Syria - What should we do if anything?

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC News) Syria war: US warns over Turkish-Kurdish violence

 

 

The US says fighting between Turkey, pro-Turkish rebels and Kurdish-aligned forces in northern Syria is "unacceptable" and must stop.

Clashes in places where so-called Islamic State (IS) was not present were a "source of deep concern", the US envoy to the anti-IS coalition tweeted.

Turkish forces have attacked what they say are Kurdish "terrorists" since crossing the border last week.

But the Kurdish YPG militia says Turkey just wants to occupy Syrian territory.

Ankara says it aims to push both IS and Kurdish fighters away from its border.

 

Turkish forces and allied factions of the rebel Free Syrian Army (FSA) forced IS out of the Syrian border city of Jarablus on Tuesday and have since pounded neighbouring villages held by Kurdish-led, US-backed Syria Democratic Forces (SDF).

Turkey has insisted Kurdish militia, which it regards as terrorists, retreat east across the Euphrates river.

 

It seems that Turkey got the tacit approval of Assad supporters, Russia and Iran, to prevent the Kurds from creating a united Kurdish area in Irak and Syria. So now a NATO member is attacking a US (and all Western allies) backed faction. I suppose Putin is grabbing popcorn  :popcornsmilie: And IS too, of course.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

(BBC News) Syria war: US warns over Turkish-Kurdish violence

 

 

It seems that Turkey got the tacit approval of Assad supporters, Russia and Iran, to prevent the Kurds from creating a united Kurdish area in Irak and Syria. So now a NATO member is attacking a US (and all Western allies) backed faction. I suppose Putin is grabbing popcorn  :popcornsmilie: And IS too, of course.

 

Just asking... How would you like, if some agressive minority would want to rip out a part of your own country? Would you like it? Would you support it? Kurds deserve what they got. Damned terrorists!

 

How strange... NATO member attacking a US backed faction... You didnt complain when turks were bombing IS... Or when any NATO member bombed Al-Kaida... 

[ProfTournesol 956]

Just asking... How would you like, if some agressive minority would want to rip out a part of your own country? Would you like it? Would you support it? Kurds deserve what they got. Damned terrorists!

 

 

I won't reply on the rest of the post which doesn't make sense. But about that, it's funny to call the Kurds terrorists and the Pro Russian separatists in Ukraine patriots.

[Tonci87 163]

Not to mention that the Kurds have been supressed by the Otoman Empire and the Turks for a very long time....

 

Add to that that Erdogan had a real chance to forge a real bond between the Turk and the Kurds in a fight against ISIS, instead of that he decided to support the IS and use his military against the Kurds. If you ask me, the Turks deserve what they get (well, not all Turks, mostly Erdogan).

[dontknowhow 33]

Not to mention that the Kurds have been supressed by the Otoman Empire and the Turks for a very long time....

 

Add to that that Erdogan had a real chance to forge a real bond between the Turk and the Kurds in a fight against ISIS, instead of that he decided to support the IS and use his military against the Kurds. If you ask me, the Turks deserve what they get (well, not all Turks, mostly Erdogan).

Erdogan has been going down pretty hard on the Kurds. I understand he wants to defend his territory, but he's going a bit too far.

Besides, we are talking about the Kurds in Syria. As far as I know the US has always classified the Kurdish guerrilla in Turkey as terrorists. Not sure about the EU.

 

Edit: also, I'm not sure if the Americans want to defend just the Kurds or also their own forces on the ground.

[pedeathtrian 99]

Just asking... How would you like, if some agressive minority would want to rip out a part of your own country? Would you like it? Would you support it? Kurds deserve what they got. Damned terrorists!

What you call an agressive minority is 30-40 million people. All of them are terrorists? What they deserve is their own state. With their own territory, laws, military, etc.

Hell, they alone could beat the shit out of that IS thingy long ago if not interfered by Erdogan, Putin, Assad, Western coalition and almost every other so called anti-ISIS conflict participant.

[Tonci87 163]

The US always had to classify the Kurdish militias as terror organisations because that is what Turkey demands of you if they are gonna let you use their military bases....

And of course, some Kurdish militias have been involved in actual terror attacks. Mostly limited to blowing up police or soldiers though

[Ltf 381]

The US always had to classify the Kurdish militias as terror organisations because that is what Turkey demands of you if they are gonna let you use their military bases....

And of course, some Kurdish militias have been involved in actual terror attacks. Mostly limited to blowing up police or soldiers though

The part that "Mostly limited to blowing up police or soldiers though"  is not true at all! If you don't know the root of pkk(or ypg, whatever you wanna call them they are all same) they exist long before isis. Turkey has been fighting them for 20-30 years now. AND NO, THEY ARE NOT JUST KURDS. They are more complicated. There are caught armenians, arabs, russians between them. Turkey even caught a german spy in pkk(and no, its not normal, he was actually fighting with pkk against turkey). Lots of nato countrys special forces trained them and gave weapons. And most fucked up part is these terror groups abused kurds first. They threatened kurds to join them. They killed, stole, raped and all of these weren't for "freedom for kurds". I've been a citizen of Turkey for 18 years, I love my country(not government), and my whole family is Kurdish. If you wonder, yes, I was abused by some dickheads just because i was kurdish, but tbh every country has this kind of ignorant people. Kurdish people suffered at the time. The government used to ignore the east side of country and make investments mostly in west and people used to think kurds were bad. It's changed now, but not because pkk had fought for it. Like USA used to racist(they even had racist laws). Did gangsters help solving the problem? I may don't know as much as my elders, but when they talk about pkk, you can only hear them swearing.

 

In short, you can't call them kurdish militias who fight for their freedom.

[ProfTournesol 956]

But who were defending Syrian kurds against IS ? Certainly not Turkey.

[Ltf 381]

But who were defending Syrian kurds against IS ? Certainly not Turkey.

It still doesn't give them any right to terrorize people in Turkey.

[ProfTournesol 956]

It still doesn't give them any right to terrorize people in Turkey.

Indeed. It seems that Turkey has good relationships with Iraki Kurdish peshmergas.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

I won't reply on the rest of the post which doesn't make sense. But about that, it's funny to call the Kurds terrorists and the Pro Russian separatists in Ukraine patriots.

 

Hahahaha... Typical... You perfectly know that Im right, but you wont admit, so instead dodge the question entirely... The questions were very simple, everybody can answer them, and the answer is obvious. Anybody who has even a tiny bit of love for his/her country answers without hesitation "NO", only traitors answer "YES". But well, western europe is full of traitors (=liberals), so I dont wonder about that...

 

And btw, there are no "separatists" in eastern ukraine. They do NOT want a separate country. They started their resistance movement, because they dont want to be slaves of the Troika (EU, ECB, IMF). If one looks back, its evident that they were right. Just look at the cesspit, called "ukraine". Corruption is higher than ever before, ordinary people are poorer than ever before, the IMF dictates everything, they even lost a sizeable portion of their own land to western corporations... Next year, Monsanto begins sowing their cancer-crops. People of eastern ukraine were brave enough to say NO to EU, they deserve respect for this! 

 

Here is the truth you brainwashed westerners desperately want to hide, you immediately call it propaganda, but you cant hide the facts no matter how you try!

 

Oh, and also, dont pretend that NATO didnt support terrorist organizations. "moderate" "democratic" opposition never existed in syria, all of them radical jihadists, even your media admitted it!

 

[dontknowhow 33]

The US always had to classify the Kurdish militias as terror organisations because that is what Turkey demands of you if they are gonna let you use their military bases....

I'm not so sure. Reagan (and Margaret Thatcher) famously labeled Mandela a terrorist. Mandela has been a terrorist until 2008. I think they do that simply because they are trying to subvert an important ally and NATO member.

 

And of course, some Kurdish militias have been involved in actual terror attacks. Mostly limited to blowing up police or soldiers though

I don't think this is fair. Erdogan doesn't do his things lightly, but it's not that the Kurds are pussies. They are serious fighters, and they are proving it.

 

Erdogan's mistakes (considering that he is trying to defend the territorial integrity of his country, like many other countries besides Turkey) are the lack of respect for human rights, and the absolute closeness to any possible dialog with moderate Kurds. Which fits his authoritarian style.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

USA showed its real face! They are now actively supporting the Islamic state!

 

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Well, getting a rain of nuke is a bit too much. There are lots of innocent people out there. On the other hand, I totally agree with you. The government, totally controlled by megacorporations and bankers, is indeed do nothing but wage wars, bringing destruction and suffering around the world, solely for their own profit! And of course domination over the whole world, to create new world order.

Too bad Mimi Al Lahan does not get more media coverage, everything she says is true!

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

To be fair this whole thing is a mess. But i think we all know it's a massive cluster of political, ethical, religious, and even Zionist problems. What's the biggest problem i see in this entire situation however? US and Russia. They've always been fighting for some kind of influence over in the Middle East, and this is a clear sign that's is gotten out of hand. Many of you may not know but the US actually gave the go ahead years ago after the Syrian Regime supposedly crossed the Red Line that had been placed by the Obama Administration, that the NAVY could fire it's ballistic missiles into the country and take out nearly 600+ targets. However, suddenly, Russia turned up. The tone changed, and now Russia has been pointed out as being the bad guy. Now, a few years of fighting, US backs rebels, and Russia backs government. Rebels received weapons and aid directly, as well as indirectly. Regime forces receive reforming, training, logistical and technical support, as well as Air Support by the Russian Aerospace Forces. Later Daesh (ISIL) attack Iraqi Kurds. Words idea ever, because it pisses off the Kurds in the entire region as well as the Peshmerga. Kurds start pounding Daesh, and the US backs the Kurds/Peshmerga also. Turkey is on the sidelines with Saudi Arabia, while Iran backs and supports some ground forces fighting against Daesh, and the FSA, who are two rebel groups who ended up mixing in the conflict. Later, Russia reveals Turkey is working with Daesh to gain Oil, and releases satellite Data and other intelligence resources to prove it. Turkey denies, and later releases conflicting reports, one of the most controversial being, "even if i was buying oil from Deash, it wouldn't harm my image". Even further later, Russia starts hitting Oil convoys going into Turkey. Turkey very soon after shoots down Russian jets that reportedly skimmed Turkish airspace for a disputed 13-17 seconds, in which time Turkey claims they warned them multiple times to leave the airspace. The world criticizes Turkey at the same time as holding Emergency meetings with NATO, which conclude later on that Turkey was in the right, and that NATO has their back. Germany soon after withdraws Anti-Air units from Turkey. Sometime later, Russia and Syria start making gains after only months of limited assistance. They eventually regain a substantial amount of ground. more months later, closer to current time, closing in on Aleppo, and various countries are pushing for both no fly zones, as well as cease fires. fast forward to current time frame, a cease fire is negotiated. Israel starts hitting Syria for stray mortars, and eventually, Syrian Anti-Air responds. Both sides claim conflicting reports. Then the US coalition ends up killing 60+ Syrian soldiers while conducting an Air Raid on Daesh. Russia claims the US did it on purpose, while the US claims it was a total mistake. After that, a UN convoy ends up being hit, and no one knows who's responsible. Russia blames the US for crippling the cease fire, meanwhile Turkey and the US criticize Russia for attacking the UN convoy. Behind the lines, somewhere in between the cease fire, a US command center apparently in Aleppo was struck, killing officers from carious NATO member states.

 

As of right now, the situation remains all members pointing fingers at each other for various screw ups, and conflicting interests.

 

In my opinion, there is only one way out of this conflict that wouldn't result in a third world war. That being said, respectively, as US and Russia have been the two most sources of conflict in the Middle East largely fought through proxy influence, it's important these two nations end all of the foolishness, and work together, despite their differences to fight the rebels and bring the country back into Syria command, and yes, this means under control of Assad. Now before you call me crazy, keep in mind that last time we tried toppling the dictator first, didn't work in two other countries, which US and even NATO find it near impossible to gain control of. Once Syria is under control, then the US and Russia form a pact that joints their efforts against Anti-Terrorism no matter what happens. At the United Nations, US and Russia as well as Syria, must now ensure that Assad be tried for war crimes, as well as jointly figuring out who leads Syria after Assad when he's convicted of what ever crimes are found. Both Russia and the US are now bound to work together to fix, restore, and grow Syria back from the ground up, and thus, creating a situation where refugee's and return to help rebuild. This will form the foundations for future efforts against such Proxy wars, and teach the world that the two powers mostly responsible for the radical terror in the Middle East and North Africa have come together to fix the problems they've created, despite their past conflicting efforts. Both countries can invest in Syria, and through those actions and grow their continued efforts to cooperation that could eventually help solve the European problem as well.

 

However, if this is not done, the only other way i can see this going, is a war between Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Russia, NATO, Jordan, Israel, NATO, as well as Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, and China as a wildcard. This would be one of th ugliest conflicts man has ever seen, and we may now life to tell the tail. It's getting to that point where without dialogue, and cooperation, conflicting proxy conflicts are becoming more direct. A more direct conflict will lead to a full blown conventional war, which will eventually turn into a tactical nuclear, and then total nuclear war.

 

This is my observation. Take it with a grain of salt.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Very well said!

 

The problem is, that lots of people, especially in the west, see it differently, but actually, there is no black and white. Only shades of grey. There were surely problems with the Assad regime. But on the other hand, the "FSA" is also nothing more than just another jihadist, extremist group.

So yes, Syria should be united under the current regime, and then they could be judged for crimes, if there were any...

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The FSA isn't a terror group. The FSA are Syrian Citizens that chose to fight their government. This is the root cause of the Syrian Civil War, except it got more complex when Daesh infiltrated their ranks, fast forward a few years with different super powers and regional powers putting in their influences, and things drastically change. This is the source of the Cease Fire. Russia and Kerry wanted to halt the fighting so that the US could figure out who the hell is who, but we can see that didn't work out. 

[M. Glade 524]

FSA is a bullshit "moderate muslim" terror group, they execute Syrian soldiers who surrender, and they want support from the west? Cmon, open your brains, its clear who to hit and not.

 

And with your cold war bullshit, go back to CWA lol. The US and Russia are on the same side now, they both want to eliminate ISIS. And yous forget that the majority of the Syrian population ARE BEHIND YOUR HOUSE, WORKING AT THE  7/11, you forget what happened to these refugees. So I would burn the populous with whatever chemicals I can find.. 

 

Imho, the U.S and Russia should start larger scale operations in Iraq and Syria, finish this shit once and for all. I know buckets of names of reserve and active duty Soldiers & Marines who are dying to take a pick at an ISIS fool. Once the bigger problem is solved, you can focus on whos throwing soap on eachother. 

[archbishop lazarus 24]

The FSA isn't a terror group. The FSA are Syrian Citizens that chose to fight their government. This is the root cause of the Syrian Civil War, except it got more complex when Daesh infiltrated their ranks, fast forward a few years with different super powers and regional powers putting in their influences, and things drastically change. This is the source of the Cease Fire. Russia and Kerry wanted to halt the fighting so that the US could figure out who the hell is who, but we can see that didn't work out. 

 

I would avoid using the term "FSA". Today, it is actually a loose conglomeration of different groups, whose common goal is toppling the Assad regime. Yes, there are (or were?) moderate groups, but unfortunately, there are lot more jihadist radicals, like Ahrar as Sham. Already in 2013, at least 50% of them were jihadists. Today, god knows. I'd estimate 95%. They openly cooperate with Jabhat Fateh al-Sham (ex Al-Nusra Front), also with Al-Qaeda, rarely, even with IS!

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/extremist-element-among-syrian-rebels-growing-worry-f8C11115141

 

Acutally, the real FSA existed for a short time only, at the beginning of the civil war, and consisted of deserted SAA soldiers. But later, all of them were absorbed by the successor groups.

 

I'd strongly recommend checking Mimi Al Laham's videos (Syrian Girl)

https://www.youtube.com/user/SyrianGirlpartisan/videos 

[spooky lynx 73]

The FSA isn't a terror group. The FSA are Syrian Citizens that chose to fight their government.

I'd like to remind that the similar style of fighting used by Hamas and Hisballah is labeled as terrorism. The same goes to basques and those who want Northern Ireland out of UK.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Note that i said add in years of conflict, with various groups brandishing their influence and strength throughout the region. The FSA today, if even still a group, is far from what it was when it started out. Don't take that out of context.

 

As for you Mr.Glade, you seem to have some sort of grudge. Keep in my, the Cold War elements of this entire situation you appear to think have vanished in history, are quite real, and to deny it is foolish, as this history is still continued unfolding right before us. You learn this stuff in school, because what happens now, is what will be written and learned from. Also to call Russia and the US on the same side, also a bright as day example of how either mis-informed you are, or how blissfully arrogant you are... intentionally. Russia, Iran, Syria, along with Wild-Card China, are working together. The US is completely out of that wheel, and yet, the US is only trying to get closer with Russia now, because they're realized how terrible their policies were when Russia became apart of the equation in their Middle Eastern divide and conquer. Let me remind you, everything i had said were factual events, not baseless rhetoric. Those were observations gathered from years of simply watching the conflict unfold, and observing both sides of the conflict. It's easy as hell the West wanted to Syria what they did to Libya. And you think Russia was in on that? Obviously not. It's also clear that if the US wanted to destroy Daesh, they wouldn't have invaded Libya when they were still a major threat that could've spread into the region. It was either intentional, or a tactical failure of massive proportions. I don't think the US with all it's know how would screw up that bad, leading to the latter. If the US and Russia were together on this, they wouldn't be literally scorching each other at the United Nations council. But they are.

 

Secondly, no one has forgotten about the Refugee crisis. Trust me, i know, as i've supported my country letting them live here for the time being. It's unfortunate the US and Russia have to let this conflict carry on for so long because of their political and influential differences, but that's just what it is... Politics. But as i've stated in my original post, it's something the US and Russia have to work out, obviously, they're responsible for the mess. But burning people with chemicals? I'm not sure who you were trying to offend with that statement, you're just making yourself look bad, honestly. There's a reason the world agreed to move the Chemical weapons out of Syria before this mess happened. You saw what happened when they started using chem weapon reports to try and bring major countries into the conflict.

 

As for everything else you said, it's just rubbish.

[M. Glade 524]

Libya? Lol.

 

By the way, there is a difference between real war and CSAT vs NATO. Support the refugees, France hasn't had enough eh? They are dropping chlorine, which isn't the most toxic chemical thats been used, its meant to disrupt - similar to tear gas, why poison hundreds in protests with tear gas right? No one is retarded to start another cold war, maybe in your mind, you need to look at the bigger picture. Not the ArmA 3 one.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Libya? Lol.

 

By the way, there is a difference between real war and CSAT vs NATO. Support the refugees, France hasn't had enough eh? They are dropping chlorine, which isn't the most toxic chemical thats been used, its meant to disrupt - similar to tear gas, why poison hundreds in protests with tear gas right? No one is retarded to start another cold war, maybe in your mind, you need to look at the bigger picture. Not the ArmA 3 one.

Firstly, this is the off topic section. This is in no way, shape, or form related to a Video Game, which people play from time to time as a hobby.

 

Secondly, when did i mention France? Here in Canada, we've got other nations looking at our refugee placement policies, because they work so damned well.

 

Thirdly, If you think no one is dumb enough to start a third World War, you'd be mistaken. You should never underestimate the stupidity of mankind. Hell, look at the two candidates the US population, over 100 million people, selected those two clowns to be their president. On one side, you have a man who doesn't know how to hold a decent conversation because his Ego's probably over shadowing every other thought process. On the other side you have a woman who nearly thinks her being a female is one of the biggest reason she should be president, but doesn't realize a large portion of things she's done in the past have had major negative affects on the country. Not to mention she blabs about Democracy, but undermined it at the same time, which was exposed by Wikileaks. If it takes Wikileaks to leak BS being hidden by career politicians, we got a problem. These are the people who are going to be in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth... Yet those are the same people who will tell you how great Democracy is when i can name you 10 other countries who's Democracies are better than theirs, my own country, is one of them. This isn't some make belief rant. This is real life. But if you can't see it, it's not my problem. You're just another number in my mind, nothing significant. There's more to learn, and a lot more than just your opinion is leaning on this election, and ultimately, the war in Syria. Two Super Powers fighting, along with the worlds biggest religious war in the mix. It's anyone's guess how it will turn out. Everyone's gearing for war. Everyone, and another global conflict can't be ruled out. It has to be prevented, not ignored. It's already looming, and there's more than enough evidence to prove so. As i said before, it will end the day US and Russia end their game they've been playing since the end of WWII/Cold War. None are innocent at this point.

 

Here's an interesting article.

 

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/americas-bombing-in-syria-last-week-was-no-mistake-heres-why-1466970

 

Also, regarding Libya, i suggest you got check out the UK Parliament report released that proves alternate motives behind the invasion and destruction of Libya's former government. IT's quite obvious that these actions were never merely an act of glorified spreading of Democracy. If they wanted to improve Democracy, they would probably start at home, where voting fraud is one of the biggest issues.

[M. Glade 524]

Firstly, this is the off topic section. This is in no way, shape, or form related to a Video Game, which people play from time to time as a hobby.

 

Secondly, when did i mention France? Here in Canada, we've got other nations looking at our refugee placement policies, because they work so damned well.

 

Thirdly, If you think no one is dumb enough to start a third World War, you'd be mistaken. You should never underestimate the stupidity of mankind. Hell, look at the two candidates the US population, over 100 million people, selected those two clowns to be their president. On one side, you have a man who doesn't know how to hold a decent conversation because his Ego's probably over shadowing every other thought process. On the other side you have a woman who nearly thinks her being a female is one of the biggest reason she should be president, but doesn't realize a large portion of things she's done in the past have had major negative affects on the country. Not to mention she blabs about Democracy, but undermined it at the same time, which was exposed by Wikileaks. If it takes Wikileaks to leak BS being hidden by career politicians, we got a problem. These are the people who are going to be in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth... Yet those are the same people who will tell you how great Democracy is when i can name you 10 other countries who's Democracies are better than theirs, my own country, is one of them. This isn't some make belief rant. This is real life. But if you can't see it, it's not my problem. You're just another number in my mind, nothing significant. There's more to learn, and a lot more than just your opinion is leaning on this election, and ultimately, the war in Syria. Two Super Powers fighting, along with the worlds biggest religious war in the mix. It's anyone's guess how it will turn out. Everyone's gearing for war. Everyone, and another global conflict can't be ruled out. It has to be prevented, not ignored. It's already looming, and there's more than enough evidence to prove so. As i said before, it will end the day US and Russia end their game they've been playing since the end of WWII/Cold War. None are innocent at this point.

 

Here's an interesting article.

 

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/americas-bombing-in-syria-last-week-was-no-mistake-heres-why-1466970

 

Also, regarding Libya, i suggest you got check out the UK Parliament report released that proves alternate motives behind the invasion and destruction of Libya's former government. IT's quite obvious that these actions were never merely an act of glorified spreading of Democracy. If they wanted to improve Democracy, they would probably start at home, where voting fraud is one of the biggest issues.

 

Before you talk about America's clown, talk about your own, Trudeau. I left Ottawa as soon as that French terrorist went into office, Putin is on the side of Trump - everyone knows that. So you're saying stopping strikes on ISIS and letting Islamics live on CFBs are the way to go? Dude thats fucking pathetic, right now no one wants to continue the mess in the Mid East. 

 

Even the Iraqi Government has had enough (or whatever was left since the U.S. invaded). I'm glad we are still keeping "advisers" there, but is 70 guys really enough? Trump will hold office, we'll see what unfolds, but from what I see so far is something people have been waiting for a long time, greater U.S. - Russia relations. I'm sure the libtard up north is going to be pissed, 

 

As for Libya I can't comment.