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Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

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Wrong. For a lot of us around here, Arma is for the gaming industry what Lego is for toys. Surely you can play with the made things, but i always found it better to build your own, and create your own scenario...

NoRailgunner was talking about newcomers. It could possibly be much more people than current community... (with dedicated PvP forum section ;))

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I´m all for a well designed, tight PVP shipped with the game by default. People will want to jump into MP. They shouldn´t wait a month or two for the community to fill the gaps. Plus, a -large- part of the initial buyers will not know about the community sites, and if the default game doesn´t have the content to make them stick around, chances are they´ll never discover them.

There are many people who also aren´t as literate of the internet as many of us, so even if sticking with the game, they may not look in the right places to find the sites. My suggestion would be to add a community news platform to the game. Which BI already tried, by the way: the community didn´t pick up on it and the thing apparently died -> http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?91918-New-community-venture-announced-discussion

Then I already put the argument forward that for the noobs who are simply not aware of -any- website the community hosts, many of whom can´t even be expected to visit the forums or the main website, need to be informed that there is much, MUCH more out there than what they bought in the store.

Arma will fall over and wither in long or short order if the community doesn´t receive a boost of constructive, creative and productive modders/mission designers and general community members. Right now, many people here (like me) are leftovers from the original OFP. Among us are also a lot of modders. A lot of the documentation, etc, (for example the Editing Bible) are legacy works from OFP times.

And to draw new people, Arma 3 needs to have what people want to play: among those things are fun, dive in and enjoy multiplayer modes. And a multiplayer interface that doesn´t need a 600 page manual to figure out (I am exagerrating, but I am sure improvements can be made.)

My take on this, so far.

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Lets say BIS will include 1-2 pvp missions just for the CoD/BF crowd - how long will it take before we will hear from this crowd that they got bored and that the game sucks? How many of them incl. OP do/will make their own missions or can be bothered to do something instead of moaning, crying and trying to show that its an "win-win for everyone" if BIS will do all the pvp missions/maps?? Would it be bad if BIS mission designers create something new and challenging using more than ~200x200m 'shoebox'/'kill' arenas?

Who knows but I think trying is better than not. Who knows, it could benefit this game in more ways any of us could even imagine?

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

I´m all for a well designed, tight PVP shipped with the game by default. People will want to jump into MP. They shouldn´t wait a month or two for the community to fill the gaps. Plus, a -large- part of the initial buyers will not know about the community sites, and if the default game doesn´t have the content to make them stick around, chances are they´ll never discover them.

There are many people who also aren´t as literate of the internet as many of us, so even if sticking with the game, they may not look in the right places to find the sites. My suggestion would be to add a community news platform to the game. Which BI already tried, by the way: the community didn´t pick up on it and the thing apparently died -> http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?91918-New-community-venture-announced-discussion

Then I already put the argument forward that for the noobs who are simply not aware of -any- website the community hosts, many of whom can´t even be expected to visit the forums or the main website, need to be informed that there is much, MUCH more out there than what they bought in the store.

Arma will fall over and wither in long or short order if the community doesn´t receive a boost of constructive, creative and productive modders/mission designers and general community members. Right now, many people here (like me) are leftovers from the original OFP. Among us are also a lot of modders. A lot of the documentation, etc, (for example the Editing Bible) are legacy works from OFP times.

And to draw new people, Arma 3 needs to have what people want to play: among those things are fun, dive in and enjoy multiplayer modes. And a multiplayer interface that doesn´t need a 600 page manual to figure out (I am exagerrating, but I am sure improvements can be made.)

My take on this, so far.

Well said.

I don't want a copy of BF3 or COD. I want BIS to develop their version of PvP multiplayer with an ARMA only twist!

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PvP was much more popular in Op Flashpoint, and very rarely do I remember seeing many Coop missions going... which is strange, I'm not exactly sure what happened, but it's the opposite now which was really unexpected for me and I'm sure for BIS as well.

I think if you want PvP to be popular again, hope for a cool ladder league?

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PvP was much more popular in Op Flashpoint, and very rarely do I remember seeing many Coop missions going... which is strange, I'm not exactly sure what happened, but it's the opposite now which was really unexpected for me and I'm sure for BIS as well.

JIP happened?

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A lot get locked or deleted but here you go-

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1476944-would-bf-vets-happy-if-bf3-were-more-arma.html

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1476910-imagin-if-we-could-have-maps-bf3.html

Lots of comments spread thoughout the Bf3 forum basically saying "can't wait for ARMA3", many people have lost hope that BF3 will be "fixed" and many people realize Battlefield as it once was is gone, thanks to Dice's new target audience.

Originally Posted by stardouser19

It would be nice Bohemia could make a Battlefield Middle Ground mode. I tried to go on their website suggesting TO BOHEMIA to do that kind of thing but their forum moderator, who I don't even know if he is a paid employee, kept locking the thread saying that a request to Bohemia made no sense, and suggested that I make a thread asking for a mod scenario to be made. But I wasn't talking about that, and he couldn't comprehend the need for a request to Bohemia, so I just gave up.

It seems a strange question , but are those folks aware of where the PR mod went? I thought the PR team did a good job of bringing tight tvt scenarios to ArmA2

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For a lot of us around here, Arma is for the gaming industry what Lego is for toys. Surely you can play with the made things, but i always found it better to build your own, and create your own scenario...

I couldn't agree with you more.

a -large- part of the initial buyers will not know about the community sites

What's up with the weird fascination some people have with wanting to cater to people that haven't even played Arma before? Anyone interested in realistic gameplay has already discovered Arma, and if they haven't then they must be fucking retarded anyway.

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You're right. Arma 3 should be restricted to people who already know about it. BIS shouldn't try to expand their audience and broaden the community. This can lead only to bad things.

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I couldn't agree with you more.

What's up with the weird fascination some people have with wanting to cater to people that haven't even played Arma before? Anyone interested in realistic gameplay has already discovered Arma, and if they haven't then they must be fucking retarded anyway.

That is a really bad attitude to have towards potential buyers. If you don't cater to people who haven't played before, the only possibilities are that you will lose customers or keep the same amount.

Is it not good to expand the customer base?

Also, many of my friends want a realistic military simulator and have not heard of the ArmA series. You might not know, but this game isn't as well known as say, Doom and Tetris. You can't expect all of your potential customers to know of your product.

Edited by djfluffwug

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What's up with the weird fascination some people have with wanting to cater to people that haven't even played Arma before?

More customers -> More money for BI -> Devs getting what they deserve & more funding for future Arma projects.

Anyone interested in realistic gameplay has already discovered Arma, and if they haven't then they must be fucking retarded anyway.

That's pretty elitist/arrogant. I'm sure there are some realistic games out there that you haven't yet heard of either, but that doesn't make you "retarded".

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its not the point to go "like" other games.

you have to develop your own way!

the arma makers did this already, they gave the mission makers/Modder the power to create

the community can mod everything that is wanted (BF2 done - RTS nearbydone)

the problem was in arma 2 not the possibility.. this problem was another because that the commun ity was forced to coop

and YES its good to have some gamemodes/maps from the maker to bridge the time til the modders done a well job

and to have a good netcode&game to have a good gaming experience

and on my opinion is a bigger community good -- but not at all cost

you dont get a good community if you get the badge "has copied BF/MW"

i didnt see games that make a good game because they copied anothergame mostly they hit the dirt and didnt go airborne

milsim is its own genre you dont need "death bonus" or "kill bonus" or a rangecap for the sniper

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I'm sure there are some realistic games out there that you haven't yet heard of either

Realistic military simulation is very much a niche market, OFP was released in 2001, there isn't a single military simulation enthusiast on the planet that hasn't played Arma.

Point is Bohemia Interactive don't need to pander to those seeking COD/BF3 style gameplay.

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There are default missions and community made mp missions in A2OA - guess how long does it took for people to make their own missions because they got bored or didn't like default missions? Of course the Armaverse is less focused around fast paced kill-respawn-instant-action incl. Hollywood SFX. Imo it could be more important for BIS to make some userfriendly A3 mission tools/templates so more people are motivated to make something instead of moaning about how "evil BIS devs are towards certain crowd/scene/whatever". Of course first of all people have to get familiar with a game that is not just another fast-paced shooter, that A3 can be different to all what they have been playing before.....

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Realistic military simulation is very much a niche market, OFP was released in 2001, there isn't a single military simulation enthusiast on the planet that hasn't played Arma.

I discovered Arma 2 in 2010 by accident. If I hadn't installed Steam, I might have still not known about it. Broad generalizations like that are rarely accurate.

Point is Bohemia Interactive don't need to pander to those seeking COD/BF3 style gameplay.

Arma's unique gameplay, which is far different from COD/BF3, is its heart and soul, and as far as I know the developers don't plan to abandon that; They are just making it easier to learn how to play. I would have appreciated that back when I first started playing too.

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I discovered Arma 2 in 2010 by accident.

After reading your post history I suspected that your relatively new to the milsim genre. Hardcore military simulation enthusiasts don't accidently stumple upon milsims, they search for them.

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After reading your post history I suspected that your relatively new to the milsim genre. Hardcore military simulation enthusiasts don't accidently stumple upon milsims, they search for them.

FPDR I'm just going to hope you're just trolling and ignore you...

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ArmA is a sandbox. It's what we make of it. If we want we can run around with LMG's and spray n' pray, organize demolitions derby's with tanks, participate in UAZ race's, take long walks with no intent of shooting anything, hunt animals, organize complex assaults/ambushes/what ever form of attack we fancy,fly helo's, drive boats, etc

It might be marketed as a mil sim, due to it's rather large amount of military hardware, but at it's core it's a sandbox... No one here is more special than anyone... playing ArmA does not make you a "mil sim'er".

Edited by Maio

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and on my opinion is a bigger community good -- but not at all cost

Tell us what will cost BIS os us please. It was said many times in this thread that PvP scene should be just addition to ARMA.

you dont get a good community if you get the badge "has copied BF/MW"

i didnt see games that make a good game because they copied anothergame mostly they hit the dirt and didnt go airborne

I suggest you read this thread from beginning and then point us to sinner who wanted ARMA to copy BF/MW (don't worry, we'll send ninjas ASAP).

milsim is its own genre you dont need "death bonus" or "kill bonus" or a rangecap for the sniper

Is PR mislim? Is Domination with insta parachute jumps and respawns milsim? Is 3rd person view milsim? Where's the boundary? As was said many times we still want pure ARMA without crippling realism.

If I press 'I' in A2 Domination I see that vehicle kills give you more score points. Kill bonuses are already there ;-).

I agree that in CoD and BF3 took it to the extreme with too much fireworks and rock music. But just playing

M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL KILL KILL

with message in chat cannot hurt =). Remember; it's PvP game. It's for fun. You can continue playing your boring COOPs and ignore it. (I expect ninjas now).

Getting credit for kills which could then be spent on equipment is a good way to reward players & balance game in some PvP modes.

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Getting credit for kills which could then be spent on equipment is a good way to reward players & balance game in some PvP modes.

The developers are acutely aware that realism is what sets Arma apart from the mainstream arcade shooters, not balance.

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@NoRailgunner: Creative community is great. But I dare to say that 97% of potential buyers want to have fun first. Currently there is no CQB or small PvP we're talking about in this thread. As you said, community isn't much interested. You can't expect people will buy your game to create environment for having fun first even if A3 will have next-gen uber editor. Of course, later when they're bored they could become mission makers but that's not important (since it requires they'll get game for fun first). I'm not saying anything about BIS, I'm just trying to disprove some illogical arguments. By this move there is nothing lose. It's win for everyone. What exactly is your problem? You can ignore it and continue being serious elite milsim player.

Edited by batto

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The developers are acutely aware that realism is what sets Arma apart from the mainstream arcade shooters, not balance.

If a pvp mission is made without any thought spent on balancing, then it's just a shitty pvp mission.

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The developers are acutely aware that realism is what sets Arma apart from the mainstream arcade shooters, not balance.

Dude, your ignorance is really pissing me off. You're just an ordinary PC player like CoD players sitting behind PC and having fun killing people while thinking that you do realism. Stop with this crap please. If you want full realism go to army and shoot real people. Respawns, saving & loading and a lot of other things in A2 isn't realism.

In Counter-Strike everybody starts with a pistols and buy equipment for credit. That's what I meant. All ARMA realism is kept.

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If a pvp mission is made without any thought spent on balancing, then it's just a shitty pvp mission.

If you need to resort to employing credit and rewards to balance gameplay, then it's shitty mission design.

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@batto are you just afraid that A3 will have more challenging default pvp missions then one can play in BF/CoD? Imagine BIS devs will make some brand new/unique missions that do make use of A3 features, the terrain and don't limit players. Just something that will make people say "A3 is different but it's awesome!" Funny one could also claim "More people" = more idiots who run'n'gun, TK, cheat, satchel base/own stuff, instant action/achievements... overall more annoyance and troubles of getting a match done on public servers. Guess why so many prefer to play on locked servers?

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