precisionEnemy in 1.60

[eggbeast 3673]

here's the starting config server user profile we're going to use, but i fear the evofillinf and init might need some attention too, as they modify the skill based on soldier type (protestor/insurgent/ soldier/ mvd/specop etc)

class Difficulties
{
class Recruit
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.2;
//		precisionEnemy=0.10000001;
};
class Regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=1;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=1;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.5;
//		precisionEnemy=0.20499997;
};
class Veteran
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=1;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=0;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonId=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=0.7;
//		precisionEnemy=0.30000001;
};
class Mercenary
{
	class Flags
	{
		3rdPersonView=0;
		armor=0;
		autoAim=0;
		autoGuideAT=0;
		autoSpot=0;
		cameraShake=1;
		clockIndicator=0;
		deathMessages=1;
		enemyTag=0;
		friendlyTag=0;
		hud=1;
		hudGroupInfo=1;
		hudPerm=1;
		hudWp=1;
		hudWpPerm=1;
		map=0;
		netStats=1;
		tracers=0;
		ultraAI=1;
		unlimitedSaves=1;
		vonID=1;
		weaponCursor=0;
	};
	skillFriendly=1;
	precisionFriendly=1;
	skillEnemy=1;
//		precisionEnemy=0.5;
};
};
shadingQuality=7;
shadowQuality=3;
singleVoice=0;
maxSamplesPlayed=32;
sceneComplexity=300000;
viewDistance=1600;
terrainGrid=10;
volumeCD=6.5;
volumeFX=6.5;
volumeSpeech=6.5;
volumeVoN=6.5;
vonRecThreshold=0.029999999;

NB: edited - this is the user profile we run on the server (as detailed at top of thread - thanks for clarifying wording suma)

Edited January 6, 2012 by eggbeast

[suma 8]

here's the starting config profile we're going to use, but i fear the evofillinf and init might need some attention too, as they modify the skill based on soldier type (protestor/insurgent/ soldier/ mvd/specop etc)

The precision never ever worked in the CfgSkills config. It was added there only because of a misunderstanding of the config coder. It has worked only in the user profile file.

[.kju 3244]

Suma there is a misunderstanding, is it not?

It is possible to tweak AI capabilities via

• the difficulties settings GUI (skill and precision setting; and super-AI)
  
• or unit skill per unit basis (in the editor)
  
• or CfgSkills attributes (the config defaults or by scripting)
  

So far most people used the precision setting in difficulties settings to reduce (enemy) AI infantry weapon hit capabilities.

Only some exposed CfgSkills attributes tweaking by config defaults or scripting by client/server side addons.

Like these should also affect AI hit capabilities:

• aimingAccuracy
  
• aimingShake
  
• aimingSpeed
  

Ref:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CfgAISkill

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Difficulty

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_AI_Combat_Modes#AI_Skill

See also: Feature #24408: Questions on CfgAISkill and setSkill array

Edited January 5, 2012 by .kju [PvPscene]

[eggbeast 3673]

suma/pvpscene

thanks for inputting - this is a challenge we have to get right - as the gameplay balance has been dramatically affected by the patch (now confirmed as removal of earlier partial support for precisionenemy)

If you see our user profile (i have corrected the terminology in my post above) above I'll investigate setting this and also by script (see evo_fillinf extract in post at top of thread which manages skill for type of enemy spawning in evo)

i'm thinking we should set skill to 1.0 in profile as before but use

setskill array in script evo_fillinf to modify

aimingAccuracy

aimingShake

aimingSpeed

so we get a more rich but playable experience

the changes made in the patch have been like taking a blunt instrument to a sophisticated control panel the community has spent a lot of time calibrating lol

thanks for your support in understanding it

I'll keep testing with our guys and feed back a solution.

I think mission makers are going to need to put in a default script now to tweak AI settings to manage precision in their missions so we established mission makers ought to do our best to work on the fix before we get a flood of separate enquiries about "why is the AI so daft/ so hard"?

this has always been arma's biggest challenge imho - the potential is so great for realistic firefights. not having the ability to easily turn down base accuracy (while retaining skill of enemy tactics - for fun games and realism -i.e. they wont just let you run up to them and shoot them) means a bit of work for mission makers to get this right again after the patch. turning the skill down is probably not going to be the right fix for us.

thanks again - let's keep on it

Edited January 7, 2012 by eggbeast

[.kju 3244]

please check this comment and further below:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27417#note-16

[icebreakr 3157]

Default settings are *just not realistic* - AI is usually able to aim in a record time and put single shot (doesn't matter if its 7.62x39 or .50cal) to the center mass at an amazing distance ;)

That is why a majority used precisionEnemy and precisionFriendly settings in the user profile on server.

Edited January 6, 2012 by IceBreakr

[sickboy 13]

So the difference now is that you must tweak the Skill setting instead of the Precision setting, since the Skill setting affects the precision.

But also as PvpScene pointed out, there are other scripted or config possibilities.

Also I do wonder if "Default settings" these days are still not realistic, a lot of tweaking was done for 1.60 and beyond.

To get default settings you'll first have to delete your arma2oaprofile file and let it be recreated.

Lastly it's important to disable mods when testing the default settings.

[domokun 515]

So the difference now is that you must tweak the Skill setting instead of the Precision setting, since the Skill setting affects the precision.

Wow that's very interesting. I would have never guessed that. In fact I think that very few people would guess. It's not exactly intuitive.

Personally I really liked the way is was before, i.e. Skill and Precision were seperated. It allowed for cunning AI without suffering from Terminator-syndrome.

BTW can someone confirm that the in-game slider for Precision works or not?

[eggbeast 3673]

i've never even used the GUI, only the profile and the scripting. I'm going to have to rewrite the AI spawn code in 30 missions :( but at least I know what is happening now - patch notes were poor to say the least.

however BEFORe I rewrite my 30 missions I want to test and find out the best settings to use now - this is the priority for us mission makers imo.

I'm going to edit the AI spawn script in evolution here

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2081918&postcount=16

and add in some values for these

aimingAccuracy

aimingShake

aimingSpeed

however will need to test first before rolling out.

Edited January 7, 2012 by eggbeast

[sickboy 13]

Rewrite 30 missions? Hopefully you meant rewriting 1 library and updating the library in 30 missions ;-)

[eggbeast 3673]

what's a library?

yeah basically it's a sqf that happily I've homogenised across the stock of missions

butit does mean repacking each one of 30

then uploading them to our server and download resource etc

[Overlord 0]

Even if skill/precision settings was separated by "mistake" in the first place, it seems like the community like it, find it very useful and miss it.

It's also a server-side setting, and server manager choose to configure their servers in a broad variety concerning enemy AI behaviour.

Is it too much to ask to re-introduce this "mistake", or as I choose to call it, "expanded server settings" in server files?

No bad feelings to anyone, it's still a great game, but why not make it even better. BIS knows how to do it, they have proven it before :)

[totalboffin 10]

I've been reading the comments with interest. Just trying to get my head around what the options are. At the moment I'm using setSkill to lower the skill/accurracy? of the AI in the mission.

I did look at setSkill Array but doesn't convinced this actually worked on a dedicated mutliplayer server game?

Does anyone have any recent experience / test data on using setSkill array with 1.60?

I, like alot of others, would like highly skilled AI players (so use cover intelligently, flank around you, wait for a group of AI before attacking etc) but have their aim/shooting accuracy reduced to make it playable/fun.

Boffin.

[eggbeast 3673]

yeah you're in a big club there boffin!

[Kamakazi 11]

Been suffering a bit with terminator syndrome on a lot of older maps, regardeless of weapons. The balance is lost and players are an endangered species even against farmers and civi's. Its changed our gameplay into scary sneaky style, the idea's of flow and timing within the map lost with this. To say its a big change is an understatement.

Anyways, main idea was how does the ASR-AI do it - Somehow it use configs and inheritance to change all the man objects - is it still working as intended? Could that idea be expanded to us simple map makers negating variation in the future. Sort of a script version but more universal like CBA.

Dont realy want another addon, but do want a way to 'fix' soldiers and the balance of a map.

Once a map gets 'balanced' how do we keep it now.

[jedra 11]

Anyways, main idea was how does the ASR-AI do it - Somehow it use configs and inheritance to change all the man objects - is it still working as intended? Could that idea be expanded to us simple map makers negating variation in the future. Sort of a script version but more universal like CBA.

Dont realy want another addon, but do want a way to 'fix' soldiers and the balance of a map.

Once a map gets 'balanced' how do we keep it now.

According to the author, the precision enemy changes will not affect ASR-AI as it manages the skill sets at a lower level. If you have this on the server then all server controlled AI will use ASR-AI's skill set arrays.

Fort mission making, you can overrided the skill sets in the userconfig file by adding them to your init.sqf - this will then set up the skills for a particular mission rather than using the defaults in userconfig. They are all global vars after all.

[totalboffin 10]

Do the skill array functions actually work on dedicated multiplayer missions?

[styxx42 0]

Glad I found this topic.

I just want to add my 2 cents that YES, AI ARE STONE COLD HEADSHOT ACES.

My small squad on our dedicated server playing co-op have suddenly become target dummies and we could not figure out what we did to change this.

I really hope that this gets addressed quickly, and with understanding how important that little change was to those of us that Play Co-op only, the consensus this weekend was the game is not enjoyable and has not been for a couple weeks. (Many comments from the team about how it was feeling more like RAINBOW SIX with handgun wielding AI at 200 paces face shooting us over and over and over)

I will be watching this topic closely and

Thanks to all you pro's for figuring it out and talking about it for us laymen to follow.

[totalboffin 10]

I've done some testing today on a dedicated multiplayer mission using the SetSkill Array option for all the ten possible category/values aiming accuracy etc) the AI act the same.

Setting all values to say 0.1 is the same as 0.9. The AI just default to a high setting.

so far the only effective way to limit the AI is with SetSkill

I was really hoping the Skill Array option would allow for control. Wonders if 1.61 will have any corrections to help.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Wouldn't it be better to have an userfriendly ingame AI GUI so people can choose their settings easily? Maybe even add presets for faster selection?

AI GUI should include at least precise slider for

• aimingAccuracy
  
• endurance
  
• spotDistance
  
• courage
  
• commanding
  

:)

[icebreakr 3157]

Damn, game is currently broken in COOP (we play that 90% of the time) and we'll probably get a million beta releases (that I and my squad don't use - too much hassle) before we see another official patch? :/

[Franklin 0]

No matter what setting I put the server on, AI are laser accurate. Please unfix your fix BIS.

[munger 25]

Agreed, this is currently a big problem for co-op/single player games. Reminds me of how OFP used to be, with no firefights and only tense sneak-a-thon style gameplay with sudden unseen death often the result. Sometimes this is intentional and fun, but not all the time.

PLEASE FIX BIS! :(

[NeMeSiS 11]

So the difference now is that you must tweak the Skill setting instead of the Precision setting, since the Skill setting affects the precision.

Didnt that already happen since the beginning of time though? Now we just lost the ability to set the precision independent of skill, which helps absolutely noone. Its probably the most adviced, and most effective advice given when someone complains about the AI being too good at shooting.

Just because they aim too well does not mean we want to make them worse at shooting and blind and slow at the same time.

[.kju 3244]

Made a new ticket that is hopefully more clear about the importance of the issue:

Feature #27851: Bring back userfriendly ingame AI precision setting slider in the settings GUI