Moderator and member relations

[WhoCares 0]

Looks like some modz have problems to handle their new powers

[Guest]

Yepp, it was just me being stupid to expect Ikonboards to do things automatically. There is a nice "Rebuild topic" button that is supposed to be used if you delete a post.

Sadico: Sorry, I accidentaly deleted your first post while trying to fix the reply count. But i quoted it and answered your question directly after deleting it, so no harm done

[Paratrooper 0]

My advice to you Denoir is to be more like how Highlander was, not going on forum rampages, locking everything.

[ralphwiggum 6]

so, the Swedish war hero has degraded himself to an upset moderator.....

i realy didn't give a damn about the fact that you were a moderator until you started changing my member title. I didn't ask for it to be changed, and precedent was that it's only changed when that person asks for the change.

Denoir has been around here long enough to see the dynamics, so I don't mind him being a mod. but running around like a chain-saw wielding masked maniac, pushing boundaries of what first generation mods have done is a bit disappointing.

If I remember correctly, placebo would do following things;

1.close useless threads

2.warn ppl not to start flame wars(moderation)

3.and punish ppl for going too far

denoir seems to be active in discussion that previous mods would prefer to stay away(for objectivity i guess). I have no problem with that, except that he did change my settings once in awhile in response. onetime, got my post count reduced by 100posts, my member title was changed to several stuffs(like OF monkey, phallus minimus). that could be seen as abuse of power.

placebo doesn't do that even if i constantly make reference about his choice for laying mines. he just takes it in stride. so denoir needs to learn that being a mod is like being US in international arena. damned if you do damned if you don't.

oh, and thanx for pinpointing the problem of search engine's problem denoir.

[Guest]

Ralph:

Your behaviour has indeed been different towards me since I became a mod. Yesterday you stepped over the line, and you know very well what I am refering to. What I did was that I changed your name and removed 100 from your post count for about two hours. This was a very mild thing to do because I know you enough that I knew that you were joking. Nevertheless you stepped over the line. If sombody else had done so to a member, I would be considering a temp-ban.

And I have a lot of precedent on that.

As for the first change, it was a joke that I was hoping you would get. I gave you the "OFP Monkey" name as a reference to our economics discussion. I also removed it directly when you objected.

[Paratrooper 0]

If you're going to be a mod act like one, be impartial, be discreet and mature. Then you'll be respected...

[Hilandor 1]

IMO being a succesfull moderator means gaining the respect of the forum members and giving respect back .

[Guest]

LOl! Any more obvious advice paratrooper?

Apparently my message hasn't gone through. I wasn't talking about any changes in the way we administer things. I was talking about being a member and a mod at the same time. Separate those two roles, but still the same person, if you get what I mean. My point was that people get intimidated by the fact that somebody is a mod and are afraid to say what they think on issues that are completely unconnected to any administration things.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ralph:

Your behaviour has indeed been different towards me since I became a mod. Yesterday you stepped over the line, and you know very well what I am refering to. What I did was that I changed your name and removed 100 from your post count for about two hours. This was a very mild thing to do because I know you enough that I knew that you were joking. Nevertheless you stepped over the line. If sombody else had done so to a member, I would be considering a temp-ban.

And I have a lot of precedent on that.

As for the first change, it was a joke that I was hoping you would get. I gave you the "OFP Monkey" name as a reference to our economics discussion. I also removed it directly when you objected.<span id='postcolor'>

that OF monkey was a joke, and I know that, but sometimes what could be funny to you is not funny to me and vice versa. For you, you could change mine, but I can't do same to yours. not a happy thought.

and speaking of that comment that I made in calling you something that we know what it is, I had to find a comeback line and that kinda struck my head. you used to say that, and the only person to do so. thus i thought calling you by that would be funny. now you see why i didn't like OF monkey reference either.

you called me a monkey (for being an economist) and I took it light hearted. but you constantly started mentioning that even after that discussion, and I thought you wanted this little give and take to go on. and what was the closest way to bring you onto the level of a monkey? that's right! whatever I said..!

i really don't see change in my behavior towards you..unless someone secretly wrote a script in my head like "this setBehaviour "COMBAT""...

or could it be that you are too self-conscious after becoming a mod?

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hilandor @ June 18 2002,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IMO being a succesfull moderator means gaining the respect of the forum members and giving respect back .<span id='postcolor'>

regardless of their driving skills in MP

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ June 18 2002,18:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i really don't see change in my behavior towards you..unless someone secretly wrote a script in my head like "this setBehaviour "COMBAT""... <span id='postcolor'>

It started after our economy discussion and has escalated ever since. Then you crossed the line and I showed that I didn't like it in a very, very, very mild way.

Except for that "OFP Monkey" thing, I havn't done anything else strange for a mod. I have moved a lot of misplaced topics. I have closed some duplicate threads + one or two pure spam threads. And processed new members.

This was however not the issue. I have not asked for any advice on how to moderate the forum.

What I wanted was a discussion of the how the duality member<->mod works. I have repeated this point a number of times in numerous threads since the beginning of these forums that I consider mods to be janitors, not kings. There is no reason why a mod could not combine his function as a member and as a moderator. That was the discussion I wanted to have.

Me "running around with a chain saw" is a distorted picture, that comes from the fact that I activly participate in the discussions. Very little of that has anything to do with me being a mod, and I am doing it in my fuction as a member of the community.

Mostly for paratrooper:

Do not however mistake this for weakness, because it isn't. The fact that I am discussing these things (which perhaps is unusual) does not mean that the forum rules and way of administering the forums are up for discussion. That is not up to you and that is not up to me either. Also try to remember that these rules and their enforcement are not there for the moderators or any individuals, they are there for the common good.

[Hilandor 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 17 2002,20:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do not however mistake this for weakness, because it isn't. The fact that I am discussing these things (which perhaps is unusual) does not mean that the forum rules and way of administering the forums are up for discussion. That is not up to you and that is not up to me either. Also try to remember that these rules and their enforcement are not there for the moderators or any individuals, they are there for the common good.<span id='postcolor'>

from what ive seen no one had a problem with mod member relations till somoene posted this thread, i just see paranoia on your part about no one being the same anymore that u are a mod. Off course people are going to be different now u have the power to ban and close topics therefore folks may tend to watch what there typing and ur picking this up

my tips

relax man relax

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

HAHAHahahaha

people get so worked up about little things

its a computer game internet forum.

get over it.

[Akira 0]

I agree with Hilandor.

You just need to unclench man. Yeah, like I said before, I thought you might gun for me...but that was disspelled by your next post and when you changed my thingie to "Patriotic Bonzai" and not "Jerkweed American" or something like that

So ya...just relax...be yourself. I know I will be. I'll still argue/debate with you if it warrants (joy for you ), with no real change in how I act.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It started after our economy discussion and has escalated ever since. Then you crossed the line and I showed that I didn't like it in a very, very, very mild way.

<snip>

I consider mods to be janitors, not kings. There is no reason why a mod could not combine his function as a member and as a moderator. That was the discussion I wanted to have.

Me "running around with a chain saw" is a distorted picture, that comes from the fact that I activly participate in the discussions. Very little of that has anything to do with me being a mod, and I am doing it in my fuction as a member of the community.<span id='postcolor'>

well, it takes 2 to escalate things. i didn't consider you refering me as a monkey on posts an escalation, until you used your member title change wand.

rest of the time, you are being what a mod should be. closing spam topics, moving thread to appropriate sections and so forth.

you might consider yourself as janitor, but from member's perspective you are more like an authority. you can move/transfer topics and close it. to me, that's authority, not janitorial services.

mods are ppl too and they have feelings and have opinions. what problem that causes is that mods can set the atmosphere for the forum. for example, closing less of anti-US threads then anti-anti-US seems to be a biased selection.

when ppl see your opinion(posts) and see that you have more authority then regular members, then you are sending message that you are the one who is more influential, whether you like it or not.

if you want to express your opinion, how about creating second account? you can use it to express your opinion and prevent ppl from percieving you as an authority figure.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ June 18 2002,19:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HAHAHahahaha  

people get so worked up about little things

   

its a computer game internet forum.

get over it.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, that was exactly my point. As I said in the first post.

This is nothing serious. The authority that mods have is nothing, nada, entirely virtual. So I can close topics? So what! You can open new ones

Hilandor - you were a very good mod. However you are a much more fun contributor now that you are a member.

All I am saying is that if people didn't percieve this "mod power" as more then it really is then the member<->mod difference wouldn't be noticable. Then you Hilandor could have for instance contributed during your time as a mod with much fun stuff for the forum as you do now.

As for changing of the member titles. I'll say it like this: if you are really so vain to get upset about it, then you deserve it. See it as our little reward for the administrations of the forum

Anyway, having said that, I'll also say that I won't change my style at all. I won't abuse my mod powers with closing stuff that I personally don't like and I sure as hell won't ban people as long as they don't break forum rules.

Oh, and if you wonder why I have been so much around lately is because I don't want to work at work. So I am in the forums all the time I'm at work. Today I celebrated my seventh day in a row of not doing any work related stuff

Ok, I'll let another round of comments and then I'll close the thread since it seems to upset people

[Warin 0]

Here's my two cents:

It's human nature to treat folks with authority a little different. Even if that authority is as ephemeral as modship in an internet forum.

I've always tried to treat everyone equally..and dont think I've changed my opinion of anyone based on whether they are a mod or not. Though, there is a lot more posting fom Hilandor now that he isnt a mod anymore, so it's easier to see he's a crazy scotsman now.

Maybe if we all followed the old biblical proverb 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap' things would be better.

[Sadico 1]

Personaly, i don't mind if you are a mod or not. I'll respect your opinions and voice mine as i did before.

[timmy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ June 17 2002,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

As long as I remain the knight in squeaky armor I`m happy  <span id='postcolor'>

as long as i remain Am I there?(whatever the hell that means) im happy

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am still that 'pinko-commie-liberal-bastard' denoir that I was a week ago <span id='postcolor'>

*sniff*

thats my boy

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, and if you wonder why I have been so much around lately is because I don't want to work at work. So I am in the forums all the time I'm at work. Today I celebrated my seventh day in a row of not doing any work related stuff <span id='postcolor'>

i'm guessing pretty much everyone is not working unless urgent. WC.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ June 18 2002,21:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, and if you wonder why I have been so much around lately is because I don't want to work at work. So I am in the forums all the time I'm at work. Today I celebrated my seventh day in a row of not doing any work related stuff <span id='postcolor'>

i'm guessing pretty much everyone is not working unless urgent. WC. <span id='postcolor'>

Hell....I'm a government worker...

When was the last time you saw one of us actually working??

[Guest]

Oh, I think I can beat you at that Akira

I'm sitting in a cubicle on my own and I don't want to work. The company firewall prevents me from using ICQ. The only thing that remains is the web and that means mostly the forums. That's why I've been the reincarnation of the energizer bunny the last week

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 18 2002,02:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This seems to be a hot topic right now, so why

don't we discuss it in a nice friendly manner?

Here are some of my thoughts:

I must say that in many ways it sucks being a moderator. The major part of this comes from the fact that people suddenly start to treat you differently. There are basically two versions of that, one is kissing ass and the other one is challanging you aggressively. The people that you like alienate you. The people who you like to argue with and debate with start to go soft on you, not wanting to get into a conflict. Every comment that you make is taken as a threat. This makes me very sad since all the fun I have had in this foum has come from open discussions with all you people.

I can't see why it has to be like that. Moderators are the janitors of the forum. We are the sanitation workers. And we work for the interests of our members. People don't get banned for expressing their views. Threads are not closed because of difference in opinions.

There is an unhealthy 'us' against 'them' mentality. We definetly don't need that kind of segregation. I am still that 'pinko-commie-liberal-bastard' denoir that I was a week ago The things I write here in the forums are still my own opinions. You are very welcome to bash them as much as you want! The only thing that is different is that I occasionally move some posts that are in the wrong forum or close spam- or offensive threads.<span id='postcolor'>

Dont mistake the tone here. I'm trying to discuss this no different than you. Heres my two cents on this subject:

Denoir, you are a newer mod and you definitely seem to have a very idealistic view on being a mod. I have to say that it looks to me like you've been beeing a little trigger happy with closing threads lately; pretty much all closed threads i see lately have your name at the end of them.

In my experience, R. Gerschwarzenge has at least been reasonable, and i dont really have experience with AndOne, DnA, KingBeast, Sith, or Snake1999, but i remember placebo and hilandor acting like we (the members) were his children or something. And threads were closed ALL the time out of difference of opinion. Or is there a definition somewhere that describes just what a 'lame' thread is? I don’t suppose it ever occurred to a mod that it might not be lame to us...

This is why people challenge you aggressively. I know for a fact that there are members here that will agree with me when i say that being a mod here has developed a legacy of condescension. People think that what they are discussing is valid matter and then along comes you or any other mod and closes it down or deletes it. And who cares if it might have offended someone. If you live life with the intent of never offending anyone, i might imagine you never leave your house. I’ve had people come up to me off the street and want to fight me for no reason. Just because something about me got to them; offended them if you will. Are you going to sit there as a mod and tell me that that incident was MY fault?

And you’re absolutely right. We don’t need the kind of segregation you speak of. But realize that it wont stop. At least not now. For every mod that closes a thread or re-sets someone’s post count, there will be at least ten members that believe those actions are un just and WILL harbor some resentment towards the mod that did it. Ten leads to one hundred, one hundred leads to two hundred and so on. There is no equal respect between authority figures and the people they have authority over. I'm just stating facts here. YOU have the ability to re-set someone’s post count. YOU have the ability to ban someone for whatever reason you people decided upon that they should be. YOU have the ability to close a thread for whatever reason you do. YOU have the ability to give me the member title i want in a LANGUAGE I CANT READ!!! (Slight humor here). I don’t. Nor does any other forum member. (I use "you" as a generalization here)You come up with these stupid rules like no posting images over a 100k, and then take harsh action when someone makes a mistake. Maybe some people didn’t see you post that rule? maybe some people forget to look at the size? Iv seen pictures that were over 500k load faster than some 50k images. Size doesn’t matter. It’s the bandwidth of the host that slows things down.

You must keep in mind that as long as you are a mod, people will think the things they do about you. Unless mods respect members a little more. I know this. I wouldn’t be disrespectful of a mod without reason to do so. Without first being snubbed by one. I dont know if this applies to anyone else here, but I try to be as honorable as i can about these things.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ June 18 2002,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

First I have to say that I agree with most of the things that you say Aculaud . However, some comments

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, you are a newer mod and you definitely seem to have a very idealistic view on being a mod. <span id='postcolor'>

Yepp. But I am consistent. I have always disrespected the mods just as I have other members My last comments in threads before becoming a mod I joked a lot about a Placebo/Hilandor/Gimbal love triangle. And yes, there was a sheep involved Since placebo made me a mod directly after that, I must assume that it had something to do with it (and the fact that I was very good in bed) My point is that the mods don't want this segregation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have to say that it looks to me like you've been beeing a little trigger happy with closing threads lately; pretty much all closed threads i see lately have your name at the end of them.<span id='postcolor'>

I wash my hands from the closure of the "Cookie Monster Thread" Anyway, if you review my closures you will see that they are pretty regular. Like double topics and stuff like that. It's just that I've been a lot in the forums lately so I get jinx on closing threads

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And threads were closed ALL the time out of difference of opinion. Or is there a definition somewhere that describes just what a 'lame' thread is? I don’t suppose it ever occurred to a mod that it might not be lame to us...<span id='postcolor'>

Well, it is easy to spot nonsense threads. For instance that cookie-monster thread was an obvious target. Sure it was funny, but it was pretty meaningless. You have to consider also that the mods are all pretty self-going so it ends up being the judgement of the mod that decides. All the mods want what is best for the forum, but as individuals we can have slightly different views on things. Placebo's actions are of course a good point of reference, since he has been around very long and has a good experience of what works and what does not. Anyway, it could be much worse. If we were playing  by the rules, the "A little therapy" thread would have been long gone.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">YOU have the ability to give me the member title i want in a LANGUAGE I CANT READ!!! (Slight humor here). <span id='postcolor'>

Ok, you have yourself to blame there really Since the member titles are in no way importrant to your freedom of speech or the forums function and so on, they are free to change. Didn't you learn from the previous round? And then you go requesting a title in *ENGLISH* lol What did you expect?

Can I bribe you with changing your name to "Giant Flaming Jackass", or will that just proove your point

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You come up with these stupid rules like no posting images over a 100k, and then take harsh action when someone makes a mistake. <span id='postcolor'>

Not our rule. BIS rule. They have been very strict about it. Their board. Their rules. We have to accept that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe some people didn’t see you post that rule? maybe some people forget to look at the size? Iv seen pictures that <span id='postcolor'>

I added a line on my first day of modship under Hilandors "Images result in ban"-topic that states the rule.

Ok, that's it