Help on landing

[docehrenhoefer 10]

hm, laggin´... did you check your deadzones? they must be kept very low. Though, the overall effect depends on the joystick used.

I own a Saitek x-52, a Logitech G940 and a TM Warthog. The Saitek is very good for small adjustments, but I tends not to be steady in higher speed or normal transition flights.

The Logitech G940 is a total catastrophe if you want to make very small moves, and the counteractions of the force feedback motors destroy every careful movement. Had the same problem with refueling in DCS A10C. Well, I still use the pedals.

The Warthog is the most expensive but best joystick I ever had. He has a very small center postion, so you can almost null the deadzone, with y-axis adjustments in the middle zone it´s almost like using the autohover. Well, almost.

[DenisFerrari 10]

Hi,

this is a very crude drawing of the joystick sensitivity adjustment I did under controllers in the options menu. I am at work right now, so I could not make a screenshot, sorry.

What is important - I think - I use a TM Warthog as a stick.

Greets

...so , in your stick is X lateral cyclic and Y fwb/back cyclic?

Apologize my doubt:confused:

[docehrenhoefer 10]

No apologies please. X is steerboard/starboard cyclic, y is up/down, y up is nose down, y down is nose up.

As finetuning speed is much more difficult than fintuning lateral movement, I decided just to modify cyclic fwd/bckwd.

[DenisFerrari 10]

Excellent, thank you:icon14:

Denis

[jedra 11]

My Dad sent me his G940 stick/throttle/peddles which he used before getting his pilot's license and I managed to get it into a comfortable enough position to use.

I have to say, it has made life a lot easier especially following some of the tweaks suggested by DenisFerrari (thanks by the way!). I can now get quite near the landing pad while landing and can usually successfully recover from a botched attempt. Having the collective on a 'slider' makes life a lot easier.

I still get occaisional swings (not banks) to the right or left (as if I was applying full rudder, which I am not). It usually happens when I am at or near zero speed. The chopper will swing left or right, the nose will dip and I am suddenly travelling 30 knotts 90 degrees from where I was pointing last. I can't seem to recover when it starts to happen - applying rudder to counter it doesn't work for example (although bringing the nose back up slows the acceleration). Anyone know what this effect is? Is it some kind of stall?

[eagledeer 10]

MFD500, if you have the time, inclination, and tools, could you make a TOH video of an approach and landing the mimics the RW vid in your first post?

[Bluehammer 10]

I get the same problem Jedra. I have no idea why it's happening but it feels like the tail rotor suddenly kicks out and drops the nose. Thankfully it doesn't happen to me very often.

Thanks to all the good advice in this thread I've finally managed to do the landing tutorials! yay me :)

However, I'm now having a real problem with the Sling Load tutorial. I'm finding it so hard to stay stable at such a low altitude. If I drop below 3m I suffer from the bouncy castle ground effect, but going over 10m and the tutorial fails. Coupled with the helicopters preference to go backwards on take-off it's proving to be a very frustrating task. Still, it'd be no fun without a bit of a challenge :)

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

MFD500, if you have the time, inclination, and tools, could you make a TOH video of an approach and landing the mimics the RW vid in your first post?

yes i'll make a vid for you guys right now for a normal landing approach to touch down.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

ok here's the light helicopter version of normal approach to landing.

and here's the medium helicopter version

Edited November 4, 2011 by MD500Enthusiast

[eagledeer 10]

..:ok:..

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

hope this help you guys learning the approach angle, you'll need it once vortex ring state is implemented.

[jedra 11]

ok here's the light helicopter version of normal approach to landing.

and here's the medium helicopter version

That's brilliant - I will take a better look later. The landing in the light was as smooth as butter! You have good control over that helo - I hardly saw the nose rising as you were reducing speed.

Were you slowly reducing collective on the decent? Also, you seemed to get no turbulance on the touchdown. Were you compensating for this, or was the approach angle such that no turnulance was created. My attempts at landing always seem to be way steeper than that and I hit a big cushion as I am about to hit land.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

i reduce and add collective as neccessary to keep on glide path (lining up the landing zone with the imaginary line on cannopy). you don't want to nose up too much when you've established your approach angle because you want to be smooth in your approach. howver if you're coming in too fast and you've got some distance between you and the landing spot you can a flare with collective full down or as much as you need to lower it. you can nose up a bit more during the last few seconds to shed the airspeed and come to a hover. when you get more proficient with your landing approach you can do it more aggressively, in real life people call it cowboy approach because it doesn't leave much room for error. basically you going down with a lot of foward airspeed and do an aggressive flare at the end.

when you say turbulence i think you mean drift, yaw and roll? yes i had to compensate for it.

it also helps to approach the landing spot a little higher than normal hover and lower yourself slowly, i did get the slight bouncing up but i corrected for it immediately by lowering collective a bit.

you land steep because you're not controlling your approach speed and descend angles properly. look where the landing zone is on my cannopy and how i keep it there by reduce airspeed slowly and dropping collective to get the right amount of descend rate. also the slower you become the more collective you'll need to keep that sight picture.

Edited November 4, 2011 by MD500Enthusiast

[Bluehammer 10]

Excellent video MD500. I'm pleasantly surprised that my angle of descent isn't a million miles away from yours, although it looks like I lose height too quickly as I get close to ground a few metres out and then having to creep forward which is when I get most of my control problems.

Would it be possible to get the same video but with the HUD showing, so we can get a clearer view of your airspeed, altitude changes, etc?

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

hmmmm i could try but it is very distracting for me to fly with those hud gauges lol.

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

Excellent video MD500. I'm pleasantly surprised that my angle of descent isn't a million miles away from yours, although it looks like I lose height too quickly as I get close to ground a few metres out and then having to creep forward which is when I get most of my control problems.

Would it be possible to get the same video but with the HUD showing, so we can get a clearer view of your airspeed, altitude changes, etc?

here it is

[Bluehammer 10]

You sir, are a total and utter star!

"hmmmm i could try but it is very distracting for me to fly with those hud gauges lol." He says and then lands dead centre on a crowded landing pad :rolleyes:

Thanks for taking the time to do the video MD, really appreciate it.

[eagledeer 10]

Thanks for posting MD500. In general, do you find it better to make the joystick response more sensitive or less?

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

thanks for the compliment, glad to help =D.

my sensitivity is on default value, 50,50 for x,y axis. but i do use the saitek x65f so it's quite a different feel than other more conventional joysticks.

[jedra 11]

@MD500Enthusiast - You are a good man sir! You make this look very easy, but it is extremely helpful. It's exactly what was needed as a landing demo.

Maybe by the end of today I will be landing without my passengers screaming and Fire Crews on alert.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

looking at videos gives you an idea of what you need to do but to have someone in the cockpit with you giving you instructions helps a lot more. i'm sure there are some real life helo pilots in these forums that are willing to spend some of their time doing in cockpit trainings. if you ever see me in multiplayer or want to schedule a session let me know.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I should make a video of a sky ninja landing, with style points! :D

but its more entertaining than educational...

[jedra 11]

This has got to be one of the hardest things I have done in my 42.4 years on this earth! I have spent over seven hours today trying to replicate that example landing. I just can't keep the chopper stable enough. I think I may have to give up and concentrate on addons and mission making instead.

For now I am deflated. Got to take one of my daughters out tomorrow to buy a new toy as she has been very good at school lately. Perhaps that will cheer me up enough to have another go tomorrow!

[scarp 10]

Dont worry Jedra, if you put in that much work already, and really felt it afterwards (as in deflated), then rest assure you already have learned a ton but you just haven't realized it yet. But you will the next time you fly. I think all us RL pilots can attest to the feeling you have, we've all been there and there is no way around it either he he, so keep up the spirit and you'll do just fine :)

In the end, it is about focus & calmness. The most common error a studen pilot does, is over reacting (over-controlling) , partially because the student is all tensed up. So when you feel like 'everythings going haywire' say to yourself 'relax' and then just do it....relax! Get intune with the machine :) Also, dont try and squeeze the life out of the joystick handle, it'll just F-up your 'feeling' in addition to make your arm and neck stiffen up quite a bit. I also very much remember the mental fatigue back in the student days. When you're sitting all day fully concentrated for long hours, that really takes a toll on you both physically and mentally. But boy do you sleep well at night tho :D

So if you're new at this, just relax, it's part of the game (blame BIS for that ;) ) and you should actually feel that you did accomplish something rather than just pure frustration...coz you most likely did :)

Edited November 5, 2011 by scarp

[LeftSkidLow 1]

Just hold on loosely,

but don't let go

If you cling too tightly,

You're gonna lose control.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

This has got to be one of the hardest things I have done in my 42.4 years on this earth! I have spent over seven hours today trying to replicate that example landing. I just can't keep the chopper stable enough. I think I may have to give up and concentrate on addons and mission making instead.

For now I am deflated. Got to take one of my daughters out tomorrow to buy a new toy as she has been very good at school lately. Perhaps that will cheer me up enough to have another go tomorrow!

I feel for ya, but don't give up. Took me close to 10 hours of inflight training to actually nail it consistantly. My instructor told me that landing approaches are one of if not the hardest maneuver to learn as a helicopter pilot. So hang in there and like the others have said RELAX and keep trying. Don't try to replicate the video just yet, just practice your slow speed flight at first, as you get more comfortable go slower and slower until you're hovering. Like i said after i posted the video, it helps a lot more to have someone in multiplayer sitting in the copilot seat watching you fly and giving you instruction and feedback.