Gazzareth 1 Posted April 19, 2012 I am one of the many here who played the original classic game to death, although not without it's faults the Strategy the enemy carrier used in the original is much more effective and frankly fun to fight against than in CCGM. To compare the two is like comparing "Attention Deficit Disorder" (ADD) to "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" (OCD), the original being OCD of course. To explain: In the original the enemy carrier starts with a plan, not that it goes the same route every time - but it has a coherent strategy and sticks to it. What it does is this: It adds islands to it's empire that will help it's cause - sometimes it "jumps" across the map but it will only "decide" to attack an island that is connected to it's chain (and therefore useful) to expand and, in theory push you back. Because it sometimes jumps across the map, you cannot necessarily predict where it will attack - unless you have it in a choke point. It will only attack you directly if it comes within a "detection range" of you - I am not sure what exactly what the range is, but it is much bigger than your radar range - as a rough guess I would suspect it is just over a 3rd of the average distance between the islands (the original has a fixed map). Other than that the enemy carrier is always either travelling to an island to attack OR (if it failed) going back to it's stockpile to resupply. The "Island Being Attacked", "Attack Repulsed" and "Island Lost" notifications help you plan your strategy. Where the "OCD" comes into it is, at least in the DOS version, is when the enemy carrier "decides" to attack an island then that it is - even if you isolate it in the chain so it no longer makes strategic sense, the enemy will still attack it AND keep attacking it until it wins. So if it was having trouble taking a defence island then you could roll up the islands behind it, making it travel further and further to the stockpile after every failed attack OR after a failed attack, turn up at that island in the sure knowledge that the enemy carrier would be back, and you would have the backup of the island's defence force. But it still felt that there was some "intelligence" there. In every game I have played in the BETA so far it is rather different, firstly the AI ignores the "free" island (or islands) completely - I have not seen it try and take them even if they are right next to their "empire", then it will choose an island to attack seemingly at random. Even if it only has one factory/resource island it will not necessarily try and add a second island to the chain so it can manufacture - it just chooses an island (which could be anywhere) and off it goes. To compound the "bad decision-making" though, when you attack one if the enemy islands the enemy carrier abandons it's attack and comes chasing after you, again no matter how far away you are. Which prevents the AI from making in-roads into your empire or being able to build one of it's own. So ADD - it makes "bad" decisions and then doesn't stick to them anyway. Which makes it rather annoying as, not only does it seem like there is no "intelligence" behind the enemy actions, but it also causes an early carrier vs carrier battle which vastly shortens the game (especially as the game currently finishes when you kill the enemy carrier). I am hoping that this is something that is just in for the BETA so that the enemy makes better decisions in the full version, or if not something that is going to be changed. I would be interested in hearing what other people think of the Carrier AI or if they have different experiences of it.. .. G Add: For those that have not experienced the original it is well worth a look and can be downloaded (legally) here: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/1027/Carrier+Command.html you would also need DOSBox to run it, which can be downloaded here: http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1 I would recommend the DOSShell front end to run it with which is available from the same page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainHaplo 1 Posted April 19, 2012 Agreed - there needs to be some tactical sense in how the Carrier decides its target. It should only "jump chain" if it can isolate an island (or the player) by doing so. Its what we humans would do - not just attack randomly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gadgetmind 10 Posted April 19, 2012 The enemy carrier tactics were rather different between 68k and x86 versions of the original, with the latter being far more advanced. I'm sure that BIS can (given time and tweaks) deliver AI for the enemy carrier that's far in advance of the original, particularly for "carrier to carrier" battles. Whether the original source will help or hinder I'm not too sure, but it is now to hand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harbinger 1 Posted April 19, 2012 Maybe it is locating islands with highest production / resource capacity in preparation for a linking capture, and weighing which of your islands would disrupt you most. Neutral islands pose no threat so maybe the AI leaves those til last. Like in chess, always think a few moves ahead :) ---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ---------- The enemy carrier tactics were rather different between 68k and x86 versions vof the original, with the latter being far more advanced.I'm sure that BIS can (given time and tweaks) deliver AI for the enemy carrier that's far in advance of the original, particularly for "carrier to carrier" battles. Whether the original source will help or hinder I'm not too sure, but it is now to hand. I would absolutely love to see the source for the x86 version of the original! I won't understand any of it, I know nothing about assembler, or any programming language, but it would be fun to try and work it out :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gazzareth 1 Posted April 19, 2012 Maybe it is locating islands with highest production / resource capacity in preparation for a linking capture, and weighing which of your islands would disrupt you most.Neutral islands pose no threat so maybe the AI leaves those til last. Like in chess, always think a few moves ahead :) ---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ---------- I would absolutely love to see the source for the x86 version of the original! I won't understand any of it, I know nothing about assembler, or any programming language, but it would be fun to try and work it out :) It could be, I am not sure with the original if there was any correlation between island size & volcanicity (is that a word?) and production values - but then again by the time you got to the volcanic islands production was no longer a worry. Either way it seems there were less "statistics" to worry about. Back to CCGM - Whilst there may be a reason behind jumping the chain, it doesn't make sense to try and take any island out of sequence unless you have a manufacturing capability - unless you don't need one, as taking islands is equipment intensive. Also taking a island behind enemy lines will only produce a relatively weak island which would be easier to retake. With the extra information about the islands, the extra advantages of linking them and the new supply system there should be some new tactics to use / fight against. However, that does not mean the ones used in the original should be forgotten. Quite agree with the source code, completely pointless for me to - well unless it is written in basic !!!!!! G Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gadgetmind 10 Posted April 19, 2012 I would absolutely love to see the source for the x86 version of the original! I won't understand any of it, I know nothing about assembler, or any programming language, but it would be fun to try and work it out :) Well, coming back to this code after nearly 25 years, I'm having to try and work it out! YOYOY didn't we add just a few more comments ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gazzareth 1 Posted April 19, 2012 Well, coming back to this code after nearly 25 years, I'm having to try and work it out! YOYOY didn't we add just a few more comments ... Lol, I am sure you knew every bit at the time. Did you think that you would be coming back to it after this long? G Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gadgetmind 10 Posted April 19, 2012 Lol, I am sure you knew every bit at the time. Did you think that you would be coming back to it after this long? Hey, I was 25, I never even expected to live this long! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anticept 10 Posted April 20, 2012 Hey, I was 25, I never even expected to live this long! Well you have 25 years to make up for then, get to it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
