God

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 09 2002,20:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 09 2002,14:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 09 2002,19:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 09 2002,12:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Atheist Fascist and Communist have done more harm to this world. 6 million in concentration camps, 25 million in the Gulag, 15 million in the Ukrainian terror famine, the second world war, I could go on.<span id='postcolor'>

However, they did not kill in the name of Atheism.  Unlike the Christian slaughters such as the Inquisition, Crusades, and ones by the IRA, and the KKK were.<span id='postcolor'>

They killed in the name of something, Just because its done in the name of God that does not make it a crime of the religion's.<span id='postcolor'>

So what?  That's not the argument here.  The argument is they killed in the name of the religion.  And/or truley believed what they were doing was right and justified by religion.

Just because communists were atheist, is irrelevent.<span id='postcolor'>

No. I'll explain, THE FACT THEY KILL IN THE NAME OF SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN THEY REPRESENT IT.

Christianity is what we are debating not someone's warped version of it.

[Longinius 1]

"No. I'll explain, THE FACT THEY KILL IN THE NAME OF SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN THEY REPRESENT IT.

Christianity is what we are debating not someone's warped version of it."

But they DO represent it. The crusades were lead and sponsored by the Christian church. The Inquisition was also a part of the recognised church. As were those that prosecuted witches in northern Europe. Christianity, its priests and its followers are responsible for many acts of pure evil in this world. That cannot be denied, it is a fact no matter how much YOU chose to ignore it.

Evil has been done in the name of Christianity, by Christians.

Evil has also been done by Christians against other Christians, and heretics, without using God as an excuse.

Religion in itself is rarely evil. The bible isn't evil, but it tells of a violent past. The bible is filled with death done in the name of God. So is our history, both modern and ancient. So say whatever you like, it doesnt change the fact that the Christian religion has blood on its hands, and lots of it.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

A true Christian loves others. Not everybody who says I do this in the name of the Lord means it or knows what they are saying. Satan tricks people, and he can mess with them. Thats why Jesus is there, to accept him and have power over satan and to be granted eternal life. Nobody is perfect, not even a Christian, but with Jesus all can be forgiven. You do not see islamic people on here trying to get you to covert too islam, nor do you see any buddists. I want yall to accept to Christianity, not a certain church, not to any one person, but to God Himself.

[Paratrooper 0]

"Go play amoungst yourselves" -Charles I

[Guest]

I think a fact that is being overlooked here is how OFP relates to this. The game offers something for the believers:

And something for the ones that do not like the church very much:

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Denoir, that is not even funny. Not becuase I am offended so much but becuase of how disturbiing and odd it is.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 10 2002,02:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, that is not even funny. Not becuase I am offended so much but becuase of how disturbiing and odd it is.<span id='postcolor'>

I find it much less disturbing then for instance your statement that God ordered the Jews to kill the Arabs... but then again, maybe it is just me.

[advocatexxx 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Beverage @ July 09 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RELIGION THE SOURCE OF ALL EVIL<span id='postcolor'>

I thought it was money. Oh wait, religion is about money... well that makes perfect sense now.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

But that was God who ordered the JEws to kill them becuase of not believeing in Him.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 09 2002,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, that is not even funny. Not becuase I am offended so much but becuase of how disturbiing and odd it is.<span id='postcolor'>

LMAO Oh, its all too funny! Bra-Vo, Denoir!!!

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 10 2002,05:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But that was God who ordered the JEws to kill them becuase of not believeing in Him.<span id='postcolor'>

Er that's just not the case, where is this in the Bible?

[Oligo 1]

Funnily, there is an old finnish saying: "Lukee kuin piru raamattua." That translates roughly as "To read like the devil reads the bible." The inherent message of this saying is that you should not take anything you read TOO literally, like the devil would of course do when reading the bible and searching for loopholes. I fear that taking the bible too literally is not a good thing as proven by Jack Chick's nice page.

[Aculaud 0]

taking the bible too literally is not a good thing as proven by every single fundamentalist christian iv ever talked to

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Have you ever tried arguing with a brick wall (or Rush Limbaugh-same difference)? You can present any argument you want, no matter what, and it will refuse to be convinced, because it is made of bricks (Or in Rush's case, bullshit). Eventually, you will get frustrated, and may even attempt to assault the brick wall, perhaps with your fists, but it doesnt do any good, because once again, its made of brick, and brick is harder than your hands. So basically, you cant win- in fact, the only satisfaction you can get from the whole experience is that your bloodstains completely throw off the walls color scheme.

Can you see where this is going?

And Denoir, soon I too shall have Resistance, and then all will be in place for the final act... [evil]muahahahahahaha![/evil]

[ale2999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 09 2002,21:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"No. I'll explain, THE FACT THEY KILL IN THE NAME OF SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN THEY REPRESENT IT.

Christianity is what we are debating not someone's warped version of it."

But they DO represent it. The crusades were lead and sponsored by the Christian church. The Inquisition was also a part of the recognised church. As were those that prosecuted witches in northern Europe. Christianity, its priests and its followers are responsible for many acts of pure evil in this world. That cannot be denied, it is a fact no matter how much YOU chose to ignore it.

Evil has been done in the name of Christianity, by Christians.

Evil has also been done by Christians against other Christians, and heretics, without using God as an excuse.

Religion in itself is rarely evil. The bible isn't evil, but it tells of a violent past. The bible is filled with death done in the name of God. So is our history, both modern and ancient. So say whatever you like, it doesnt change the fact that the Christian religion has blood on its hands, and lots of it.<span id='postcolor'>

ok, I was posting someting about this yesterday but I guess that I crashed and forgot. When I said Christianity and religion are not the same thing, it is in the sense that religion nowaday is not someting personal as it should be (christian is who accept Christ as his/her personal saviour in their life), but it has become an institution with many branches (movements). Religious has been "warped" by people for their interest since the middle ages to take advantage of the poor people. Well in those days the only Christian religious institution was  the Catholic church. They were controlling every religious aspect (only priest add bibles) so the population believed them blindly, (crusades, indulgence, persecution of whichcraft etc). If u want to know why is because even thoe Christianity it is divine, it is carried on by HUMANS that commit mistakes and are sinner. They were so out of hand that some1 decide to stand up, Martin Luther (not martin luter king) who made the 95 thesis and posted them in front of the church. In a few words all those said that all christians are at same level and that no1 is leader, and that every1 is entitled to pray to God directly and every has a right to own a bible and read it (b4 they were not allowed, so ppl could be kept in the dark without knowing the truth). After Martin Luther more and more people started speakng and there, the reformism started

still after that people kept interpreting the bible differently and thats why there is so many of "christian" religion. Some1 could be calling himself Christian according to himself but not to some1 else. I follow the bible and if ppl in my movement (pentecostal) does sometin contradicting the bible I'd speak up because there lies the truth and I wouldnt listen to a warped truth. So when u blame priest and people u must understand that even thoe we all call ourself christians, we mostly have different and radically different point of views, we r not all the same. If a christian does sometin wrong it doesnt mean that Christianity is all wrong. the point I wrote is hard to understand probably if u didnt take any history course and its l8 here so my grammar is all in the sky  .

[Guest]

While, I'm an atheist myself, I agree with you entirely ale. Religion has been misused to gain political power many times.

The problem with Luther however is the same. His ideas were very sound but were very quickly used by those in power to make the church come under the control of the state. Luther himself was partially for to blame for this since he sought protection from the Vatican and got help from local German princes. In return for their help he was willing to support their wishes that the religion should be under control of the state. By this IMO, he destroyed something that was a good idea from the start.

[Longinius 1]

I thought Christianity was the organised worship of God. You know, building churches and such in his glory. If so, any actions taken by such an organisation is done for Him.

Twist it any way you wish, but like I said, Christianity is responsible for many evil things.

Its interesting to note however that you seem to say that organised Christianity is fake... Not real Christianity since it is responsible for all those actions we have mentioned time and time again on the forum.

[Oligo 1]

One drawback caused by the overt reliance on bible by "real" christians is the stagnation of moral evolution. This causes real harm, for example christians here in Finland furiously oppose any "relationship registration" rights for homosexuals. Luckily a majority of people was enlightened enough not to let some book hinder their moral judgement and the relationship registration law was passed. I mean, whom do the homosexuals harm? What the hell does it matter if they can get married?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 10 2002,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The problem with Luther however is the same. His ideas were very sound but were very quickly used by those in power to make the church come under the control of the state. Luther himself was partially for to blame for this since he sought protection from the Vatican and got help from local German princes. In return for their help he was willing to support their wishes that the religion should be under control of the state. By this IMO, he destroyed something that was a good idea from the start.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL, I covered that back on page... 58 I think it was?

[ale2999 0]

well dear Longinius as I said b4 christianity is not about building churches and meeting togethere every sunday just cuz. Christianity is follow Christ steps and accpeting Him in our hearts. all the atrocities that have been commited in name of christianity were comitted mostly when there was only 1, the roman catholic church, but today its different. And still it is not christianity that perpetreted those atrocities, it was human beings. saying that christianity did is as saying That the Lord Jesus did those, and that its not the truth. As denoir said ppl used religion solely as an excuse to commit those atrocities. for example do u know that Hitler was a "Christian" He was part of Arianism (that is suppose to be a Christian movement) and it professed about the superiority of 1 "race" well nazist did atrocities and considered themselves christians but I dont and I bet u that many in those days didnt. The ppl that drop the A bomb on nagasaki and hiroshima were probably Christians thus u cant blame christianity for all the deads. (this were just 2 examples). Denoir what u say its right, he started sometin good but then he fell in the same mistakes as the catholic church kinda. But as more time it passed, more good came up, the movement I am in that I know is not more than 100 years old. U dont see as many atrocities commited in name of Christianity 2day as in the past.and wel I bet that anyhow atrocities in the name of Christianity will be commited until the Lord Jesus comes back. Just cuz they do sometin in name of christianity, it doesnt mean that, such is the will of christianity. I am going to bed now, but I will reply tmr to other msgs

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

Long live Unitarians!

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Er that's just not the case, where is this in the Bible?<span id='postcolor'>

Old Testament, the battle of Jiricho and sorts. I have not read the whole Bible, but I am working on it. I was saved about 2 years ago, at a Power Team show. It was really great how all the Churches in the area came togather to help out and alot of people where saved from the gates of hell those days. I wish all of you could have been there. Homosexuality is wrong, there are no two ways about it. It is sadhow they have thos Churches specifically for homosexuals, might as well be called sin church, an oxymoron that is all to comon. I am not saying I am better than any body, cuase I aint, but the allowence of homosexual marriages is not a good thing for a church. I live in the the "Bible Belt" and I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church, and even some southern Baptist churches are falling away from the word of God, and yes take the word of God litteraly!!!!

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 10 2002,17:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Er that's just not the case, where is this in the Bible?<span id='postcolor'>

Old Testament, the battle of Jiricho and sorts. I have not read the whole Bible, but I am working on it. I was saved about 2 years ago, at a Power Team show. It was really great how all the Churches in the area came togather to help out and alot of people where saved from the gates of hell those days. I wish all of you could have been there. Homosexuality is wrong, there are no two ways about it. It is sadhow they have thos Churches specifically for homosexuals, might as well be called sin church, an oxymoron that is all to comon. I am not saying I am better than any body, cuase I aint, but the allowence of homosexual marriages is not a good thing for a church. I live in the the "Bible Belt" and I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church, and even some southern Baptist churches are falling away from the word of God, and yes take the word of God litteraly!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

I suggest you read it again. The Arabs were invaders to the Middle East and North Africa about a thousand years later.

The problem with taking the Bible literally is that it ISN'T the word of God. It is the words of men. God did not write the Bible!

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

God wrote the Qaran.

Or so I've been told.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Uhhh and where do you get the info that God didn't right the Bible? God wrote the Bible through men. The Isrealites went to the land of the Canniantes and all of those, and that is where this happend, I do believe,like the battle of Jericho.