Takeoff trim suicide skid flip

[coolts 0]

I’ve been practicing in both the training tutorials and the first career mission and am finding take-offs very very hard to control.

In expert mode, using a TM Warthog, (all calibrated in windows, etc.).

On adding collective the helo skids backwards then flips over on the right.

Ok then.....

I add 3 taps of FWD trim and 2 taps of LEFT trim.

That’s a bit better but still all over the place.

Now as a DCS:Black Shark vet, I know about take-off trim, etc., but this seems very very wild.( and the HOTAS is fine in BMS, ROF, A-10, CloD)

If I engage auto hover I can take-off but that seems to defeat the purpose.

I know this is an initial unpatched release but I want to know..

...am I doing something wrong here? :confused:

[4 IN 1 0]

There is still some problem bugging the FDM, hopefully BI can fix it in secound patch

[coolts 0]

Aha. Thats fine then. I was re-installing Black Shark to determine whether i have just lost my helo-mojo completely!

Thanks.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

the trim system helps relieve pressure on the stick but doesn't mean it'll fly the helicopter for you. you still have to predict the how the helicopter will move by being light on the skid first if you're inexperienced.

once you see how the heli wants to move then use your joystick to counter that movement by holding it slightly forward and to the left or whatever, you might also need the appropriate pedal input. then slowly increase collective to gently raise yourself up and counter any movement with small, smooth but deliberate inputs.

if you're trying to fly these helos like you do blackshark then that's your error because different helicopters have a different feel even though the basic behaviors are the same but not always.

for example the blackshark probably weighs twice if not three times more than the md500 so it's bound to be a little less twitchy, plus these helos have skids and the blackshark has wheels, it also has a coaxial rotor system which non of the helos in this game has. also keep in mind it's a different game and the flight dynamics aren't quite on par with blackshark.

[coolts 0]

I know how trim works and will keep practicing.

I didn't take the weight differnece into account but even the medium choppers skid & flip quickly. I will try a heavy later.

Cheers

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

oh, have you remove the deadzones from your joystick in game? because on default there's like a 15% deadzone for all axis.

[beepee 10]

Also in BS autopilot helps to keep helo stright and level, while i ToH there is no autopilot.

[coolts 0]

Do you guys trim before takeoff then?

or trim as soon as you take the weight off the skids and it starts moving?

or do you just hold it with the cyclic and trim once you are in a hover?

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

i only use trim on take off for the medium helicopter. the light helicopter is very predictable and easy to control. usually slight forward stick and slight less cyclic but i have found that foward cyclic is not always neccessary.

[coolts 0]

do you bother before takeoff?

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

yes i set my trim before take off

[beepee 10]

I don't use trim at all. But i've removed centering spring from my joystick so holding it leaned doesn't tire my hand.

[TAW_RiEvEr 10]

I don't trim for take-off and only had this 'flipping' problem when my joystick was not being read correctly.

I chose a different joystick profile (think I went with the Cyborg) and suddenly the control was perfect.

The actual drivers for my own joystick 'break' FSX for some reason so I can't use them :)

[coolts 0]

I don't trim for take-off and only had this 'flipping' problem when my joystick was not being read correctly.

I chose a different joystick profile (think I went with the Cyborg) and suddenly the control was perfect.

The actual drivers for my own joystick 'break' FSX for some reason so I can't use them :)

hmmmm. i wil try this. for some reason the helo will lose lift and crash in to the sea in the same spot in the 1st mission, just after circling the blokes yacht.

[beepee 10]

That crash is a part of campaign :) It's scripted.

[coolts 0]

you are kidding me? Im not talking about the unexplained older brother crash here.

[beepee 10]

Ah ok, I was talking about Joe's crash.

[liquidpinky 11]

Aha. Thats fine then. I was re-installing Black Shark to determine whether i have just lost my helo-mojo completely!

Thanks.

Black Shark is a co-axial, totally different take off experience than the helis with tail rotors in Take On.

[coolts 0]

I know, but rocketing backwards and immediately flipping over does not sound like normal untrimmed helo behaviour either IMO. I will practice more over the next few days.

The fact that they are working on the advanced FM for the patch tells me things will change subtly.

[bobocz 10]

I know, but rocketing backwards and immediately flipping over does not sound like normal untrimmed helo behaviour either IMO. I will practice more over the next few days.

You really need more practice, maybe even week is not enough for expert settings ;).

I get used to difficulty flight model, I don't want to BIS make it too easy. Make it realistic is OK, but not too easy :p. But I'm not pilot, I don't want comment FM, I only enjoy present one (except descend rate ;))

Edited November 4, 2011 by BoboCZ

[scarp 10]

A quick & dirty workround for the light helicopter:

First, make sure no trim has been applied (by pressing release trim) and then, if you trim the MD500 about 4-5 clicks to the left (I have assigned a cooliehat for trimming all axis and one button for trim release.), you'll have a more trimmed helicopter when taking off.

I haven't tested the other models yet in terms of "how much trim" is needed.

Also, it is still a helicopter and you still need to fly it, but it wont keel over that easily anymore :)

[RUBIX 10]

coolts,

What difficulty are you using? I started with the expert, and everything responded normally. I then chose to go with trainee in order to get "HUD info waypoints permanently" while flying. But as soon as I went there, the helicopter was near uncontrollable during takeoff. I was baffled, but then I realized that the Trainee mode had Auto-trim turned on. After I disabled Auto-trim, I was back in action.

I would love to fly on expert mode, but some missions are stressful when you don't have the situational awareness of actually being in the helicopter; I found the permanent waypoints a good way to add situational awareness.

RUBIX

p.s. I don't use manual trim for takeoff. Only use manual trim for long legs of flying.

[jedra 11]

I would love to fly on expert mode, but some missions are stressful when you don't have the situational awareness of actually being in the helicopter; I found the permanent waypoints a good way to add situational awareness.

You can edit the difficulty settings in Game Options/Difficulty/Edit (in the bottom right). So, you can have all the features of expert mode with the permanent HUD stuff enabled.

I cannot take off at all without auto-trim. Even with some manual trimming the light chopper is suddenly hurtling around in circles backwards at 30 knotts immediately it leaves the ground. Even if by some miracle I don't crash there is nothing I can do to get it out of the spin.

[coolts 0]

On Expert mode. Its just figuring what is proper "takeoff trim" thats all. I expect a certain amount of "squirrely-ish-ness" on takeoff.

I cannot take off at all without auto-trim. Even with some manual trimming the light chopper is suddenly hurtling around in circles backwards at 30 knotts immediately it leaves the ground. Even if by some miracle I don't crash there is nothing I can do to get it out of the spin.

Heh. it's not just me being special then! I didnt know there was an auto trim ;)

I might use that till they sort out the advanced FM in the next patch.....

"Patch 2

A larger update in which we also aim to do tweaks to the flight model, based on feedback"

Edited November 7, 2011 by coolts

[armored_sheep 56]

Game also simulates wind, so dont expect that each take off / landing will be the same.