Gunnery and Targeting Bug Thread

[magnus28 1]

Can I get some feedback from the community and possibly a response from the Developers?

I see BI boasting about the 158 tweak patch, but what about the serious bugs that have been reported for months and not fixed?

You can tweak 100 minor things like animation bugs, missing textures, etc.. but these are not game breaking.. please here us on what needs to be addressed immediately...

-'Engage at will' never worked properly.

If you are a tank commander, why must you tell your gunner to engage each individual target that he spots for you if he is set at 'engage at will'?

If my gunner spots 10 infantry milling about around a camp and I tell him to engage, I shouldn't have to select each soldier individually and get him to attack!

- Air to Air missiles will lock on to ground targets, but my main cannon won't?

funny, because most modern aircraft have complex targeting systems, so if I get a radar lock, It shouldn't disappear if I change to MG. Again, the AA missle when selected will display a targeting box on an enemy aircraft, but will disappear if I switch to MG.

-Gunners in tank crews will engage targets with AP/HE/MG rounds, but as soon as you select main cannon, they won't? (sometimes you can get them to track and order command fire, but other times if you select the wrong ammunition type i.e anti-tank rocket, they won't fire on ctrl+left click).

-getting attack chopper ai gunner to fire on infantry is like pulling teeth. trying to fly a chopper and select each indvidual to target is a pain in the rear. And if you ask gunner to engage vehicle with cannon, he does a burst and you have to tell him to fire again and again until the target is destroyed.

-Why can the A10 target infantry on the ground, and SU-25, SU-35 can't?

I fly over enemy town and all of a sudden I see dozens of neat, tiny little infantry with boxes around them! If A10 can destroy them with it's overpowered 30mm cannon, then the SU-25 (it's actually an SU-39 modelled in game btw) should be able to do the same with it's rockets.

Not trying to flame or rant, just when you play a game for a long time, and you see such obvious major bugs that the community points out - that go ignored, it's frustrating!

but when you advertise things like

"AI is improved, especially (but not only) in combat, AI has received numerous bug fixes "

it's a slap in the face to the community!

AI (especially in combat) has NOT been fixed, the AI is just as retarded as it ever was, they are stupid when it comes to being told to engage anything.

Seems like if you send an ai crew off by themselves, they have no problem auto engaging infinite amount of targets, but as soon as you throw a human in the mix, all of a sudden they can't do anything!!

And this is combat related, but not necessarily related to gunnery/targeting.

MAKE AI DRIVERS FOLLOW THE DAMN ROADS! no more driving off into a bush when i nicely lined my tank up in the center of the road and told him to drive to "X" which the closest and most obvious route would be up the main road 1000m

and last but not least

NO MORE MAKING MY CHOPPER DROP OUT OF THE SKY WHEN I HIT MAP OR SCROLL IN THE OPTIONS, this should have been fixed about 2 years ago.

please fix these issues!

[Gremlin 0]

This is why I have always commanded vehicles from the driver position. I wouldn't mind commanding from the commander position if there weren't vehicle command limitations/AI issues that haven't been resolved. AI drivers are idiots. BI has decided, with one of the recent beta patches, that commanding AI action must be from the commander position, before fixing these limitations. IRL this would work as there are trained humans driving the vehicle and/or manning/loading the gun. With the new Beta patch, the human loses control of his AI due to some purist claim that this isn't like IRL. What I find as ironic is the purist tells me I can switch vehicle positions to overcome the game limitations (just like IRL, huh?). This is why I didn't game with the WGL and the ACE mod, as I just want to have fun.

[.kju 3240]

Make a CIT ticket for each with repro steps and a simple demo mission:

CIT # How-to-report-a-bug

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

-'Engage at will' never worked properly.

If you are a tank commander, why must you tell your gunner to engage each individual target that he spots for you if he is set at 'engage at will'?

If my gunner spots 10 infantry milling about around a camp and I tell him to engage, I shouldn't have to select each soldier individually and get him to attack!

a) Right now an AI only uses certain weapons (mostly MG and rockets type) automatically.

For sabot/missiles you need to command fire each target.

I would favor use on AI gunners discretion at least with sabot too, yet that topic is probably most personal preference - some want to act AI only on commander orders.

b) AI has far worse spotting capabilities than most humans.

And you hear many already complain. Guess what would happen if BI would bump up AI spotting skills?

- Air to Air missiles will lock on to ground targets, but my main cannon won't?

funny, because most modern aircraft have complex targeting systems, so if I get a radar lock, It shouldn't disappear if I change to MG. Again, the AA missle when selected will display a targeting box on an enemy aircraft, but will disappear if I switch to MG.

a) Air2Air missile ability to lock ground is a bug/technical limitation. There is a CIT ticket for it.

b) What modern aircraft air in CO - The F-35 and?

c) You really want to tell us planes are to attack infantry with their main gun?

And they get target computer support for that?

Sorry unless you provide evidence this is laughable. :)

-Gunners in tank crews will engage targets with AP/HE/MG rounds, but as soon as you select main cannon, they won't? (sometimes you can get them to track and order command fire, but other times if you select the wrong ammunition type i.e anti-tank rocket, they won't fire on ctrl+left click).

a) Main cannon - see first question.

b) Provide samples where "command fire" does not work.

-getting attack chopper ai gunner to fire on infantry is like pulling teeth. trying to fly a chopper and select each indvidual to target is a pain in the rear. And if you ask gunner to engage vehicle with cannon, he does a burst and you have to tell him to fire again and again until the target is destroyed.

a) Again AI has far worse spotting capabilities. Imagine the whine by most players if it where otherwise.

b) Ones uses unguided rockets vs infantry normally.

c) Use engage at will on the chopper gunner.

d) AI weapon use is based on distance to target - which make sense in general.

Sure most settings could be tweaked - yet in general to have AI waste massive amount of ammo isnt good either.

And you can always manual fire ..

-Why can the A10 target infantry on the ground, and SU-25, SU-35 can't?

I fly over enemy town and all of a sudden I see dozens of neat, tiny little infantry with boxes around them! If A10 can destroy them with it's overpowered 30mm cannon, then the SU-25 (it's actually an SU-39 modelled in game btw) should be able to do the same with it's rockets.

a) AFAIK the A10 was made for ground combat.

b) The target computer, at least in that overpowered way, is unrealistic for the A10.

c) A10 main gun cannot lock infantry - just like Su25 and Su34.

d) You cannot use rockets to kill infantry? Maybe you simply need more training?

---

So it is your turn now to provide quality CIT tickets. ;)

[Gremlin 0]

PVPscene: It took BIS about a year to fix my CIT on the commander being able to order a switch between AP and HE (which I consider a major vehicle commander problem). This was caused by a change in options during the ArmA II upgrade to Operation Arrowhead to allow for "Smoke". ArmA 3 will be out when these proposed problems may be resolved. Meanwhile..."Smoke 'em if you got 'em."

[.kju 3240]

Gremlin you make up things and do not state facts. "the realism" argument was never used

by the WGL team - nor by the ACE team I believe.

It is only some fanatics/fans that take those strong positions..

So what is your alternative to try to help BI fix the issues?

[Gremlin 0]

I am not "making" things up and I will not flame. I am out of here on this. I apoligize if my comments offended you.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Gremlin

[.kju 3240]

PS: I was main dev of WGL 5 ..

[Gremlin 0]

I am retired military and have done my "time." I have no problem with WGL or ACE for those that want that style. It is just not my mode of gaming. I enjoy vanilla OA type of gaming but don't want to play the COD, MW, et al., channeled shoot-em up style games. Also, I am also not into the "yes sir" and "no sir" stuff just because someone purchased/runs a server. WGL and ACE exists for those that want the hardcore gaming experience, as it should be.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Gremlin

[magnus28 1]

pvp you are right on certain things you posted, but missed the mark on others.

A) A10 can target infantry (not lock on to them) in game.. Just look for the small squares around them as you fly around.

B) Of course I can waste infantry with rockets - no need to bash my ability as a pilot, AFAIK you never saw me play, therefore have no justification to make such a comment. That being said when there is only 1 or 2 resistance fighters left holding a town, would be nice if you could spot them in a Su-25 the same way you could in an a10. I don't know about you - but I prefer not to waste rockets 'spec firing' a town.

C) AFAIK Su25/Su39 is a GROUND ATTACK fighter as well!

here look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

http://www.aviation.ru/Su/25/Su-25.html

http://www.hudi.republika.pl/Su-25-1.htm

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1612&catid=256

before you suggest I waste my time and write a ticket, why don't you go back 2 years and look at all the tickets that still have been waiting to get fixed?

[.kju 3240]

As said I still believe that the A10 target computer is wrong/unrealistic/too simplified/gamey - unless proven otherwise.

To have it display, single, infantry contacts is just laughable.

Yes it is in, however it should not be (in that way).

To add that faulty system also to other planes is certainly the wrong way to go.

A ground attack fighter means to attack vehicles, no?

(not to attack, single, infantry)

I try my best to get things fixed and improved (CIT).

You can search it for the amount of tickets and posts by me.

What about you?

[magnus28 1]

couldn't be bothered to waste my time and write tickets.

They are already aware of these issues, but for some reason seem to ignore the major ones, and go for the smaller tweaks

[KeyCat 131]

No offence but your attitude does not really help and you are missing one very important thing....

What is a major bug/issue for you can be a minor bug/issue for somoeone else and vice versa, I'm sure the dev's have their own fav topics they prefer to see fixed even if they try to look at the whole picture.

With the scope of ArmA-verse where they practically try to simulate RL with everything from sneaky one man sniper missions to all out World War III scenarios there will allways be bugs/issues and compromises.

The best way to increase the chance your pet peve bug/issue is looked into is to help testing out new betas and give feedback in appointed threads and - as kju already mentioned - use the CIT voting feature and/or add more info to existing tickets (or create a new one if needed), best of all is to provide a simple repo mission and clear instructions.

Hope to see you in the beta thread!

PS: And no aircraft "lock on" and engage infantry with their guns. I'm sure they use their valuable ammo for higher pri targets even if they can fire at infantry technically speaking.

/KC

Edited January 15, 2012 by KeyCat

[magnus28 1]

apparently, I wasn't clear enough on the a-10 issue.

When you fly a10 in vanilla arma 2, if you look at your HUD, it paints every single infantry that is in your LOS with a little green square. That means if you are trying to cap a town and there is only 1 guy hiding in the town, fly an a-10 overhead and look at your HUD. You will be like " oh! there he is! ".

A-10 should not be able to target infantry.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Very strange with vanilla A2OA + latest betabuild you can't lock infantry and there are no little green squares around any single infantry units. Vehicles are marked with green boxes in aircraft HUD.... just re-check that you play/test with latest vanilla and not some "mixed-up with other addons/mods" Arma. ;)