Flight dynamics (important issues)

[sickboy 13]

Sometimes reading the replies I do wonder if there is not more to it than just the FM.

E.g low fps / lag, Joystick issues (hardware, software (drivers / game) etc), etc.

Both can pretty much influence the experience, and FPS is fluctuating too...

I think I read that below 30 fps the FM is compromised, can anyone confirm?

Then there's famous Input lag due to renderFramesAhead, and TrippleBuffering etc?

Not saying there are no issues with FM, but just that there are more factors..

[Silverfox02 1]

Having the help/advice of real helicopter pilots in relation to the FM is the way to go, this game has so much potential, there are so few helicopter games out there! Having both civil and military helicopter missions in one game is a master stroke by BI but IMO there has to be far more variety of civil missions in the career mode.

As for being a game or simulator, this game can be everything to everyone, it's just down to the difficulty levels being offered, beginer level (game) expert level (simulator), in which case you cover all bases and have far more sales!

[nightsta1ker 10]

Sometimes reading the replies I do wonder if there is not more to it than just the FM.

E.g low fps / lag, Joystick issues (hardware, software (drivers / game) etc), etc.

Both can pretty much influence the experience, and FPS is fluctuating too...

I think I read that below 30 fps the FM is compromised, can anyone confirm?

Then there's famous Input lag due to renderFramesAhead, and TrippleBuffering etc?

Not saying there are no issues with FM, but just that there are more factors..

I'm not rich, but I was due for an upgrade and so I bought pretty much all new hardware shortly after buying this game. I followed all of the recommendations on the graphics settings thread and I am getting very good performance from the game. I still feel the FM is "wrong". Although, with all these tweaks, it's getting better.

I really don't think hardware and graphics are the issue. The more I look at the XML and play with things, the more I feel that all the right functions are there but with the wrong values in them. Adjusting numbers in key places is putting it closer and closer to feeling like the real thing. There is a thread on tweaking the .XML in the configs/scripting page and many of us have posted their tweaks in the spoiler at the bottom of the page. I'm still learning and messing around with it, but if at any point I feel I have a good overall .XML file done, I will post it here for everyone. I just don't feel we are quite at that point yet.

[ShaneD 1]

Hello, I'm also new to the whole flight simulator and forums.

I just recently purchased a new computer and flight sim controls. The flight sim controls i purchased was flight link from helicoptersonly. Hoping it would be more like the real thing.

I got to the point where all the functions except the twist grip throttle seem to be working. Although my main question is, what's up with the collective.

instructor says " bring the collective up slowly to get light on the skids." I tried bringing it up lightly and watching the torque, suddenly it hits a spot where i suddenly go shooting into the air like a rocket and fail all the challenges. Nor can i find a spot to hold a steady hover. Its either up full or down hard. I tinkered with the settings for collective but nothing seems to be working. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to have to use the auto hover...

Shane

[nightsta1ker 10]

Hello, I'm also new to the whole flight simulator and forums.

I just recently purchased a new computer and flight sim controls. The flight sim controls i purchased was flight link from helicoptersonly. Hoping it would be more like the real thing.

I got to the point where all the functions except the twist grip throttle seem to be working. Although my main question is, what's up with the collective.

instructor says " bring the collective up slowly to get light on the skids." I tried bringing it up lightly and watching the torque, suddenly it hits a spot where i suddenly go shooting into the air like a rocket and fail all the challenges. Nor can i find a spot to hold a steady hover. Its either up full or down hard. I tinkered with the settings for collective but nothing seems to be working. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to have to use the auto hover...

Shane

See MD500Enthusiast below

Edited November 19, 2011 by nightsta1ker

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

Hello, I'm also new to the whole flight simulator and forums.

I just recently purchased a new computer and flight sim controls. The flight sim controls i purchased was flight link from helicoptersonly. Hoping it would be more like the real thing.

I got to the point where all the functions except the twist grip throttle seem to be working. Although my main question is, what's up with the collective.

instructor says " bring the collective up slowly to get light on the skids." I tried bringing it up lightly and watching the torque, suddenly it hits a spot where i suddenly go shooting into the air like a rocket and fail all the challenges. Nor can i find a spot to hold a steady hover. Its either up full or down hard. I tinkered with the settings for collective but nothing seems to be working. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to have to use the auto hover...

Shane

make sure you have your collective put in as analog in where you map your keys.

[hon0 10]

Before start start the engine you should initialise all your axe.

[b101_uk 10]

Well I am still testing the light helicopter just dealing with the relationships of the different aspects “power†:rolleyes:

It seems with the standard “rotor†the settings of mass vs. power vs. ISA day = altitude, are holding out over a range of weights typically with less than +-50ft error :), though over >3200lb TOW there seems to be a slight error.

Climb rates @ 62kts seem to be hitting the marks (as best as i can fly in game)

The torque gauge is pushed around more by changes in flight aspect meaning transient torque is larger, likewise rotor head speed gets pushed up, also autorotation is easer (engine off).

Negative effects:

With the standard rotor settings, the controls are now more “soggyâ€, but I do know the default rates in the xml are low and some of the odd behaviour of the rotor will still be there, as I have just dealt with “power†etc.

With the medium/heavy helicopters are progressing, just getting things so OEI performance is right so things overlap without any excess of power in normal operation. ;)

One question, how do you like/want the torque gauge configured?

1: take-off power @ 90%, then >90% to <100% the transient torque zone\short term contingency power, then >100% damage starts to take place at a rate dependent on how much over >100% you are.

2: take-off power @ 100%, then >100% damage starts to take place at a rate dependent on how much over >100% you are,(any transient torque above 100% would cause damage & in game it would be hard to get take-off power)

[nightsta1ker 10]

One question, how do you like/want the torque gauge configured?

1: take-off power @ 90%, then >90% to <100% the transient torque zone\short term contingency power, then >100% damage starts to take place at a rate dependent on how much over >100% you are.

2: take-off power @ 100%, then >100% damage starts to take place at a rate dependent on how much over >100% you are,(any transient torque above 100% would cause damage & in game it would be hard to get take-off power)

Not sure I understand what you are asking. Could you please elaborate? Sorry, I can be a bit dense sometimes :D

[b101_uk 10]

Well here is some files for the light heli, they are just dealing with power etc and have comments in and a readme in the .zip, including some for bits I have not altered just so it’s more apparent the changes in settings that have been made.

Have also found a problem with how torque gauges are working.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8hhk4lalaenlp08/TKoH_light_heli_power_test_1.zip

[armored_sheep 56]

Light helicopter was designed to fly with performance close to MD530F (the training helicopter can be MD500D)

[jedra 11]

Well here is some files for the light heli, they are just dealing with power etc and have comments in and a readme in the .zip, including some for bits I have not altered just so it’s more apparent the changes in settings that have been made.

Have also found a problem with how torque gauges are working.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8hhk4lalaenlp08/TKoH_light_heli_power_test_1.zip

I had a quick hour with this today and I have to say that it is really nice to fly. It seems very stable indeed and relatively easy to achieve a hover immediately after take off. The collective is not as 'quick' as with Nightsa1ker's FM - it seems to be more like the BI original model.

It also seems to have removed a lot of the sideways right spin I was experiencing before and I don't have to trim so much.

I can't say if it is realistic or not as I am not a pilot, but I do like it.

[b101_uk 10]

I had a quick hour with this today and I have to say that it is really nice to fly. It seems very stable indeed and relatively easy to achieve a hover immediately after take off. The collective is not as 'quick' as with Nightsa1ker's FM - it seems to be more like the BI original model.

It also seems to have removed a lot of the sideways right spin I was experiencing before and I don't have to trim so much.

I can't say if it is realistic or not as I am not a pilot, but I do like it.

The lack of spin is because torque is reduced so the tail rotor is now more/too effective because that are at their default excessive ranges as I was just dealing with “power†only and mechanical drivetrain settings, by putting in the proper tail rotor angles in (commented in the xml) torque become much more pronounced and changeable with power/speed/etc changes ;)

[samb 15]

As I already wrote on hc forums- Nightstalker's FM is great! Thank You NS!

[nightsta1ker 10]

I just flew b101_uk's file and I like certain aspects of it alot. I am going to combine some of my edits with his to see what it looks like. I think with his engine and gear ratio edits, and some of my flight control edits, this thing will be awesome!

[lazerath 10]

Nightstalker I sent you a Private message. Could you please respond to it (it was sent a week or two ago) and good job on everything guys! Looking forward to testing it out when I am feeling better!

[b101_uk 10]

I just flew b101_uk's file and I like certain aspects of it alot. I am going to combine some of my edits with his to see what it looks like. I think with his engine and gear ratio edits, and some of my flight control edits, this thing will be awesome!

If you do you will need to use my “config.bin†(binorized) with the engine/driveline/rpm/etc settings that were in my xml, or the torque gauge “take-off power†point will be off and you will get to much power at sea level without penalty with the default config.bin.

FYI: with my settings 90% torque on the gauge is 375hp (take-off), 100% is 412.5hp (transient or transitional torque\contingency power limit, i.e. take-off + 10%) and above 100% damage starts, ~84% on the torque gauge would be max continuous power (~350HP)

Real life:

Take-off power (5min) 375hp (87.2psi on the real torque gauge vs. 90% in TKoH)

Continuous power 350hp (81.3psi on the real torque gauge vs. ~84% in TKoH)

Transient\ transitional\etc torque limit (~412.5hp) (97.2psi on the real torque gauge vs. 100% in TKoH)

The torque gauge 100% point is set in the config.bin, as is fuel capacity and fuel use rate and engine start up times, the fuel capacity (242L volume) is correct by default, I have changed the use rate from the default value which represented fuel use at maximum take-off power/hover/slow flight/at MTOW type flight profile to a point midway between real life minimum and maximum fuel burn rates >20kts, by default endurance was ~1.82h but now ~2.23h (real life Max Endurance ~2.75h, min ~1.5h)

Fuel burn rate:

L volume / time in sec = fuel rate.

e.g.

(1hour = 3600sec)

242L volume / 9000sec (2.5h) = 0.0268888888888889

Going the other way

242L volume / 0.0268888888888889 = 9000sec (2.5h)

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I appreciate the cooperative effort by all to modify the XML for the better.

however...

3% difference on a gauge or perfect fuel use appears a wasted effort, imo.

The Developers never claimed to replicate real life helicopters, I believe artistic license is in effect.

[4 IN 1 0]

Well, the point is to recreat the true performance of their real life countet part and which will both makes people who care very happy while saving BI lots of trouble from law suits and stuff. with that said we still need someone to port ARMA 1/OA MH6 model into TakOH and tweak it to fit MD500/530F size and shape.

Edited November 22, 2011 by 4 IN 1

[eagledeer 10]

I just flew b101_uk's file and I like certain aspects of it alot. I am going to combine some of my edits with his to see what it looks like. I think with his engine and gear ratio edits, and some of my flight control edits, this thing will be awesome!

Thanks! Can you please post the latest file in it's own thread?

[nightsta1ker 10]

Thanks! Can you please post the latest file in it's own thread?

I plan to.

[Isaac 10]

Nice!

[jedra 11]

This is a more general question and something I have noticed while trying the various flight models...

I have noticed that when I apply collective, it causes the helicopter to spin to the right, and when I reduce collective it causes the helicopter to spin to the left. The effect varies slightly between stock, nightsta1lker's and B101's models but it is there throughout. At first I thought I must have accidentally double-mapped an axis to the rudder control (because it is quite pronounced), but this isn't the case.

Is this the expected behaviour of the flightmodel? Also is this something you would experience as a real pilot?

[beepee 10]

Yes it is normal because if you apply more collective then governor increases engine rpm to maintain constant rotor rpm, this causes more torque and spins helicopter to the side. You need to apply some anti torque pedals to counter this effect. I hope I didn't make any mistake in explaining this ;)

Edited November 23, 2011 by BeePee

[Panther353 10]

Jedra,

This is normal behavior. Helicopters are naturally unstable beasts and you are always on the controls. The Rotorcraft Flying Handbook is a great place to get a basic understanding of helicopter flight dynamics.

Regards,

Chris