2

You mean for Arma3 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=874530860

 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

On 11/19/2018 at 10:56 AM, The Man Without Qualities said:

Did we asked already...who is "we"?

 

We have both Assad and Putin Fanboys in here as well as their enemies (me for example). So how should we come to a common result what to do?

We as human beings is probably the idea behind the "We".

 

But out of curiosity, i would like to know why you refer to anyone who supports the official Syrian stance as "Fanboys", rather than just regular people with their own thoughts and opinions. Perhaps it has nothing to do with bias?

 

We can easily look at the situations where the West has aimed to support an oppressed people, only to do the complete opposite. History proves this and i can easily provide you a list of over 20 countries, with almost all of them remaining in either famine, economic poverty, or on a hit list by the West for daring to hold it's own ground and decide it's own future as a sovereign state.

 

Then we look at Russia, while, not having the best international record, it's international initiatives aren't as far reaching, though, one could argue that perhaps it's due to Russia not having a Global Military and Intelligence reach to match that of the West.

 

But to the topic of Syria, and to defend the genuine aims of the Syrian people, you have to break through the Propaganda of both East and West to understand the core actions of Syria and it's strategic allies. In such a case it boils down ultimately beneficial to the Western world to support the official Syrian position despite their Eastern alliance. They've only been forced into that alliance by the actions of the much more powerful West, but the underlying aims of Syrians remain the same. A Secular, Sovereign state without the over reaching influence of foreign entities.

 

The majority of people in the West support this Multi-Polar world where nation states retain their sovereignty AND Peaceful Co-existence. The Majority of people understand that the reason Syria is still unsecured is because of Western Interventionist policies, in being that for example the US's biggest reason for being in Syria was first to remove Assad who they marked as they usually do to anyone they don't favor, as a "Brutal, Ruthless Dictator" in need of replacement to Liberate the people.

 

Of course upon such a failure to remove him, resulted in a shift from Removal to Proxy assistance and prolonging the war as long as possible.

 

Later upon this strategy backfiring in multiple ways, it's resulted in the return of a shift of foreign policy posture aimed at countering "Destabilizing Iranian Influence", despite the fact Iran's history is very inclusive. Of course people are still aware that this is only Political stupidity still related to just more "Pro-War" and Neo-Con strategy despite the world understanding the US's multiple failed attempted attacks on Iran.

 

The first being in the 1950's with the Overthrow of Iran, who's people were able to oust those put in power and democratically elect their own leaders, followed by the Iraq-Iran war which saw Iraq supported with chemical weapons support against Iran despite International Law regarding such weapons, and fast forward to today it's apparent that ONLY the minority of people support another war against Iran, because this Minority is the one funding and would likely be the only group to benefit from such a war, which also coincidences with the conflict in Syria.

 

I Digress...

 

The War in Syria happened to be the turning point to wake up the Majority in the West to begin taking actions that will replace the Minority class who favors a Pro-War/Interventionist Policy based on fabricated conditions to mis-inform people into supporting what would otherwise be seen as crimes against humanity for decades. We've seen War after War without a single benefit to the people who we've claimed to go and support, with leaders only now becoming bold enough to express their sole purpose of initiating these Wars, as just good business. It's not different today in places like Yemen, which ultimately break down to just another Geo-Political struggle perpetuated by Military Corporations who benefit the most from such conflicts, and their profit directly transfers over to the Death of human beings, whether armed or in many cases, Un-Armed and innocent.

 

We, as in respectively here in the US, it's becoming apparent that the empire needs a deep cleaning to remove those in positions that were never meant to have such powers, so as to relentlessly conduct global military initiatives, much less go to war without the complete approval of Congress, much less the people whom they represent. The consensus is getting stronger, in that War for Profit, and Politics for Profit is not sustainable, especially for a nation that was originally founded based on the complete opposite of un-just actions of tyrannical regimes, and that we today have now become the greatest tyrannical regime of them all, which must reversed yesteryear.

 

[vilas 473]

Putin fanboys ? ehhh it is not supporting of Putin that people support secular government in region where theocracies do not respect rights of Christians or atheists , it is completly wrong if someone (in this case US) attack only secular guarantee to keep state out of sharia laws , telling that someone who is against jihadists is Putin fanboy is ridiculous 

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

Well, I am German, the first fault was not invading Syria together with France back in 2010 when all that shit hit the fan. Now we have all the refugees tumbling across and around the Mediterran Sea, all the killed peaople, all the destroyed assets and that costs more than a nice short war against assad after all.

Ex-Yugoslavia is IMHO the best example how to tacle such a situation. You give everyone around there a slap and kill everyone who still waves around with a gun.

But not by an bastard like Putin.

You all remember how the Russians did their own thing in Yugo-war and wanted to support the serbs only?

I guess Russians and Putin are even worst as the russians around 1991.

Putins collection of "friends" it looks like a summit in Southpark-hell together with Adolf.

I guess the best is even killing Putin, then, without support, all those other regimes in Iran, Syria etc collapsing soon after.

And in Ukraine would be peace.

Sounds simple minded? Indeed! But Putin is similar, he want's to be the Tzar of Eurasia and he will continue pushing the limits until someone is slapping his fingers, not before.

Sounds like I hate Putin and Russians? Indeed! Like I hate Americans.

Russians let Putin happen, Americans let Trump happen, Germans let Adolf happen. So the citizens are guilty and responsible - no excuse.

 

Phew........