Blackhawk down

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FetishFool @ June 15 2002,13:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I understand why you guys ignore or even hate racism, but if you give it a good thought, you'd understand that racism is a great thing.

The bi-product of Racism is racial appreciation.

You can't love something that someone else doesn't hate.

And remember, we're racist every day.  We don't notice it because we express our daily racism non-aggressively.

Just remember this the next time you say "I ain't shopping at a chinese super market." ; "I wouldn't buy an Afgani car." or "Eskimo?".<span id='postcolor'>

result doesn't justify means in most cases, especially in terms of bi-products.

[Warin 0]

Everyone will have racial biases. That's pretty much normal. It's when you make blatant and unwaranted assaults on a racial group that it goes over the line.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I hate racism, this combined with your spam post hasn't resulted in a good day for you has it, consider your post restrictions gone until further notice.<span id='postcolor'>

Shouldnt that be posting rights, Placebo?

Back to Blackhawk Down

They needed speed and surprise. The problem, like is said both in the book and move, when Super Six One went down they lost the initiative. I mean, the Rangers and Delta had to move to the crash site, and then the Convoy kept driving in the wrong direction because of the lag in relaying info from the Orion to the JOC to the C2 Helo to the Convoy. If the Blackhawk hadnt been shot down, The convoy would have followed it's pre planned route, extraccted teh Rangers, and probably made it back. With the number of Somalis that were in the area, I am sure there would have been casualties... but guys like Smith and Ruiz would likely have lived. (I know Ruiz died on a medevac flight to Germany, but if he hadnt had to be out in the field wounded over night, I bet he would have survived)

[Placebo 12]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ June 15 2002,16:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I hate racism, this combined with your spam post hasn't resulted in a good day for you has it, consider your post restrictions gone until further notice.<span id='postcolor'>

Shouldnt that be posting rights, Placebo? <span id='postcolor'>

Baaaah same difference

[Benze 0]

They should have just sent the US Marines in. Far better than these pansy ranger folks.   They kicked assonance in peacekeeping and they were meant to fight, so why not let them do their job and fight?

I mean, and the doctrine would have them fight with cobras too. Imagine somalia with attack choppers.

And the "initiative" talked about so much in the book, where that guy hesitated when he said the guy was dead in the car over the radio, history shows the Marines don't really have that anywhere. Where a normal fighting force such as the rangers loses 30% and just stops fighting, the usmc kept fighting with it's normal vigor. No one really expected all those people to attack, but just think...

How far were they away?

[Placebo 12]

Benze your pic looks a bit rough shrunk down so much, this looks a bit better

[Warin 0]

Actually Benze,

The USMC was there, 20,000 men strong earlier in 93. They were sent in to make sure that aid went to the hungry, not to the warlords warehouses.

The Rangers and Delta were much better suited to the later actions against Aidid. I am not knocking the Marines. If the goal had been to take Mog by force and pacify the city... the Marines would have been the men for the job. But the hit and fade tactics used to try to capture Hadr Gibr leadership was and is far more suited to the Delta teams, backed by the Rangers.

Strange thing is that the Marines were genuinely considered to be saviours..then the Rangers screwed that opinion of Americans up

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ June 15 2002,08:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Everyone will have racial biases.  That's pretty much normal.   It's when you make blatant and unwaranted assaults on a racial group that it goes over the line.  

<Snip><span id='postcolor'>

Interesting side note: the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles has two entrance doors, above which are the signs "Prejudiced" and "Non-Prejudiced". The door with the sign that says "Non-Prejudiced" doesn't open...

I agree that the vast majority (if not all) of the population has some bias against some people, however slight. The difference is that the people who appear more tolerant simply don't act on thos biases.

[Guest]

Our human minds work on the basis of generalizations. We learn in the form of noting special cases and making a general model. The problem is in the fact that we make generalizations on too little data to make it valid.

Since we are adaptable human beings, we can learn not to act on our first impulse. We can also learn by abstraction instead of on direct expirience. In that way we can with minimal intelligence learn to be tolerant to a group even if an individual that belongs to that group does something bad to you personally.

I am not very surprised that the ppl that have posted racist things in the forums are not among the brighter members, intellectually speaking.

[Aculaud 0]

I just think they should have dropped everyone AWAY from Bakara Market. Not too far, close enough so they could proceed on foot without exhausting themselves, but far enough away so that the number of RPG toating Somalis would have been reduced enough. Use the same insertion location for extracting the rangers, and the Delta guys could stay on foot to provide rear security for the convoy.

[Warin 0]

I cant believe they made a dumbass pinko swede like Denoir into a moderator!!

The above is an example of a generalization based on a knee jerk reaction.

I cant believe they made Denoir into a Moderator!

The above is a reaction based on the fact that now I cant make fun of him anymore or I will get banned

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FetishFool @ June 15 2002,07:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And remember, we're racist every day.  We don't notice it because we express our daily racism non-aggressively.

"I wouldn't buy an Afgani car."<span id='postcolor'>

ummmm.. I wouldn't buy an Afghani car becuse their industrial standards would be so weak and the car would be a piece of junk (like the Yugo was here some years back). That's not racism, that's smart shopping. Now, you can buy all the crappy cars you want and say you aren't racist becuse of it, but we'll just be laughing at you.

[Warin 0]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ June 15 2002,223)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just think they should have dropped everyone AWAY from Bakara Market. Not too far, close enough so they could proceed on foot without exhausting themselves, but far enough away so that the number of RPG toating Somalis would have been reduced enough. Use the same insertion location for extracting the rangers, and the Delta guys could stay on foot to provide rear security for the convoy.<span id='postcolor'>

The insertion points were based on security for the Delta team assaulting the meeting building.  It wasnt like they could do it much differently.  Each Ranger chalk held a corner near the target building and formed a permiter.  Right up to the point where the first Blackhawk went down, everything was going according to plan...other than the amount of fire they were receiving.

And far enough away from RPG toting Somalis... they would have had to stay back at the base

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DayGlow @ June 14 2002,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it was a suppressed M4 like you said. If they were a sniper team then Gordon would have been a scout/spotter for Shugart and a suppressed weapon would help him in that role.

COLINMAN<span id='postcolor'>

I just watched the DVD again, and paused the movie in a few places that offered a good view of the weapon.

I don't think it's an M4. It has the old-style thin handguard, lacks the cut in the barrel profile for attaching an M-203, and has A1 sights on a non-removeable handle. It is probably a Colt Commando.

[FetishFool 0]

Okay, I didn't make my post about the racism thing clear.

I had to cut out most of it because it ended up being an essay.

Think deep. You never love anything unless there was hate (or pain) involved.

A mother loves her baby child because the pain almost killed her during the 9 months. It's a relief to see the child out of her, and have the pain go away. Just how we love taking a shit. We don't notice the pain that the shit in our rectum causes because we're used to it. After the shit is out, we feel so good. And we end up saying that we like shits.

A father doesn't automatically love his child with all his heart. He'll love it after he invested over $100 000 into it by the time it was 15 years old.

If you don't believe me, who's the parent that often leaves the baby to a babysitter if he wants to go to the bar, or to the car show? Then when the baby is a teen, he'll risk losing his life numerous times protecting it from getting harmed.

You really have to want to believe what I'm saying.

Because I can't give you 100 examples to convince you.

[Placebo 12]

I love my parents, my sister, my niece and nephews and other family members and there was no hurt/pain involved, I've loved pets and there was no hurt/pain involved, well until they died but then the love came first so isn't relevant

I do see what you're driving at though, I just don't strictly agree with it

A mother can adopt a baby and still love it right?

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A father doesn't automatically love his child with all his heart.<span id='postcolor'>

Obviously you arent a parent

My son was born at 1 am after 18 hours of really hard labour (I almost punched out an obstetrician) for my wife, and then a cesarian section. I was there for his birth (live surgery, woohoo! and for the first two hours of his life it was just he and I in the nursery. And after five minutes, I would have laid my life down for his. Not being condescending..but until you've experienced there is really nothing that can prepare you for that sort of love...

I think its genetic, so you dont strangle the little bundle of joy after the third night being awoken from a sound sleep to the howls of hunger

So it's not a matter of:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You really have to want to believe what I'm saying.

Because I can't give you 100 examples to convince you.<span id='postcolor'>

It's a matter of picking TOTALLY the wrong example to try to make your point. Good thing Avon is arounds..you'd get a total barrage...after all, shes got SEVEN of them!