BI bad with numbers?

[Mansle 10]

Hi, I'm new here, and I've gotten one of my ArmA kicks again after I found out Arma 3 is being developed, so I decided to finally make a profile. Anyways, I was looking on the website and I found this quote about Limnos:

"The most inhabited and developed areas can be found on the South-West of the island. The current population (excluding military personel) is partially scattered amongst the isolated farms and villages, estimated to be approximately 2,000."

At the same time I have heard or read somewhere I can't remember that there will be 50 villages, there will be farms etc. Simple math: 2000/50 leaves us with an average of 40 civilians per village, which is way too little considering that some of these places will be big, and if we have to take farmers into account as well thats more like civilians 30 per village, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know that people probably wont care much (at all) about this kinda stuff, but to me a somewhat believeable environment and background is important when playing campaings in games like Arma, that focus a great deal on realism, so I humbly suggest BI to add another zero to the population.

Also, very sorry if this has been posted/adressed before, don't mean to bother anybody.

[Tonmeister 14]

considering there are no children on the island i expect an aging populace. But in all honesty, you could easily populate the island with more... alot more civilian life.

cheers

[rye1 21]

And then. Server crash. Low FPS. Stuttering. We tried it with the MSO. Don't know if BIS could do it properly with a better netcode.

[AstroMan 10]

"The current population." Right there.

[metalcraze 290]

Lore (and common sense) says that many people left the island because it's a warzone.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well, Morton, which consisted of a couple of houses, a bar, a church and a barn supposedly had 10 000 people living in that town, which felt rather odd. I guess BI finally decided that they adjusted to population to a believable level compared to the amount of houses ingame. :p

[Cripsis 10]

I have heard or read somewhere I can't remember that there will be 50 villages, there will be farms etc. Simple math: 2000/50 leaves us with an average of 40 civilians per village, which is way too little considering that some of these places will be big, and if we have to take farmers into account as well thats more like civilians 30 per village, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's immaterial so far as gameplay is concerned, but just for the sake of authenticity your totally right.

[Tonci87 163]

Guys its a warzone, many people have left the island

[CyclonicTuna 87]

Hi, I'm new here, and I've gotten one of my ArmA kicks again after I found out Arma 3 is being developed, so I decided to finally make a profile. Anyways, I was looking on the website and I found this quote about Limnos:

"The most inhabited and developed areas can be found on the South-West of the island. The current population (excluding military personel) is partially scattered amongst the isolated farms and villages, estimated to be approximately 2,000."

At the same time I have heard or read somewhere I can't remember that there will be 50 villages, there will be farms etc. Simple math: 2000/50 leaves us with an average of 40 civilians per village, which is way too little considering that some of these places will be big, and if we have to take farmers into account as well thats more like civilians 30 per village, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know that people probably wont care much (at all) about this kinda stuff, but to me a somewhat believeable environment and background is important when playing campaings in games like Arma, that focus a great deal on realism, so I humbly suggest BI to add another zero to the population.

Also, very sorry if this has been posted/adressed before, don't mean to bother anybody.

Well thats nice and all but you forgot one crucial thing...ITS WAR!! Its wartime in in southeast europe, small Islands with large strategic value will be mostly abandoned. I'm guessing that pretty much 40 out of the 50 villages will be abandoned with only the larger towns holding some remaining inhabitans.

[wolfbite 8]

You gotta remember the islands not full size either...

[Mansle 10]

And then. Server crash. Low FPS. Stuttering. We tried it with the MSO. Don't know if BIS could do it properly with a better netcode.

I'm not asking to have the game process civilians on the other side of the island when you're not there, just asking for civilians.

I'm guessing that pretty much 40 out of the 50 villages will be abandoned with only the larger towns holding some remaining inhabitans.

If that's the case I'm fine with it, I don't care if they make 1000 towns or 10 as long as there is an authentic connection between the background story and the world itself.

The thing is though:

Its wartime in in southeast europe, small Islands with large strategic value will be mostly abandoned.

As far as I could understand NATO, and certianly not civilians were supposed to know about the strategic value of this island. And the storyline also states that Miller is stationed deep behind enemy lines, so it wouldn't be a warzone anymore.

Again, I realize it does nothing to gameplay, I just have a wierd thing that I like stuff like population to somewhat match the amount of cities and stuff like that. It always annoyed me that Chernarus supposedly had millions of people living in it.

[mrcash2009 0]

I know that people probably wont care much (at all) about this kinda stuff, but to me a somewhat believeable environment and background is important when playing campaings in games like Arma, that focus a great deal on realism, so I humbly suggest BI to add another zero to the population.

This is a sandbox simulator dependent on PC limitations, so to have a campaign CPU cycled hogged by spawning local AI paths with civvies can only go so far.

I'm not asking to have the game process civilians on the other side of the island when you're not there, just asking for civilians.

Well in your OFP (quoted first) pretty much suggests this with large populations, how else would they exist in that amount without it being also where you are not? :)

If you mean player centric type spawning, depends on how BIS deal with it, dont much like war happening and then micro stutters becuase some civvies spawn around me just to get on the way of the war/task.

And if your just asking for civvies, well, that's just the balance that BIS must take on how many they unleash in the campaign, as you know you can have as much or little as you want to "drop into the map" but eye candy and the warfare cant be unbalanced, esp when it hits CPU.

Its not GTA with population requirements, its just down to back story, a bit of imagination and the mission makers balance of CPU requirements.

I can imagine much like the OA expansion you will get some scenic/FPS test scenarios like the OA one where you can walk around the busy Zargabad market, I can see one included to wander the busy hustle and bustle of Lemnos as a scenario, if not someone can make it, or you can :)

Edited October 25, 2011 by mrcash2009

[celery 8]

It always annoyed me that Chernarus supposedly had millions of people living in it.

The Chernarus we have in the game is the very northeasternmost corner of a bigger country. Don't know where you got the millions from.

[purepassion 22]

Your area of operation is the island of Limnos, once an important Greek air force base in the Mediterranean, now a remote hostile territory deep behind enemy lines. Still partially inhabited by a fraction of the original Greek populace and refugees from the Eastern Mediterranean, the island bears many scars from the fierce battles between NATO and the invading Iranian troops in 2025. The large airfield and the adjacent military base now serves as a basis for a fairly large Iranian force servicing the objective Omega.

Most of the formerly inhabited areas are currently unpopulated; highest population density can be found in the vicinity of Myrina and along the Southwestern coast.

+ much more reference to why the number is so low....

Next to that, 2000 is only a theoretical number. You wont see 2000 civilians ingame on the island. Its just some numbers the team came up with when designing the story and homepage.

Might clear things up a little bit ;)

Edited October 25, 2011 by PurePassion

[mrcash2009 0]

Can you imagine if it was taken literally, every bran new rig out when Arma3 lands up in arms becuase they get 0.25 steady FPS & BOSD :) Slaughtering civilians on mass to raise FPS, all missions named "Collateral FPS damage".

So as regards the thread title, is BI bad with numbers? The answer is ..... "No" :)

Edited October 25, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Maio 293]

Add nukes to the list and you get sparse population.

Oh yeah and a Iranian weapons test range.

[Mansle 10]

This is a sandbox simulator dependent on PC limitations, so to have a campaign CPU cycled hogged by spawning local AI paths with civvies can only go so far.

Well in your OFP (quoted first) pretty much suggests this with large populations, how else would they exist in that amount without it being also where you are not? :)

Fair point, actually I just realized that all buildings are enterable and destructable, so having every building inhabited could be a problem in terms of gameplay.

Anyway, I never asked for 20k people to be taken literary and actually be shown, I just asked for a change in the background to make it more authentic.

The Chernarus we have in the game is the very northeasternmost corner of a bigger country. Don't know where you got the millions from.

First mission in Harvest Red.

[metalcraze 290]

Well one of BIS PR guys said that many people left Limnos due to war during one of recent presentations

BIS is usually good with detail when talking about authentic environments

[2nd ranger 282]

First mission in Harvest Red.

Yeah but like Celery said, The game world is only the South Zagoria region, a fraction of the size of the country of Chernarus. Chernarus has a population of 3 million, not South Zagoria.

[Tonci87 163]

Yes, south Zagoria is only a small part of chernaruss.

BTW am I the only one who thinks that its funny to see a river in south zagoria

on that map?

Wait a second, will there be rivers on Limnos?

[jakerod 254]

Yes, south Zagoria is only a small part of chernaruss.

BTW am I the only one who thinks that its funny to see a river in south zagoria

on that map?

Wait a second, will there be rivers on Limnos?

I think that there is one in South Zagoria. If you go north of Olsha and Berezino there is an inlet from the ocean. If you follow that to the west you can see it kind of makes a river it just so happens to be dry on the map that we have. I believe it is dry season in South Zagoria on our map.

South Zagoria Map

Start at Guba (Upper Right Corner)

The river goes west to the Dam. Then towards Gvozdno and then to Petrvoka. And I just realized goes all the way to the south of Skalka on the road (far west on the map) to what I assume is Russia.

[Cripsis 10]

Your area of operation is the island of Limnos, once an important Greek air force base in the Mediterranean, now a remote hostile territory deep behind enemy lines. Still partially inhabited by a fraction of the original Greek populace and refugees from the Eastern Mediterranean, the island bears many scars from the fierce battles between NATO and the invading Iranian troops in 2025. The large airfield and the adjacent military base now serves as a basis for a fairly large Iranian force servicing the objective Omega.

Most of the formerly inhabited areas are currently unpopulated; highest population density can be found in the vicinity of Myrina and along the Southwestern coast.

Well that explains it! Thanks for clarifying PurePassion.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Wait a second, will there be rivers on Limnos?

I sure hope so, given the marine aspect of the game. Though they would have to be deep enough to prevent "stranding" a boat, and wide enough for the AI to navigate. Also, to get reasonably long stretches of rivers (even if they only exist in the lowlands - we're not getting slopy rivers, pretty much guaranteed), they have to make AI comfortable with bridges. BIS has been kinda sloppy there with A2/OA :p

[metalcraze 290]

For rivers to be there pathfinding should be good enough for AI to at least cross bridges in a normal manner

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I don't think there are any rivers on the real Lemnos. It is a relatively small island after all, and as far as I can tell from google maps it has no real rivers.

*DISCLAIMER*

I may be wrong.

:P