SOPA - Internet as we know it about to be gone?

[vilas 473]

Orban and his clique are far from being democratic, they are trying to suppress any pluralism, opposing forces and independant press, his militias are reminding us the saddest days of Europe.

what you call independent press ? such press as i have in Poland, which is bought and serves only interests of few big companies, only liberal government and only to put people against any opposition (no matter left or right wing)

do you call independent press, press which is owned by few very rich people who support one party in 101% and try to discredit any oppose voices or ignore facts or even lie ?

you know what is saddest days of Europe?

thats that instead of live our peaceful European lifestyle we return to XIX century, rats race, big social inequalities, big corruption, bribery, lack of listening governments of voice of people (taxpayers) and massive unemployment cause by few big companies whose bosses gave production to China or other countries (whole cities lost jobs)

Europe had it's industry, banks, social equality bigger than rest of world, social care, safety on streets better than in many other world areas, less level of competitive between people etc.

V.Orban is someone who we need in PL

if for example 78% wanted death punishment to be applied and in codex, why the hell they (ruling party) make lower and lower criminal punishments ,

people want strong law, and low is day by day less strong and more interpretable (depends of advocate, cause regulations are not one-meaning)

lots of criminals are not imprisoned, but Helskini Found takes care if criminal has good condition in prison ?

if you lived in our part of Europe you would understand what is "independent" press meaning

just when you turn our "independent private" media (connected in business with policitians families) you will hear "oposition is stupid, people you are too lazy, you must work harder, we must support EU in its efforts to help Greece and banks, there is corruption, there are no bribes, what a stupid hateflow from oposition, oposition are morrons" etc.

if i listen to mainstream media - oh, god, i live in another country

according to mainstream media i earn twice more money, according to mainstream media i was never unemployed, according to mainstream media i never had problems with courts

you really do not know what you are talking about, you live in France, not in Hungary or Poland or Slovakia

ask Slovaks about price rise after Euro was set

ask Poles about over 20% of unemployment and over milion of emigration (maybe 2 milions, which is 5% of population)

ask Poles about their salary which is 2-3 lower than "media" say

ask Poles about problems with getting a job after graduating university (people with high education have problems)

ask Poles about prices of credits, bank incomes (we pay biggest bank percents for transfer money, for account , for credits etc. )

i talk with one German some days ago, he was surprised hearing what money i have to give to bank for having account, for single transfer, for credit to buy small thing

liberal media say that only lazy and not educated people have no job

well, i knew some hard working students with high scores on university and they looked for job even year and emigrated

liberal media say that in my city i earn 5000 PLN, well, most of my neighbors earn 1800, 1700, 2300

liberal media say that there is no corruption, so have you read my post about criminal cases i had ?

and what about media and journalists who lie ?

do you believe that liars have right to lie ? cause me not

i believe that if journalist lies on and on and - he should be fired

freedom yes, lies no

i was on march on 11-11-11 (our independence day) in Warsaw and i know what i saw and what media said

anarchists attacked people with flags, in media they said that nationalists attacked people and police

i have seen different things than media said, cause i was there myself (not with flag, but with camera)

punks were attacking people walking with flag or reenactors

punks were spitting at people walking with flag

but corrupted media said that "nationalists attacked pedestrians and police"

wooow

the same i have seen at "Krakowskie Przedmieście" at rip president office

punks attacking old ladies which were praying

zero police reaction

but media were showing "look right-wing provokes"

while drunk punks were abusing people with crosses praying for dead president

things shown in such "independent" media are many times lies, other medias are independent without ironic " "

or you knowledge about Hungarian people problem is only from mainstream ? have you asked some Hungarians ? or you buy whatever your TV sells you

why EU started hate Orban ?

for independent bank ??? < probably for this

for new constitution that interest of Hungary is over interest of other countries and EU ?

Edited January 24, 2012 by vilas

[dm 9]

Most of this seems like it would be better off in the European Politics thread, no?

[whisper 0]

If you feel concerned by ACTA (and imho, you should be), go here : http://www.laquadrature.net/en/acta-letter-to-the-eu-parliament-development-committee

[NoRailgunner 0]

Watch out!

Lobby groups are likely to intensify their efforts to export SOPA-like rules to other countries. First country to agree with SOPA (export version) = Canada?

[topas 1]

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edit [wrong source quoted]

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Edited January 24, 2012 by topas

[sudayev 27]

V. Orban and his clique are far from being democratic, they are trying to suppress any pluralism, opposing forces and independant press, his militias are reminding us the saddest days of Europe.

All these Nationalist movements will only lead to one thing, as history showed us already : war.

But Martin is right, a dedicated topic should be opened.

What do you read? socialist Le Monde newspaper or alike? Because such slogans only appear in pro-euro socialist media. I'd more afraid of all these clownish, so called 'anti-fascist' militias (Useful idiots) sponsored by the Brussels and their statements that man+man is a family, Muslims come to Europe in search of peace, and all Poles waving with flags during our Independence day are brown fascists. Thank you very much Brussels for disrupting the society in the name of new-socialist-euro order.

Yes, we need new thread to discuss that :P

@vilas

why EU started hate Orban ?

for independent bank ??? < probably for this

for new constitution that interest of Hungary is over interest of other countries and EU ?

That's exactly what this fuss is all about. International banking usury is mad at Orban right now because they expected him to be obedient. while Brussels doesn't need a constitution putting Hungarians before their Babylonian law.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sudayev

[mrcash2009 0]

do you think that "anonymous" is provocation to give governments reasons to make harsh control over citizens ? why do you think so ?

Im just always dubious of any "anti" group that rally up at times like this, esp ones that use V for vendetta as some kind of symbol(ism).

I just dont take all "sides" as opposites, because you can never be certain top level isn't playing both sides, and in the current times this is a piece of cake. Again, that's just how I see it ... the telling signs are what they do and the "reaction" to what they have done (measures brought in from the back of it). Not suggesting every member is privvy to that, just like most organisation they can be infiltrated from the top level, its not exactly the world biggest secret.

So I stay firmly locked on watching both.

Ultimately check out the last 11 years.

Edited January 24, 2012 by mrcash2009

[nodunit 397]

Yes, we need new thread to discuss that :P

Yes we can call it worldwide government opression. In seriousness though perhaps we should have threads about it, I'm not very savvy on Euro politics much less politicians but I will say I was dissapointed to not see any public outcry against the National Defense Authorization Act which is essentially turning the United States into a fascist/nationalist state including a dictator minded government.

So if you guys are having troubles such as any freedoms being revoked I'd urge you to not let it go under the radar, otherwise you surely will lose them as we have and I doubt a thread about SOPA would attract as much attention at this point.

Edited January 24, 2012 by NodUnit

[dekster 1]

It's a long read, but it's worth it.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

[sudayev 27]

It's a long read, but it's worth it.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

I read this earlier, very good read. Thanks for posting this.

Here there is also a shorter video version, spoken by the man. Please watch this. In USSR they called him mental and put to mental institution because of his negative statements about USSR. Today all people criticizing the EU are called mentals and schizophrenic too.

(eng+esp+rus+slov language)

http://www.cda.pl/video/26464b3/Unia-Europejska-_-ZSRR (Polish version)

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sudayev

[vilas 473]

Yes we can call it worldwide government opression. In seriousness though perhaps we should have threads about it, I'm not very savvy on Euro politics much less politicians but I will say I was dissapointed to not see any public outcry against the National Defense Authorization Act which is essentially turning the United States into a fascist/nationalist state including a dictator minded government.

So if you guys are having troubles such as any freedoms being revoked I'd urge you to not let it go under the radar, otherwise you surely will lose them as we have and I doubt a thread about SOPA would attract as much attention at this point.

you'll never understand being European

USA was born as country which mutinied/stood from colony

people fought for their own independence , always keeping gun in case if their personal life is in danger

Europe had kings, had states since over thousand of years,

Europe was unarmed, people here were slaved (low classes) for ages or thousands (farmers for example were slaves of knights, nobels)

so people here are less... let's say assertive but value peace and easy life much more (we hate too big competition which you love)

but we never had control over our rulers in fact

thanx to Soviet revolution world divided into 2 blocks

thanx to cold war each side wanted to tease groups of people to support this side

thanx to it people had benefits (more and more social etc.)

when there is no 2 strong opposite sides, now there is no need to tease anyone (like situation of monopoly in economy)

you in america can mutiny anytime you feel that your freedom is in danger, cause you have gun, the same as policeman has

in Europe (mostly in our part) we are helpless and have only bare hands, so governments do whatever they want with us

of course we have also more safety, less shootings etc. but this coin has two sides

from one side we don't have much cycos roaming with gun, from other side, when our gov. makes decisions which 70% disapprove - we cannot do anything

you have different area of freedom , we have different area of freedom

in case when it comes to "influence of people on government" your system works better

in other situation our system worked (past tense) better (for example help to people who found themselves poor)

now we are facing big immigration, unemployment and dictature of corporations and banks (this dictate is not as visible as Hitler, Stalin) but it exist , once again situation of oligopoly , you want to live, you must take credit, you must be nice and work harder in job (emigrants can take it), to not loose it , cause you have credit... vicious circle

previously our life looked different , much easier and more peacefully

being American probably gives you much better possibility to for example show your protest and talk to local congressman or prosecutor when you have problem

being European makes it harder, cause here we always had "kings" and "those who obey"

only in past we had "so much peace and food" that we pissed on this

you know maximes for rule in Ancient Rome?

- divide et impera - divide people,conflict people, than you will have easier to rule

- panem et circenes - give them food, give them show, they will watch show, when they are not hungry all will be okay

now we have problems wiith this first part, we start to feel hunger, so we start to be very angry (this is hunger for social safety that my parents had, flat, no worries about loosing job, no worries about safety on street, no worries about future, no worries about holidays and fun) now many of us earn less and has to work harder and afraid of loosing jobs

if your American politicians will start spoil your country, when it will be boiling point, Americans can take gun and fight

we can't , so they can spoil country to the level that you cannot imagine, and you can't do anything except suicide , cause "they have all" even press which will be silent (so others will not know what happened to you)

if you call USA dictatorship, you should visit other countries , some from Africa, some from Latin America, few here in Europe for example trying to prove that policeman/judge/prosecutor/clerk/civil-servant/member of parliament was not right ;)

and how it is connected with ACTA ?

in poor countries people have no money to buy music, software, movies etc.

but they will be forced much more to buy (or be outlaws) things that they cannot afford (because of real wages here)

Japanese can afford one DVD easily, American, German too

for some Poles , Slovaks, Belarussians 1 DVD can be "day of work or 2 days of work" , really

i will give you simple example :

how much operating system costs to you (box, pro-) ?

200 USD ?

what percentage of your salary (monthly) it is ? 10% ?

how much such system in PL costs (pro, box) , it can be 800, 1000 PLN

how much young woman earns in shop every month ? 1200 , how much earns policeman or civil clerk ? 2200-2500, how much earns my friend who works in technical service laboratory ? 1800 , how big pension has my neigbor ? 1300

money that earns average French, German, Norwegian in PL earns... director in company, general, member of parliament

so when you criticize east europe, take this under account

can you imagine buying such system by them ?

so what they had to do ?

to take bank credit

do you know how much banks takes from me ?

in PL ?

bank account costs me around 8-10 PLN (1 USD = 3 PLN) per month

different banks takes provisions for different operation, for example for shopping banks takes 2% or 3% from shopkeeper

when i will take credit for 10 000 PLN (3000 USD for 3 years) in cheapest option i have to return to bank 13 000 PLN (30%), for example for foreign transfer banks wants even 60-100 PLN which is 15-25 (so when i was buying CD with music in Germany i was sending 10 EU bill in envelope)

so such acts will push many people to position of being outlaw or ... giving big money to banks again (to buy legal soft).. or not buying at all (my way, i will not have new PC with Win7 for Arma3, sorry, too expensive, i will choose third way to not pirate, heh)

many people will have problems (of course piracy is bad, but what can they do now in many countries)

loudest voices about anti-piracy comes from richest countries, shame that they do not understand that for us CD or DVD is not "penny" , it is many times heavy money,

how do you imagine young man to finish technical university without Windows and AutoCad ? ;)

so ... only children of rich parents will be engineers (MSc) ???

were there sudent licensions 10 years ago in PL , i can't remind such licenses in 1995, 1997 ?

guess how many of people who finished Warsaw Univeristy of Technology had legal AutoCad ? zero , sorry, 100% were outlaws :]

who would had 20 000 PLN while that times monthly salary was for example 800 PLN (if someone had job at all) ? so what they could do to finish studies legally ? nothing :(

AutoCad is just one example, but every job/education has such systems, like legal software which normal man cannot buy because it is too expensive, tax software etc.

so what will be our future ? no social class climb from low class ? feudalism back ?

born rich, die rich, born poor, live poor, die poor ?

maybe it is main issue, to make people poor uneducated :/ and like in USA "if you want money for studies, join army, die on war for our interests, if you will survive we can support you" ???

no way, we used to climb to mid class and educate ourselves,

it will be "making more slave to banks" again, thats why i am oppose

real fight with piracy can be won by rising our wages , not making all poor people uneducated criminals :]

unless big corporation planned for us 1984 & Metropolis & Soylent Green (btw, great movie) future and fight for food and not states and nations but Weyland Yutani

i had luck, i finished university of technology being very poor (good old europe) and i could climb from poverty to almost mid class

SOPA, ACTA will stop it , instead of this many people in poor countries will see bars and later will have to become criminals, not engineers

of course it looks totally different in countries where people earn a lot of money and one stupid DVD is not a problem

[daman3 19]

Today all people criticizing the EU are called mentals and schizophrenic too

Lol where you you from, thats definitely not the case

you in america can mutiny anytime you feel that your freedom is in danger, cause you have gun, the same as policeman has

A gun saves the people from abusing of the government? Take a look at some countries in Asia and Africa. These people are more helpless than we are in some parts, even though they have weapons, even bigger ones.

[whisper 0]

So called "left-wing" Giscard d'Estaing preparing EU to handle it to USSR? I laugh at the idea

Edited January 24, 2012 by whisper

[vilas 473]

why you laugh at this idea ? i don't understand it ?

i have no idea what meaning of your words

[whisper 0]

In mentioned speech, Bukovski sees Giscard d'Estaing speaking to USSR, warning them of upcoming UE, as a proof of the conspiration to makes EU the new USSR.

VGE is all but left-wing, he in fact sold our government to banks back in mid 70's. We are paying interest to them, no end, since that.

I find the image of him conspirating with USSR quite funny, tbh.

[vilas 473]

now i get it :]

many politicians are using false flag

saying about "socialism" and cutting social at once, saying about more freedom and cutting some business activities at the same time ;]

the same we had before EU : "it is only free travel, it is only free borders to move"

or in 1989 "now you all will be rich like those on Hollywood movies, big house, two cars"

some politicians who shout about strict law in TV on private are thieves and have a lot of speeding tickets to pay etc.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Getting us back on topic; don't let the big media companies fool you, when they tell you it is all about the artist. Plane and simple they are lying.

The same applies to those who create TV and Film.

Kind regards walker

[sudayev 27]

Next thing they will tell that netlabels are harming the industry and certain people are loosing their jobs.

Currently there are thousands of people protesting against ACTA on the streets of Polish cities.

Our dictator Donald Tusk have said - ;We will not surrender ACTA to the blackmailers; (protesting people, Anonymous, webpages, etc.) He also denied of any secrecy behind ACTA.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sudayev

[-martin- 10]

EU the new USSR

That's absurd and laughable :biggrin: The EU is nothing like the USSR, it will never have the same spirit, the same progress, culture and identity.

People in the USSR knew that they were in the USSR and of its accomplishments, in Britain people just know that there is some EU that Britain is a part of, no clue about what the EU stands for, any of its accomplishments... Nobody even knows what the national anthem of the EU is.

Getting us back on topic; don't let the big media companies fool you, when they tell you it is all about the artist. Plane and simple they are lying.

Excellent pie chart Walker,

The internet and websites like YouTube are actually the artists best friend. I found a lot of my favourite artists on YouTube by accident.

For example I found a Serbian singer on YouTube and ended up purchasing all his albums on CD because I wanted a hard copy. I also showed some of his tracks to my friend trough YouTube.

How would I ever get an opportunity to find him without YouTube if record shops in my area don't do Balkan music... Why would I purchase a CD to find out that the artist doesn’t appeal to me and how would I go about showing his songs to my friends if he did appeal to me? Post the CD to Russia or what?

They are trying to take us back to the days of cassettes.

The issue of record companies ripping artists off has been around for quite some time. A well-known (controversial) underground rapper from New York - Immortal Technique brings it to light in many of his songs.

Kind regards :smile:

Edited January 24, 2012 by -Martin-

[sudayev 27]

CBS writes about Polish anti-SOPA protests

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501366_162-57364609/polish-websites-to-go-dark-to-protest-acta/

[vilas 473]

even CBS agrees that ATAS works in pharmaceuticals

only Polish mainstream lies "no, no, only music industry, torrents, mp3"

i wonder how it will influent on prices of medical drugs/pharmacy in future + possibility to heal for poor people when you will not be able to produce "odpowiednik" counterparts of pharmaceutics

today's words of few musicians interviewed in radio "i have nothing against that poor boy downloads my mp3, maybe he will come to live show" (rock/metal station)

Edited January 24, 2012 by vilas

[sudayev 27]

They will eliminate the counterparts in the name of ACTA, so only expensive meds should remain on the market. Big pharmaceutical giants have our slimy politicians in one hand. Meanwhile doctors take huge gratifications from corporations to prescribe only - their products.

Meanwhile herr Donald Tusk sounds like Edward Gierek, a Polish commie leader from the 70s "There will be no concessions to brutal blackmail". The nation wants and needs ACTA.

If they accept ACTa in current form, the worst thing is - the piracy now will be punished form the criminal code :/ So they might put you to jail for such violation.

[[GLT] Legislator 62]

Well let's add an interesting feature to this discussion as I've read a lot about piracy here. Did you know that the german publisher Morphicon Ltd. is pursuing downloaders of ArmA II since june 2009? They use laywers and semi-legal companies (see list).

So something is not fitting here. If BIS is contra-SOPA, why do they act pro-ACTA (through the hands of the publisher)? :confused:

[-GR-Operative 10]

Hi all

Getting us back on topic; don't let the big media companies fool you, when they tell you it is all about the artist. Plane and simple they are lying.

[img*]http://www.eatliver.com/img/2010/5512.jpg[/img]

The same applies to those who create TV and Film.

Kind regards walker

Really good to know.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to [GLT] Legislator in the past your only method of getting to the Market was through the clutches of Not really "Producers", a marketing lie they do not actualy produce they leach so a more correct description would be the leachers.

As the internet is improved and methods of seccuring content release via the internet have improved, first with Steam and now with the Developer centric products like BIS's own Sprocket system the developers have gained new channels with which to distribute their products, but if a distribution chain pays for the right to distribute a product in a country where perhaps internet distribution is not permitted or generally accepted BIS are just like any other firm out to make a profit. If the Morphicon deal was better for them at the time or if they have an existing contract with Morphicon that does not allow them to get out of it, then needs must.

The fact is one a Producer has rights to distribution legally that is it as far as the developer is concerned. Heck there is probably a non disclosure contract paragraph that does not even permit BIS to so much as sneeze with regard to its distribution.

I think like any other form of Data based product the power is comming back to said developers, but artists who developed before the levels of broadband that now exist may well be chained to old fashioned technology by existing contracts or geospecific legal and social norms. Do most Germans now download their games or is Discs bought in the shop still the norm?

Kind regards walker

Edited January 24, 2012 by walker