Syria - What should we do if anything?

[dontknowhow 33]

600 years ago - makes huge difference,

they were also doing the same 500 years ago , but we made step forward, 

less than 400, to be precise. Not that it makes a big difference.

Yes, they are a bit behind. Why do you I think I say it's a cultural matter?

It's not that our step forward is huge anyway. We ended up doing more or less the same things, just with fascism and communism. And that was 30 years ago.

 

we do not need here another middleages 

we do not need it there either. Neither do they

[vilas 473]

they love it - otherwise they would end it like us, 

they never had revolutions against "god" they had revolutions "for god" - opposite to us

their culture is focused on religion, our on our 1 life 

[dontknowhow 33]

they love it - otherwise they would end it like us,

we ended it with weapons. They are trying to do the same

I don't have the feeling they love it, to be honest. We definitely are following different news.

 

they never had revolutions against "god" they had revolutions "for god" - opposite to us

maybe you missed all the moderates trying to do like us

 

their culture is focused on religion, our on our 1 life 

that's now. Some time ago it was much less so

[vilas 473]

Indeed.

on west there are 2 anti-Christian stereotypes: 

1) evil Christians organized crusades and started invading victim peacefull muslim world :

https://youtu.be/I_To-cV94Bo

truth is opposite

2) evil Christians "do the same, look at nazis and holocaust" - while nazis were.. neo-pagans and Himmler was opressing church and tried to set again paganic beliefs from ancient times 

 

west bases its guilt on colonial complex - western people feel guilt for past colonies, on this guilt other culture "public relations managers" built "you are not better"

and west should stop this guilt - cause it leads to suicide in case of being abused by opposite side ,

why someone in west hates Christianity so much that they love other religions - is beyond this topic, 

west should stop thinking like "we are guilty, they have the same rights" - cause it will end following "you will fund their 5 kids, their immams will tell to behead you after those 5 kids will create voting majority and vote sharia democratically" because you allow those immams (but you arrest those who say about those immams as "nazis, racists, hate crime")

and your precious civilisation will fall down like Ancient Rome fallen , but this time it will be replaced by caliphate, 

 

 

 

maybe you missed all the moderates trying to do like us

and thats why even if they had elections - moderate loose elections

 

 

we ended it with weapons. They are trying to do the same

I don't have the feeling they love it, to be honest. We definitely are following different news.

 

haha, yea, they try... Taliban won in A-stan few years before 9/11 

you don't feel they love it - why in OUR LAND when they could be finally free they start forcing sharia ? haha

of course i follow other media - my media do not call "woman and children" 20-30 years fit male

my media do not hide informations about no-go zones or accidents when muslim refugee attacks native pregnant woman for having cross necklace

my media do not say it was "Frenchmen shooting Frenchmen" and organized by Belgian , if it was like your media say - it should be either internal French problem or war between Belgia and France haha

my media call them muslims, Arabs, imigrants or second generation imigrants ,,

my media do not hide what immams say and which is like nazi superiority ideas , your media hide what immams say, what immams teach, instead of this your media inform that patriots with flags remembering victims of WW2 are nazis or antisemitic 

[dontknowhow 33]

on west there are 2 anti-Christian stereotypes: 

1) evil Christians organized crusades and started invading victim peacefull muslim world :

https://youtu.be/I_To-cV94Bo

truth is opposite

2) evil Christians "do the same, look at nazis and holocaust" - while nazis were.. neo-pagans and Himmler was opressing church and tried to set again paganic beliefs from ancient times

Actually neither. I prefer to look at the wars between Catholics and Protestants and the inquisition. Particularly the inquisition, because it came from an obsessive reading of the bible, a bit like some other people do with the quran now.

 

By the way: let's say that the Crusades were to take the land back from the Muslims. I want to quote what Wikipedia says:

 

 

The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

 

So you see, it was still Christians killing in the name of a stupid book

 

west should stop thinking like "we are guilty, they have the same rights"

it's not about guilt, it's about mistakes. We made ours, they are making theirs

Yes, they are people, like us.

 

and thats why even if they had elections - moderate loose elections

Maybe you haven't been following the elections very closely

 

haha, yea, they try... Taliban won in A-stan few years before 9/11 

So did Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar and the colonels in Greece. I am not sure they were really loved. And that's just to stay in Europe. Belarus still has Lukashenko, by the way

 

my media do not hide informations about no-go zones

that could be because those no-go zones don't actually exist. If I recall correctly tonci87 can give you more information about that.

[vilas 473]

yea and you ignore caliphate invasions in 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th century - 3 centuries before crusaders started muslims were trying to conquer Holy  Roman Empire (Bysantium) and France, Italy etc. 

you ignore 2/3 centuries of islamic invasions on Europe before first crusade happened, let me remind that some battles with muslim invaders were in France in year 830, in Italy in year 900s, 1010, in Spain etc. 

first crusade is 1095 afair 85 years AFTER for example battle of Piza (this Italian city with famouse curve tower) battles in southern France were 200 years BEFORE first crusade , 

muslims are trying to conquer Europe for 1300 years , and if they were not stopped in 1680 by Sobieski today you would have no freedom at all, moreover - all inventions - like industry, technology is by our civilisation, 

without money from oil - their civilisation would not make any step, just theocratic middleages till the end of time, 

just like African civilisation - when colonies ended, education ended, clan wars begun, 300% population growth (while we had 10% growth from 1970) important when it comes to hunger issue and poverty issue (giving birth instead of development), 

only our civilisation is progressing and not focusing on giving birth on and on and on , and we should defend this our civilisation, 

about nogo zones in Sweden there are more and more in YT and not only there, maybe 1 article of Fox was not true, but such zones are shown from time to time in different countries

if west will make its civilisation to fall - than only possibility to live not in theocracy will be to move to Russia (maybe), USA (but they won't let), South America , maybe China (too hard to learn language)

[dontknowhow 33]

yea and you ignore caliphate invasions in 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th century - 3 centuries before crusaders started muslims were trying to conquer Holy  Roman Empire (Bysantium) and France, Italy etc. 

you ignore 2/3 centuries of islamic invasions on Europe before first crusade happened, let me remind that some battles with muslim invaders were in France in year 830, in Italy in year 900s, 1010, in Spain etc. 

first crusade is 1095 afair 85 years AFTER for example battle of Piza (this Italian city with famouse curve tower) battles in southern France were 200 years BEFORE first crusade , 

muslims are trying to conquer Europe for 1300 years , and if they were not stopped in 1680 by Sobieski today you would have no freedom at all, moreover - all inventions - like industry, technology is by our civilisation, 

without money from oil - their civilisation would not make any step, just theocratic middleages till the end of time, 

just like African civilisation - when colonies ended, education ended, clan wars begun, 300% population growth (while we had 10% growth from 1970) important when it comes to hunger issue and poverty issue (giving birth instead of development), 

only our civilisation is progressing and not focusing on giving birth on and on and on , and we should defend this our civilisation, 

about nogo zones in Sweden there are more and more in YT and not only there, maybe 1 article of Fox was not true, but such zones are shown from time to time in different countries

if west will make its civilisation to fall - than only possibility to live not in theocracy will be to move to Russia (maybe), USA (but they won't let), South America , maybe China (too hard to learn language)

Maybe you should reread what I wrote. I'm not saying that we are dealing with angels, I'm saying that Christians used to do the same.

 

I didn't know those zones moved to Sweden from Germany. Are they like the ones tonci debunked already?

[vilas 473]

why don;t you use YT and google ;)

even Swedish police confirmed it

use google 

and use YT to also find interviews with German policemen (Tonci said one thing about one area, German policemen in some movies on YT said other things about other areas)

first step to find truth about world is to turn off mainstream and start google yourself for informations 

[dontknowhow 33]

why don;t you use YT and google ;)

even Swedish police confirmed it

You want to use google? Okay, let's use google. Here is what I found:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/european/comments/3opy3a/nogo_zones_in_sweden_recently2014_the_swedish/

 

This is interesting, because there is actually someone from Sweden explaining a few things. While he says it's not a joke, he also says:

 

 

it is however false that "they will no longer enforce the laws of the nation" within these areas.

 

Here is one more:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2014_November_30

 

Here you can find some more people actually going into the translation. Guess what they say?

 

I will skip the Germany part because I'm in the good mood

 

 

first step to find truth about world is to turn off mainstream and start google yourself for informations 

No, first step to find truth is to find a reliable source of information, instead of reading the first garbage site that happens to tell what you want to hear.

 

EDIT: second step is to find other reliable sources of information. Third step is to use your own head. Do you really think that the Swedes and the Germans would allow no go zones?

[vilas 473]

http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/10/sweden-journalist-stoned-while-trying-to-film-in-no-go-zone

http://10news.dk/?p=1615

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXCb1VUBDg

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2119/journalist-went-to-swedish-no-go-zone-to-interview-stone-throwers-was-stoned.html

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/02/swedish-police-release-extensive-report-detailing-control-of-55-no-go-zones-by-muslim-criminal-gangs/

such things will never be in mainstream 

the same like in mainstream press in my country you will never read about corruption among judges etc.

if you deny such zones existing, than what is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thXCb1VUBDg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOuNKymDnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XQD0BxxcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZzwJ_GbG5U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7tMk-QM3e4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjnV1pvirdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S68NP1tYUr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLECtFT4aU

the problem of how each media are reliable - is also connected with who owns given media vs what is business of such owner in given topic 

if for you only relible is mainstream -- than Belgians planned attack on France and Frenchmen carried attacks on other Frenchmen and women and kids have beards

every media is biased in some way - mainstream is very much biased when it comes to geopolitical business of owners/governments/groups/big business

small media can be biased too, but if i would believe mainstream in my country - than unemployment doesn't exist , few Poles emigrated because they love to travel and sight-see London, and only nazi racists were fighting against Stalin and foreign markets bringing here more profits to economy than anyone else ever could and of course i earn too much and labor laws do not exist anywhere, we live in golden age of prosperity and anyone who remembering WW2 and communism victims is nazi - such vision is presented by mainstream , 

when left wing punk (subculture) from Antifa attacked reenactors in historical uniforms - media not shown it

when few patriots kicked those attackers - media said about far right nazis attacking people , only independent media shown other version and i was there and seen myself how Antifa German punks came to spit and attack reenactors in historical uniforms on one independence day parade in my city, but mainstream media which belong to German corporations (and left wing ) only shown beating between right wing and police, but truth was other - far left attacked reenactors, right wing kicked their asses, than police get into action, when among 100 000 people few guys had White Power symbol on flag - TV filmed ONLY THEM, 

when punks were spitting at people (because they are marxists who believe that nations and national symbols should not exist) - cameras were off , 

when from Poland over milion people emigrated due to economy in 2008 our media were keep on telling that migration is only few thousands people who simply love to see other culture cause they have enough of catholic bigotry , 

when 2 milions of Poles emigrated due to ecnomy and nepotism here, than those media said "maybe even 400 000 Poles left abroad looking for job" and experts were saying "young people love to travel and see other cultures, see opportunity to sightsee world around our traditional and boring catholic society" and shown interview with one girl which said she is happy to move from family cause in her small town everyone is boring, 

they not interviewed 2.2 milion other people who left cause there is no industry etc. they not interviewed my friends who "hate to live there but they have to due to economy and they wish to come back when economy will be better" 

truth is opposite to what mainstream says in such cases, 

according to mainstream media Poles have 1000 Euro salary (average) , yeaaaa, they do not say it is artimetical - when you walk with dog you both have 3 legs

so i use my head before i will read anything from mainstream websites, now mainstream here informs that democracy ended cause conservatists won election ... and promote guy who is known for being from "World Bank" and who led few reforms which hit our pockets very hard

[dontknowhow 33]

And which one of those fancy videos actually  proves that the police don't go into those areas? Why don't you look at what the report says, if you are so convinced? I already showed you some people doing translations, and what the result is.

The fact that the police are attacked doesn't mean they are scared. There are neighborhoods with crime, they are dealing with it.

 

And to be clear: the Sun and the Bild are mainstream, in the sense they sell a lot of copies. They are not exactly my favorite.

I said reliable sources, not popular sources.

 

I can't believe we are still having this stupid discussion. As if your great press hasn't already proved enough to be garbage.

 

according to mainstream media Poles have 1000 Euro salary (average) , yeaaaa, they do not say it is artimetical - when you walk with dog you both have 3 legs

Sure, and according to your great press Poland is not growing and has huge inflation. I had to show you data from your own central bank to make you understand how it works.

 

And by the way, according to Eurostat (reported by Wikipedia) average net salary in Poland in 2014 is 634,49:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

 

now mainstream here informs that democracy ended cause conservatists won election

okay, that's stupid. If it's true, that is :rolleyes:

[vilas 473]

mainstream never show nett salary, always gross (before taxation, not after)

 

http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/273760-orban-alarmuje-pol-miliona-syryjczykow-byc-moze-zostanie-przesiedlonych-do-ue

Orban revealed that he knows about "secret agreement" (his words) that in upcoming time 400-500 k of migrants from Turkey will be sent to EU countries 

[dontknowhow 33]

mainstream never show nett salary, always gross (before taxation, not after)

really going off topic, but I had a look myself. Eurostat gives salary figures depending on the situation. Using the same assumptions as Wikipedia (single person with no children at 100% of the average wage respectively), I get an average gross of 843.63. But I saw that Eurostat does some statistical changes, which means probably it's not showing the real figure. So I looked at the OECD:

 

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=AV_AN_WAGE

 

OECD says 14162 dollars, so it more or less fits. My mistakes aside, if you prefer your fancy sites over the OECD you are a desperate case.

If that's not good for you then what you need is more taxes for people who make more money, and less evasion. I am afraid you voted for the wrong party.

 

If you have answers please go to the European politics thread

[vilas 473]

you misunderstood or twist ? 

i said that mainstream informs about BETTER things for their purpose too, 

so on example of salary they inform about average gross, not about mediana net 

and you say that i twist /deny data ? i informed what our mainstream said vs what is reality - i was not denying oecd data but showing how mainstream can lie (in our press they really wrote about 1000 eu and it was example of how mainstream big media corporations can lie, mainstream can even take gross and say it is net , 840 gros is true and i agree with this as average calculated also with top rich group included , but our mainstream never said it is 843, they said it is 1000 for example of informations from mainstream http://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/srednia-pensja-w-polsce-to-ponad-4-1-tys-zl,32,0,1803808.html just example 4100 PLN average, which gives nearly 1000 euro, LOL< information from mainstream, the same as your mainstream misinforms you about tax policy of this and previous gov. they inform you that current is bad, old was great, while old was great but only to foreign corporations and current tries to cut personal taxes for citizen , while previous was cutting for foreign banks and supermarkets )

i said different thing - mainstream would inform about gross - cause it look better - mainstream will not inform about net, just like inform about arithmetical average value - not about mediana of net of for example 80% of population 

such way of informations is also biased as non-mainstream small websites can be 

and when mainstream twists so obvious check informations (which anyone knows cause he has salary, or can check such eurostat or oecd) than how much they lie about "women and kids who escape from war" "no sharia violence spoted anywhere, just white christian racism"

when it comes to refugees media say: olderly people, mostly women and children - and we know 75-80% are fit young males , as we know that "Syrians escaping from war" are not Syrians ,

there is even YT clip from "TVN" mainstream leftist television

journalist shows group of young fit males getting out from boats and says "as we see, a lot of small children, old ill people, all of them escaping from war"

http://demotywatory.pl/4551061/Wpadka-TVN--podczas-gdy-reporter-opowiadal-o-imigrantach-widac-starszych-schorowanych-ludzi-widac-dzieci-kamerzysta-pokazal-cala-prawde

this is mainstream "we see lots of small children, old ill people, old women" and cameramen records  fit males,  fit males, fit males,  fit males

this is mainstream at its best just like "Belgians organized attack in Paris" 

[dontknowhow 33]

you misunderstood or twist ? 

 

I might have misunderstood. That might be because you like using words like "misinformation":

 

the same as your mainstream misinforms you about tax policy of this and previous gov.

 

Besides, I honestly don't see saying the gross average salary is 1000 as misinformation, if the gross average salary is actually 1000. Gross salary is a pretty normal value. I think it's because net salary is more difficult to calculate, because taxes depend on the situation, like Eurostat says.

 

i said different thing - mainstream would inform about gross - cause it look better - mainstream will not inform about net, just like inform about arithmetical average value - not about mediana of net of for example 80% of population

You are assuming people know what the median is. If you want to know more about inequality in an economy there is the GINI index, but you will find it maybe only in articles explicitly talking about inequality.

They want to give an idea about salaries, not do a statistical analysis

 

when it comes to refugees media say: olderly people, mostly women and children

that's in general not true. It only happens in specific situations.

 

as we know that "Syrians escaping from war" are not Syrians ,

oh yeah, the good old story. Sure, the real Syrians are in Syria, enjoying their war. Is that how you use  your head?

No, we don't know that. What we know is that about 30% are not Syrians

 

Talking about misinformation

 

there is even YT clip from "TVN" mainstream leftist television

I don't know this TVN, and I don't care if it's mainstream, I repeat for the fifth time. If it says bullshit don't listen to it

Or better said: if it says too much bullshit don't listen to it. No one is perfect, so you always have a bit of bullshit

[d_lukin 16]

Inside the Battle: Al Nusra-Al Qaeda in Syria

 

 

What a nightmare...

[vilas 473]

 

I don't know this TVN, and I don't care if it's mainstream, I repeat for the fifth time. If it says bullshit don't listen to it

Or better said: if it says too much bullshit don't listen to it. No one is perfect, so you always have a bit of bullshit

 

majority of people (consumers, voters) mostly are so busy that they DO NOT spend time on searching different info - only info they know is TV News at 7 PM when they sit to eat supper after day of work, shopping, washing, taking care about what kids do in school, 

most of older people do not use internet at all (do not have PC) and their only information is either radio or tv , 

we live in time when lots of people are very busy due to this they only know "truth" given by one or second channel in TV  , majority in generall prefer sitcoms, "lets look how they dance" shows ,  so true-factor of information in such society is priority 

[dontknowhow 33]

majority of people (consumers, voters) mostly are so busy that they DO NOT spend time on searching different info - only info they know is TV News at 7 PM when they sit to eat supper after day of work, shopping, washing, taking care about what kids do in school, 

most of older people do not use internet at all (do not have PC) and their only information is either radio or tv , 

we live in time when lots of people are very busy due to this they only know "truth" given by one or second channel in TV  , majority in generall prefer sitcoms, "lets look how they dance" shows ,  so true-factor of information in such society is priority 

okay, but I'm afraid that doesn't change much. If they want to listen to bullshit (assuming this TV News is bullshit) it's their problem. I would still try to find something with some more common sense. That doesn't include things like "the Polish economy is not growing"; and honestly that the Swedish police are scared of their own streets is not really believable.

[sudayev 27]

TOS-1 in Syria

 

[oxmox 73]

Syria Blames U.S. in Base Bombing, but Americans Blame Russia (NYT, Dec. 7)

Syria on Monday said a United States-led coalition had bombed a Syrian military base in the east of the country,

killing three soldiers, wounding at least 13 and destroying vehicles and equipment.

 

 

The United States denied the Syrian accusation and said a Russian warplane appeared to have been responsible.

 

The statement said that the bombing had been conducted Sunday evening in Deir al-Zour Province, and that Syria had sent

letters of protest to the United Nations calling the bombing “a heinous aggression by the coalition.â€

 

American military officials said the coalition had carried out airstrikes in the province on Sunday, but they said no Syrian military positions had been struck.

 

A statement from the United States-led Combined Joint Task Force said that the coalition had conducted four airstrikes on Sunday, “all against oil well heads,†about 35 miles from the base. “We did not strike any vehicles or personnel targets in this area,†the statement said. “We have no indication any Syrian soldiers were even near our strikes.

 

A senior United States official later attributed any deaths and any damage to the Syrian base to what he called “a screw-up†by the Russians, who joined the Syria war in September as allies of Mr. Assad and have conducted airstrikes with Backfire bombers and other aerial armaments.

“We’ve got a radar track showing a Backfire bomber flying directly over the town that the Syrians named a few minutes before the first claims that we killed some Syrian troops,†the American official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational details.

 

 

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an independent monitoring group that tracks the conflict from Britain through a network of contacts on the ground, also reported on Monday that American coalition airstrikes apparently had hit a Syrian military post on Sunday near Ayyash, in the western part of Deir al-Zour.

 

“Both President Putin and Russian officials at various levels repeatedly emphasized our belief that an effective counteraction against these dangerous developments is only possible on the platform of a united coalition and an absolute coordination of any joint efforts,†Mr. Peskov said in comments reported by Russia’s Interfax news agency.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/08/world/middleeast/syria-airstrikes.html?_r=0

[pulstar 55]

[RHDent 3]

A military solution will NOT work. We have to address the cause of the problem, not play whack-a-mole with terrorists.

[pulstar 55]

A military solution will NOT work. We have to address the cause of the problem, not play whack-a-mole with terrorists.

 

Try telling that to the arms dealers, they're swimming in a goldmine right now. Nobody talks about them, they're like the omnipresent evil behind the scenes.

[ProfTournesol 956]

 

In an update on Russian operations, Mr Putin said the military was now supporting Free Syrian Army (FSA) forces - which are fighting President Assad and have been bombed by Russia.

 

Source

 

What ?

[oxmox 73]

Kerry Calls for Common Ground With Russia on Syria, Ukraine (NYT, Dec 15)

The United States and Russia need to find "common ground" to end Syria's civil war and restore stability in eastern Ukraine,

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday.

 

Kerry praised Moscow for having been "a significant contributor to the progress that we have been able to make" on Syria

and said the U.S. and Russia both believe the Islamic State group must be eliminated.

 

"Russia and the United States agree that this is a threat to everybody, to every country," he said. "They are the worst of terrorists. They attack culture and history and all decency. It leaves no choice but for civilized nations to stand together, to fight and destroy them."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/12/15/world/europe/ap-eu-russia-us.html?_r=0