How to improve the Close Quarter Combat experience in Arma 3?

[metalcraze 290]

Too bad it's humans and not AI

[DeclaredEvol 10]

Courtesy of Smookie's anims. :)

Did he update the animation pack??? I noticed something different in the transitioning...

[rye1 21]

Pictures show little, though they look good. I'd like to see video of it, how your character handles doorways, etc.

[metalcraze 290]

There's still no auto-lowering I think so either it's still the old way (which is still better than ->) or your huge machinegun will clip through walls and you will be able to sweep buildings with it.

Hopefully Dslyecxi answers that question on 4th

[LackLustreSurvivor 10]

I've had some sort of CQB with ai in ArmA 2. but only achieved with one or two ai mods. I think it's slx and zeus ai. The moment they see you in a window they will fire and continue suppressing. and sometimes get into the building and try to take you out. I'm sure ArmA 3 has some sort of CQB after all pretty much every building is enterable now. Also I do remember one of the Dev's stating that the AI have faster reactions and don't calculate every single object on the map to decide where to move or where to throw a grenade. And the weapon collision in ArmA 3 is better as far as I've seen in the videos. Not 100% sure though. Vaulting over low walls and through windows would be fantastic. As long as it's not in slow motion. Climbing over high walls and seamless ladder climbing would be great too... I despise ladders so much because of the fact it takes forever to get onto a ladder and off. it's the same for vehicles as well. Just stating my opinion.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Dagon19

[Kuskov 1]

Years ago I used to play co-op with a guy that was masterful at scripting the AI to perform well in CQB. Here are some of his old videos.

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[hannibal636 11]

americas army 2 sure, americas army 3 was too arcadey and poorly done by the new team.

I'm an avid lover of cqb/urban combat, still waiting on arma to deliver the goods. The movement as has been posted is supposedly fluid/will be soon so hopefully they'll in the next decade put more emphasis on cities/allowing us to do cqb. Fighting at 400m isn't very fun when your targets the size of a marble compared to fighting for control over a door/hall.

i hope arma3 will have smoother infantry movement... It kills me to play arma2 with its clunkyness... I know there are players who like that because it facilitates realism, but there are plenty of others who dont... Or at least make clunkyness an option like headbob..

More options, and smoother gameplay will bring in more cutomers, means more $$$ for bohiemia :)

(make arma3 oculus ready)

[smokey86045 10]

did you guys ever play the later socom games for ps/2. There were very many useful commands that arma could use and very well incorporate, it would also be nice just to see your squad follow you into a building, maybe even check door ways/corners with a simple side strafe as they walk past them. seem like older/lower detailed games focused on game play more than anything. why cant we have the best of both worlds??

Edited January 10, 2014 by smokey86045
post deleted with first to fight video

[Dawks 10]

... But yeah, you're right. I mean, it shouldn't be like an FPS shooter, but when you clear a room, it should be just as seamless as in real life.

I just found this thread, so haven't read, but wanted to drop this into it ... goat meat in the stew:

Watched JTCOIC's "Organization of a Basic Patrol and Establishing a Patrol Base" (

) this afternoon ... the sorta thing that calms me down; evidence of sentient life on planet earth. Doctrine.

But yesterday evening I spent in Sniper: "Ghost Warrior" ... stealth.

Today I was thinking about what I see as absence of real stealth in A3. I recall 2V2 and 4V4 in America's Army 2 ... it was all about stealth, even in MOUT.

Maybe what I see as missing for "stealth" impacting CQB?

p.s. funny thing: in CounterStrike: Global Offensive every once in a while ... with good team V good team ... stealth comes into play.

[squirrel0311 16]

There's quite a few things... they can do to improve it. Collision detection, automatic movement of weapon to 'fit' inside a door, buildings modelled for better geometry therefore less clipping/character getting stuck, less of a lean on not such a big angle, ability to swap weapon hands, smooth transition and reload animations, ability to transition while moving, fluid animations, ability to get closer to each other or objects for a stack, vaulting through windows or over walls, smaller destructable parts of a building for breach points, multiple buildings with different shaped rooms and interconnecting rooms, basements and attics, improved and accurate grenade system quite like AA2/3, AI scripts such as mixed stances not just instant prone upon CQB, the AI using lean, waiting in door ambush (CQB module teehee), etc.

HERE HERE!

Pretty much everything that you mentioned is something I’ve had in my wish list. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?125819-ArmA-3-Community-wishes-amp-ideas-NO-DISCUSSION/page213

The thing about everything being smooth is why I (at this point and time) disagree with the people who complain about inertia being removed from the game. Yes I know that in real life weight takes a toll on motion and responsiveness and I know people don’t want an FPS twitch shooter because it’s not “super ultra realism†but neither is not being able to move your arms, twist your body or figure out how to fit your body and your moderate length weapon through a doorway and still pie a corner.

I’ve read the complaint that a person with a sniper rifle shouldn’t be able to spin around as fast as someone with a pistol and to an extent I agree…but I also think that if those people have ever done any reaction drills in real life they’d be surprised at just how fast someone armed with a long rifle can turn around and become an immediate threat. I’d much rather die in a game from being stupid and trying to get in close behind someone for a silly troll move than trying to move through a door or along a wall and getting stuck long enough to have them turn around and shoot me.

For prone it’s different…I think for prone you should only be able to aim freely to about a…eh 45-60 degree range? Any more than that and you would have to press down and left or right arrow at the same time to spin in increments of 90 or so degrees. The animation should look something similar to shifting left or right while in the prone since you need to raise up high enough to clear your chest rig to some extent.

I’ve also read the complaint that having such smooth fluid movement takes away from the tactical thinking involved because players can just run and gun and no longer have to “think smartâ€. I disagree with this entirely because I believe fluid movement and quick responsiveness only up the stakes, thereby increasing the need for smart, tactical decision making because if you don’t take the time to plan and execute properly you’ll simply get shot on entry.

I explain most of this more in-depth in my wish list but basically…We’re supposed to be trained soldiers, we should know how to short stock our weapons, switch shoulders (Lean left – weapon in left shoulder, lean right – weapon in right shoulder) and do quick weapons transitions. (Which is why I want my number keys back…it may be arcade to use number keys to select weapons but if you think about it…In real life…. All the tactical gear that people buy is designed for one purpose… to make your gear easier to wear, access, and use. This same concept could be applied to the use of number keys.)

On top of all that, you should be able to climb up and turkey peek over walls and then climb over and when climbing up a ladder you should automatically stay prone or low crouching/sitting, not the crappy standing animation on the very last rung. Like you said making holes in walls with rockets or explosives, climbing through windows if they’re big enough (Don’t use a door if you don’t have to.) and also muzzle thumps or something to break out windows (clear firing space) or if they do something with locked doors… knock them down.

I feel that smoothness should be the foundation first and foremost, upon which everything else is built on. No getting stuck on walls or doors, unable to step over ledges, sinking into floors.

Now I should go ahead and make it known that I don’t really play with AI anymore, to me they’ve already grown stale. I like playing against other people who think and do something different besides, go prone, engage, flank, or flee. Someone who knows the difference between harassing fire and suppression, breaking contact and simple fleeing, yes I like to play against people…to kill them and wear their skins. Hahaha (I’m listening to Goodbye Horses right now.)

For the AI bit, I typed out a little question about CQB AI a while ago but I couldn’t find the thread I wanted to post it in so I just deleted it.

Basically I’d like to know if we could just sort of have some kind of specialty AI… The current AI would be used for outdoors engagements and vehicles while an indoors AI could be better suited for operating in buildings. Posting on strong points, keeping those footholds, pairing up and making sure each entry and avenue was covered while remaining AI stand in supplementary positions looking out but standing away from windows to keep situational awareness on what’s going on outside. If they were placed outside they could be assigned buildings of responsibility so that in the event something happens they stack up and enter, maybe break up in teams of two to clear rooms if the threat level is low and restack when they get to where the greatest probability of a threat is. Oh and one thing that I try to stress while playing online but it rarely gets through…. They would set security on buildings before they entered!

Does anyone remember the AI from F.E.A.R.? If all the above things were implemented I think it would be cool (if we had furniture) to see them bust into a room and kick over tables and cabinets to use as cover to help slow or stop bullets… of if they knew you were about to enter… kick over cabinets, tables, and chairs in an effort to block your path and slow you down or create a hasty barricade.

I suppose though that if someone went through all the trouble to make CQB AI they could just ad that code to the original AI… I don’t know much about that stuff though so maybe not.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Squirrel0311

[clarionhorn 10]

red orchestra 2 uses deadzone aiming and has inertia, but it plays extremely smoothly and realistically. i think it's because in that game, the animations are dependent on your actions, whereas in arma 3, animations dictate how long your actions take. you cannot "cancel" an action mid way and do something else.

[13islucky 10]

red orchestra 2 uses deadzone aiming and has inertia, but it plays extremely smoothly and realistically. i think it's because in that game, the animations are dependent on your actions, whereas in arma 3, animations dictate how long your actions take. you cannot "cancel" an action mid way and do something else.

The thing with the RO2 deadzone is that the camera moves at the same time as the weapon, making it feel (in my opinion) a little clumsy, even if it works. I do agree on the animations, though. I wonder if it's possible in ArmA.