Syria - What should we do if anything?

[Tonci87 163]

Go back a bit more far in the timeline.

http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/m/museum-pol-army-5.jpg

Meanwhile the Rebels get training on Anti-Aircraft weapons. Yeah, follow the Afghanistan blueprint...

History is doomed to repeat itself.

[spooky lynx 73]

Someone got rid of another skyscraper?

[scrim 1]

Well, imagine one situation: there's a military base, for example, hosting mech infantry detachment, together with its heavy weapons, trucks and APCs. The crowd of so called civilians (including women, elders and even teenagers) gathers and starts assaulting facility, trying to get at its territory to seize all the weapons and other hardware and harm the personel. After base commanders tries to talk with the crowd and ask them to stop this the crowd does not respond and continues to storm the base shouting that all the soldiers and officers there will be stubbed to death or beaten severely (and they know that many soldiers, officers and their families were attecked already so it's not plain words). After commander orders his soldiers to step on the walls and open fire at will to prevent casualties among the personel and looting the weapons, APCs and ammo, what it will be? Massacre?

Yeah, because that totally sounds like something that would actually happen outside of a cheap C-movie.

Plainly disgusting defense of the Assad regime is all that is.

[spooky lynx 73]

Yeah, because that totally sounds like something that would actually happen outside of a cheap C-movie.

Plainly disgusting defense of the Assad regime is all that is.

That sounds like real things that happened often in Chechnya in 1992-1994. Many military, MIA and former KGB facilities were looted this way. With the assistance of women, elders and teenagers that were used as mix of strike force and live shield. They knew guards won't shoot them and used it to seize weapons, ammo, documents, maps and other stuff. The result is:

Note that males standing behind the women at second photo.

[hellfire257 3]

That AK has some very nice furniture.

[spooky lynx 73]

Look at grumpy Chechen grandma with RPK:)

[scrim 1]

That sounds like real things that happened often in Chechnya in 1992-1994. Many military, MIA and former KGB facilities were looted this way. With the assistance of women, elders and teenagers that were used as mix of strike force and live shield. They knew guards won't shoot them and used it to seize weapons, ammo, documents, maps and other stuff.

Yes, if we put aside the obvious differences, that is exactly what is happening in Syria today. It's actually a bunch of civilians who are provocing the poor military into killing them by aggresively living in their homes.

[MAVEN 1]

Northern Africa, Central Europe (Primarily Balkani region), Middle East, South America's, America (Most notably Mexico), Korean Peninsula, and far North are all playgrounds.

Why? Because this is 21st century. While WW2 might spring up fresh memories still, people are advanced more than ever before, connected more than ever before and most importantly nations are now mixed and there is far less division between races than there once was. So what big nations do with those who fall behind like the places (nations and people from those places mentioned) listed above is find them purpose. Let's say you are Syrian, your culture is behind the modern world, your community is in trouble, your politics are hostile, so what can the big modern world do with you when help is something you reject and something you can't accept the way it's meant to be? Use you, in this case for many benefits war brings such as - US gets to spend money, troops, develop new technology while US tests currently deployed one in hostile areas, Syrians get to live their false dream and fight for that "something" while nations like Russia who control many things remotely get to sell weaponry, earn money and improve things elsewhere.

Do you think that any conflict in those places is hard to resolve? WRONG. It's very easy. Biggest players just need to snap their fingers and say - Turn them to dust, and POOF, all those places are gone within a week because there is the technology and there are resources for this. But this wont happen with a very simple reason - Money, people need to earn it, as much others need to spend it. If you all of a sudden resolve all conflicts on this world what will you do with all that military stuff and all those PTSD'd soldiers? Things have to move on.

And if you think, that you can resolve everything with bullets and violence, you are in for a nasty surprise of being used, in which case I feel very sorry for you and your valueless existence (hey at least the war will make you useful, be a target on the range, help the world have fun!)

It's like a game of a snake and a rat, if you are the rat, you have two options, jump around before you get eaten eventually or just jump straight in the jaws and make it easier for yourself, and the worst scenario is if you get more rats around thinking they can defeat their predator, aka "Brotherhood" made between Syrians and Balkani's, LOL. This is funny because, well, take a look bellow:

(US) - US and Allies

(TARGET1): - Targets

(TARGET2) : - targets "Brothers"

(RU) : - Russia and Allies

You are a terrorist, because we say so, give up now! (US) (TARGET1) (RU) Hey, psst, don't listen to him, here, I sell you these weapons half the price (and 10 times worse quality than original) take, I help you!

I will rule the world! I have weapons, I have power! (Insert violent quote here) (TARGET1)

You ready bro? (US) (RU) You bet, let's have fun

Weapons armed (US) (TARGET1) (RU) Weapons armed

CONFLICT

(US) (TARGET1 dying) (RU)

Help me brothers! (TARGET1)

Let em do it, more targets to shoot (US) (RU) More money to make, we good!

What's going on (TARGET2) (TARGET1) Help us, we sell you all our propaganda and brotherhood stuff, now you must help us so we can rule the world!

OK, YES! (TARGET2) (RU) Hey, I have new tanks for sale, 3 times less than the original price, we bros, I sell em like this because we "bros" if you know what I'm saying.

Yes mother Russia helps us, we will rule the world (Insert islamist quote here) woops (TARGET2) (RU) (Damn, I knew it they are spoiled) Yeah sure!

Come attack us you cowards (TARGET1)(TARGET2) I got tanks I got tanks!

UAV assets ready, engaging targets WOOHOO, this is fun! (US) (TARGET1 dead) (TARGET2 dead) (RU) (CLICK) (BOOM) Remote controlled assets activated.

That was cool! (US) (RU) You bet, we try again!

(In front of press and public) You sell them weapons you communits! (US) (RU) You kill the innocent people you immigrants!

(After press and public meetings) LAWL, that was funny (US) (RU) Sure it was, we fooled them well. Now the next targets will think we fight one another, just as usual.

NEXT TARGET, repeat procedure.

THE END (And new start) Would illustrate with emoticons but there's a limit.

As for myself, I'm staying the "snake" and enjoying all the cool stuff this world brings like diverse cultures, people, nature, a decent job, travel and not a drop of conflict. The most powerful weapon is ones mind, the biggest weakness of any individual is fear. Decide which one you are going to use because you can't avoid. But my advice is aim for better tomorrow ;)

[scrim 1]

Sorry, that makes no sense what so ever. Russia's been selling weapons to the Syrians even back when they were part of Desert Shield, and considering the armed conflicts between Islamists and the Russian government, I sincerely doubt that many Islamist terrorist organisations actually go to the Russians for weapons.

[MAVEN 1]

Sorry, that makes no sense what so ever. Russia's been selling weapons to the Syrians even back when they were part of Desert Shield, and considering the armed conflicts between Islamists and the Russian government, I sincerely doubt that many Islamist terrorist organisations actually go to the Russians for weapons.

They buy from whomever they can. It's not just Russia. Many NATO weapons end up sold to 3rd parties as well. It was just an example as Russia is biggest weaponry manufacturer and supplier in the world, so naturally it's expected to see Russian-made weapons in all sorts of places.

It actually doesn't matter who supplies, every one of the big players does it in fact.

As long there's interest there will be sales. Some will earn money, others spend, and everyone will be happy in their own way.

[scrim 1]

Except Islamists get their weapons from small players like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, because they are at war with pretty much all the big players, like the Western world, Russia and to a small extent China.

Your supposed relationship between the US and Russia is also a fiction of your imagination.

[MAVEN 1]

Except Islamists get their weapons from small players like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, because they are at war with pretty much all the big players, like the Western world, Russia and to a small extent China.

Your supposed relationship between the US and Russia is also a fiction of your imagination.

And those small players get them from the bigger players, who eventually get them from the biggest players in the game. That's what it leads to anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

There's no relationship there as you may have understood it. I haven't given sufficient detail, because if I was to go for that, I would need to write a book in here and still miss on many things that are known just to their creators. I was referring to US as West and Russia as East, since most people interpret it that way, making it easier to understand. The relationship you mentioned is neutral between the biggest in the game. Sure you can see partiots attack each other from both sides, but those on top don't really care much, if it wasn't for this, there would be WW3 by now (and not a cyber/propaganda or whatever warfare, but shoot-to-kill war for survival) instead, there are interests, so while one side wants one thing, other wants other, and both sides may or may not come to an agreement but eventually things fall in their place. It's like playing a Russian roulette, each pull on the trigger will shoot one chance out (Read bullet, and refer as player), while eventually others will come to take the empty slot, the only difference between those "bullets" and those who aren't in the "barrel" is that the players who get fired out aim straight at those who are outsiders and try to spin the barrel or even pull the trigger.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Question is what is going to happen with Syria's Chemical and perhaps bio weapons?

Panetta warns Syria not to use chemical or biological weapons

Pentagon

December 14, 2012

By: Robert Tilford

Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta spoke today in Incirlik, Turkey. There he warned the Syria regime not to use chemical or biological weapons.

"What you're doing here - and I can't begin to tell you how important it is to this region and to the overall security of this area.This is a critical time. I don't have to tell you. You're 60 miles from Turkey - from Syria, and all of you know the turmoil that's going on in Syria. The fact that you're here in Turkey, a great ally - it's a country that has always provided this base, and it's always worked with us to try to deal with the challenges in this region." ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/panetta-warns-syria-not-to-use-chemical-or-biological-weapons

As always follow the link to the original article in full

Syria's Chemical arsenal is known to be considerable:

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/12/18/255749.html

The possibility that such weapons could now get into the hands of Al Qaeda, or be used to pretext a war with Israel are unsettling ones.

Worried walker

Edited December 18, 2012 by walker

[Amra 10]

The entire civilized world supports any action of Assad's government against FSA terrorists.

[scrim 1]

Troll?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Troll?

Indeed.

[scrim 1]

Speaking of the video (I think, didn't watch it) I think it is worth thinking about the future of different religious and ethnic minorities in Syria after the current regime has been overthrown. Currently the countries in the region that have experienced the Arab Spring have indicated that the new leaderships have left much to be desired for minorities in comparison to the safety provided by the former regimes.

[Amra 10]

Troll?

If you saw the video why do you ask?

[maturin 12]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/world/middleeast/syria-uses-cluster-bombs-to-attack-as-many-civilians-as-possible.html?hp&_r=0

Remember that argument I had with Spooky Lynx a few months ago? We all heard how it is useless to drop RBK-250s on urban areas, because they're ineffective against buildings and the itty bitty HEAT bomblets can't seriously harm anyone, and therefore all the reports of their use were false reporting by the West? So here we are, a cluster bomb strike on a town far from any frontline combat, killing over 20 civilians, and still there have been no serious moves towards intervention, nothing to act on all the supposedly false reports the foreign press has been making. Meanwhile, Russia has all but renounced its support for Assad, acknowledging the ultimate doom of their policy that has so directly aided in the taking of 40,000 lives.

So I just wanted to expose Spooky Lynx's consistent approach to these issues are a morally disgusting, dishonest, systematic justification of any state terror, so long as it is perpetrated by Russia and its allies and not the West or it its. So here it is. He's wrong, here's the proof, and man does it piss me off.

Edit: On a different note, Putin's speech emphasized the importance of preventing Syria from collapsing entirely and splintering into a Somalia-like state. This is a policy imperative that I wish Western governments would also express. Maybe if Russia hadn't cowardly and reprehensibly backed the wrong horse from the start, the international community could have worked together towards that goal. But Russian foreign policy from Georgia to Syria understands only vengeance, smugly mimicking the West's own international excesses rather than striving to set an example for opponents of interventionism.

Edited December 21, 2012 by maturin

[MAVEN 1]

Edit: On a different note, Putin's speech emphasized the importance of preventing Syria from collapsing entirely and splintering into a Somalia-like state. This is a policy imperative that I wish Western governments would also express. Maybe if Russia hadn't cowardly and reprehensibly backed the wrong horse from the start, the international community could have worked together towards that goal. But Russian foreign policy from Georgia to Syria understands only vengeance, smugly mimicking the West's own international excesses rather than striving to set an example for opponents of interventionism.

You got that wrong. The West does our dirty work with the anti-terrorism campaign, we just finish off what's left. I mean, if all those poor countries want revolution and West wants to fight, let it be. In fact both West and East have benefits out of this, take a look at my previous posts.

The whole Arab Spring is designed just like infiltration of US by jewish and muslim was ages ago. The same thing was with Vietnam war and it's equivalent Afghanistan invasion, etc..

If Russia wanted so, Russia could flatten this world within 24 hours, because there is technology and resources to achieve it, and Russia doesn't boast about it's power like West does for "fans". The reason why this didn't and perhaps never will happen is that despite millions of people who fall easily for propaganda and decide to live boring and ignorant lives there are few who understand, posses power and think about our future, and this is global, not just for the East.

To everyone else - Also, as I mentioned before, religions are sensitive topic, just drop it. Don't fall for provocative videos.

Here's one that may be interesting to some, I don't ask you to watch it, but you should specially if you are living in the US. It's a cartoon actually -

I would also encourage and call for admins to close both Syrian/Israel threads as they grow and fuel arguments.

Freedom of speech, but peace and common sense before all.

[scrim 1]

If you saw the video why do you ask?

Right-oh, seen it, now be gone troll.

Maven: Uh, considering the difficulty the Russian military found in defeating Georgia, I sincerely doubt it. The Russian bear is old and weakened much since the days of the USSR, and no, the West isn't really doing your dirty work. If we had, we'd been over in Chechnya dealing with the jihadists you've been fighting for decades, not supported those attempting to overthrow your last friends in the Middle East.

Edited December 21, 2012 by scrim

[MAVEN 1]

Right-oh, seen it, now be gone troll.

Maven: Uh, considering the difficulty the Russian military found in defeating Georgia, I sincerely doubt it. The Russian bear is old and weakened much since the days of the USSR, and no, the West isn't really doing your dirty work. If we had, we'd been over in Chechnya dealing with the jihadists you've been fighting for decades, not supported those attempting to overthrow your last friends in the Middle East.

LOL, you my friend don't know what is war about, it's far deeper than you may think. What happened between Russia and Georgia was just a tease, if Russia wanted that to be over in a flash it would've been. You see how would West and East test and spend all that new technology other than occational "conflicts" to give it a good reason for some orchestrated mini war out there, an example is jet fight between West and East that took place in 2011 (If I remember well) around Crimea, after it was over everyone went on with their daily business. Even in that conflict between Russia and Georgia, Russia sent old SU25's (To spend them) and rookie pilots (to make sure those SU25's were spent) so that newer models could take place, it's actually deeper even than that and I'm not going to try explain. One Su34 would resolve the issue on its own.

The bear is not weak and old, it's what propaganda is designed to make you think and it surely works on you, the bear is reborn and stronger than ever, you just don't see it because you are staring at it's feet and listening in wrong direction, in fact it may be bigger even than Soviet Union. About Chechnya, it's a playground, a place where Spetsnaz are trained, and while Spetsnaz train there US sells it's equipment to terrorists just like Russia does to ones in Mid East where Western forces are fighting, see the connection? Think about it. The West uses Mid East just like Russia uses Chechnya. And FYI, Russia and it's biggest allies don't have friends in Middle East, they have customers, that's why you won't see large scale support by Russia in Mid East to fight on their side. In fact, after Afghan invasion by Russia "only" 15k Russian soldiers died before forces are drawn out (not out of losses or end of war) because everything intended was over, and that was that some military equipment is used and some doors opened, you see, so many islamist organizations united together to fight that war and they couldn't win, millions of them have died, and even more civilians (killed mostly by their own people, go figure) paid the price of war, the main objective was completed - Unsettle the region, so that.....I bet you guessed it....Western forces can use an excuse and invade it, and that by itself is a part of a much bigger picture. Now compare Afghan invasion with Vietnam war (because that's what it is, an equivalent, a reply to) and take a look at casualties on Western side and you will see who plays games and who is the one played.

The same thing is with the Arab Spring, except that this time both sides are determined to reduce poor nations to a brink of their extinction. First the North African countries, then Balkani region, after that's done Mid East and finally US itself (I am sure than many people have no clue about this, but fyi, US alone has more muslim, jewish and even islamist/zionist/whatever "citizens" than whole Mid East combined, in fact there are more terrorist organizations in US than in some of Mid Eastern countries, the reason you don't see them is because they are young, but soon enough they will grow as US has more resources and funding than 3rd world countries do)

Anyway, no matter who is right or wrong or who wins, wars suck. There are always casualties and it's innocent people who pay the price, but then again, it's the same people who ignore reality and don't want to seek knowledge, understand and do something to protect themselves. Life will move on, wars will be fought, people will die yet new will be born, and that's cycle of life on Earth:j:

[scrim 1]

Oh my. Yeah sure, you didn't loose in Afghanistan, whatever. You really accomplished something there...

Yeah, I don't really believe you actually performed so badly against a tiny country on purpose.

Seriously, you guys lost the Cold War, and your loss wasn't pretty, it was humiliating. Trying to persuade people to join your fantasy world of how you never lose, of how your country can do whatever it wants, how Chechnya and Georgia aren't big problems, etc., is just pathetic.

[MAVEN 1]

Oh my. Yeah sure, you didn't loose in Afghanistan, whatever. You really accomplished something there...

Yeah, I don't really believe you actually performed so badly against a tiny country on purpose.

Seriously, you guys lost the Cold War, and your loss wasn't pretty, it was humiliating. Trying to persuade people to join your fantasy world of how you never lose, of how your country can do whatever it wants, how Chechnya and Georgia aren't big problems, etc., is just pathetic.

Nobody lost, neither East or West as none of the sides fought a real war (except bigger conflicts such as WWI and WWII). The only ones who lost were the ones attacked (3rd world countries). And there's nothing to accomplish of big significance in such conflicts. I never said how "I" never lose, notice that I actually didn't pick side, what I tried to do is to share what I know, now will you try to learn and use it to your advantage for good or not, that's your decision.

BTW, I see you are getting upset (pardon me if I am wrong about it) there's no need to be, I don't argue, I share what I know with good intentions :)

I personally don't hate anyone, or for that matter dislike to a point of starting a hate. The same can be said for my stance toward West and the rest of the world, in fact, I am really saddened about what's going on in there, US was once great and a place where people could craft and live their dreams.

[Amra 10]

Oh my. Yeah sure, you didn't loose in Afghanistan, whatever. You really accomplished something there...

Yeah, I don't really believe you actually performed so badly against a tiny country on purpose.

Seriously, you guys lost the Cold War, and your loss wasn't pretty, it was humiliating. Trying to persuade people to join your fantasy world of how you never lose, of how your country can do whatever it wants, how Chechnya and Georgia aren't big problems, etc., is just pathetic.

It's you, who live in a fantasy world. The Cold War is not over and the main proof of this is a politics of your countries. Noone can do everything but Russia can do everything that others can. Proof me wrong. And yes - Chechnya and Georgia aren't a problem at all now. I think more people die in USA today by hands of next crazy psycho who begin to shoot at people at school or in theatre than in Russia from Chechen terror acts. As for me being troll I'll tell you - you're a troll. So I fed you a little bit right.