So how do you think Afghanistan and Iraq is developing?

[AlxPachino 10]

Like the question says, how much better or worse do you think Afghanistan and Iraq have been doing ever since the start of the two wars? Take in to fact the economic situation, political tensions, education reform, infrastructure, etc. I am curious to know what people think about this because personally I don't think the underlying situation will change much after we leave.

[eble 3]

Iraq is just fine, they will develope quite easily with or without western help, now that the west has secured oil supplies from iraq they have nothing to fear from us.

Afghanistan unfortunately is consigned to history, no force in history have ever defected the Afghans and the western forces are too little to overly effect the future of that country.

When the withdrawls are all completed, the taliban or whoever will walk in and re-take everything.

Western countries have lost interest in Afganistan now, we got Osama, thats the game over, scroll the credits on that conflict now.

Sadly been a large loss of life for what I fear will be little gain.

[AlxPachino 10]

I kinda agree with the second part you said. Afghanistan is just doomed as long as Pakistan undermines the war by allowing Tehrik-e-Taliban to operate along Waziristan and the other tribal regions. I just don't see it changing. All we have been doing is racking up body counts and not much more than that. We have been there 10 years and they are sick of us being there. More and more men in Afghanistan are supporting the Taliban because of NATO's prolonged presence in Afghanistan. We need to realize that there is not much more that we can do. All we are doing is hurting our economy and losing men. I hate to say that, but it is the cold truth.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think as a perpetual-war device, they've proved useful :)

Of course, nowadays our governments don't even bother to tell/ask/inform their own country when the next wars are arranged. Took a few weeks for me to realise we were bombing Libya.

[HyperU2 11]

Both better than Mexico.

[froggyluv 2130]

I think as a perpetual-war device, they've proved useful :)

Of course, nowadays our governments don't even bother to tell/ask/inform their own country when the next wars are arranged. Took a few weeks for me to realise we were bombing Libya.

Hehe QFT. I just expect us to be bombing *insert arab country here* at all times less I worry something is really wrong.

[-GR-Operative 10]

Hehe QFT. I just expect us to be bombing *insert arab country here* at all times less I worry something is really wrong.

As I see, the west has good relations (well, at least 'stable') with (most) arab coutries. Not that many countries have been invaded if you think for a while.

[Beagle 684]

Afghanistan will fall back to Taliban in 2014...you can see this as a fact and Karsai is already openly negotiating...bin Bin Laden dead nobody will care for Afghanstan anymore. The alternative to Taliban takeover would be a failed state like Somalia with feuding clans.

Iraq wont develop at all, the economical situation will not be far from that in the Saddam Embargo era, but general civil safety will be less due to a less militaristic gouverment.

[mrcash2009 0]

Personally I think its an illegal invaded mess as a pit-stop to kick the shit out of anyone else in that region to push forth with no real thought to the people or areas so far that have been invaded.

The truths that have come since "diving in" with all its justifications and lies proves the mentality, of which will be the same way of thinking about it all as it gets left.

Same shit different year, with more of a mess to clean up.

[Baff1 0]

I think life in Afghanistan is significantly the worse for us being there and that this will become worse yet after we leave for a few years and then, after we leave, will settle down into something akin to what it was before we got there.

Iraq has been off my radar completely since the Brits pulled out. I no longer have even the slightest intrest in what happens there.

One thing is for sure, they won't be invading Kuwait again in a hurry.

[Beagle 684]

I think life in Afghanistan is significantly the worse for us being there and that this will become worse yet after we leave for a few years and then, after we leave, will settle down into something akin to what it was before we got there.

Iraq has been off my radar completely since the Brits pulled out. I no longer have even the slightest intrest in what happens there.

One thing is for sure, they won't be invading Kuwait again in a hurry.

Kuwait had nothing to do with the reason why the UK occupied Iraq for so long the last time. It was a lie and a private feud beetween the Bush familys and Saddam Hussein...you see...we already came down onto their level. For me the so called civilized age of enlightment and humanism had ended in Oktober 2001. Edited October 21, 2011 by Beagle

[ProfTournesol 956]

According to Obama, remaining US troops will leave Irak before the end of this year.

[nettrucker 142]

Kuwait had nothing to do with the reason why the UK occupied Iraq for so long the last time. It was a lie and a private feud beetween the Bush familys and Saddam Hussein...you see...we already came down onto their level. For me the so called civilized age of enlightment and humanism had ended in Oktober 2001.

I'm with you on that Beagle The American mainstream media did hell of a job in the deceiption of the American people.

Let's not talk about that day it was mankind in it's darkest hours.

The wars are not going to end, they are perpertual. Howelse can the military industrial complex make trillions of dollars if the war would end. America wake up. Your foreign policy is kind of a rogue state. The whole world is threatened by your constant wars. America is the only nation on earth which has constantly being involved in wars since world war II.

You are trying to bring democracy in the middle east while you are denying the same to the people of the United States. This is f*cking hillarious.

Sorry for the rant:)

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

According to Obama, remaining US troops will leave Irak before the end of this year.

This man can't be trusted. His the biggest deceiption in the history of American politics. He' starting his campaign for the 2012 election. Once in power he will do the contrary of what he's promised.:eek:

[Beagle 684]

This man can't be trusted. His the biggest deceiption in the history of American politics. He' starting his campaign for the 2012 election. Once in power he will do the contrary of what he's promised.:eek:

Well, show me a single big business politician that does anyhow else.

[Baff1 0]

Kuwait had nothing to do with the reason why the UK occupied Iraq for so long the last time. .

But it was a large factor in why they invaded.

[Beagle 684]

But it was a large factor in why they invaded.

So they invaded because of a lie...that makes it not more just, sorry.

[Baff1 0]

You are trying to bring democracy in the middle east while you are denying the same to the people of the United States. This is f*cking hillarious.:

ditto this for the UK.

[nettrucker 142]

Well, show me a single big business politician that does anyhow else.

One name "Ron Paul".

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

ditto this for the UK.

ditto this for the whole world.

[Baff1 0]

So they invaded because of a lie...that makes it not more just, sorry.

What lie?

Saddam really did invade Kuwait.

We really do buy alot of our oil from Kuwait. All the garages here named "Q8" shut down when Saddam invaded.

British forces really did go there and kick him out and they really did stay there for many many years to keep him out.

The Iraqi's really did have the military capability to retake it anytime we all wanted to go home.

Now they don't.

[Beagle 684]

What lie?

Saddam really did invade Kuwait.

We really do buy alot of our oil from Kuwait. All the garages here named "Q8" shut down when Saddam invaded.

British forces really did go there and kick him out and they really did stay there for many many years to keep him out.

The Iraqi's really did have the military capability to retake it anytime we all wanted to go home.

Now they don't.

Hello, get the facts straight and in order. The Kuwait incident and second gulf war was in 1990-91

The iraq war in 2003 started because of faked reports about iraqi weaons of mass detruction...that were never found...and the claim by some Mr. Bush that Saddam is supporting something called Al Qaida.

[mrcash2009 0]

The iraq war in 2003 started because of faked reports about iraqi weaons of mass detruction...that were never found...and the claim by some Mr. Bush that Saddam is supporting something called Al Qaida.

Yes that nice garnish of 9/11 link bullshit thrown in for the hype :) What was it David Kelly emailed ... "Dark actors playing games", ah yes that was it. Edited October 21, 2011 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

All US troops out of Iraq by New year? So things are going well in Iraq now? Not sure as we don't get any news reports from there any more?

RE the lack of world democracy. I have to disagree. Last 4x I voted I got the result I wanted on 2 occasions. That's not bad is it? It's working ok for me.

[Beagle 684]

Iraq has been off my radar completely since the Brits pulled out. I no longer have even the slightest intrest in what happens there.

One thing is for sure, they won't be invading Kuwait again in a hurry.

O.K. here's a update. Since 2003 there was a major powershift in the midle east...Iran is no the greatest power in that region...and too big to swallow for a USA weakened by natinal debt and a plethora of skirmishes all over the world. NATO partners refuse more and more often to follow the US warpath.

Irans influence is now growing in Iraq.

So, what's happening recently

Afghanistan is forwarded to Pakistani based Taliban.

Iraq may very well become a Iranian satelite state.

In Lybia they are starting to get rid of the Gadaffi era by going back in society development a few decades and with the help of Allah and the Saudis we will see a islamic theocracy there emerging soon. Iran is also supporting the rebels council

I see onyl oen winner in the last decade in thze middle east

Iran

So all will be well, the USA has a new old nemesis there.

But: Iran has nuclear weapons by now

And from History we all know...nuclar weaposn make you safe from US interventions...thats why everybody wants to have it by now.

[PELHAM 10]

I see onyl oen winner in the last decade in thze middle east

Iran

Ahhh studying are we - that reminds me of a song I once heard......:rolleyes:

"Iranian In Berlin"

I don't drink pilsener I take doogh my dear

I like my kebab done on one side

And you can hear it in my accent when I talk

I'm an Iranian in Berlin

See me walking down Friedrichstrasse

A kamarbund here round my side

I take it everywhere I walk

I'm an Iranian in Berlin

[Rovka 14]

Afghanistan and Iraq's development prognosis you ask for?

On their own behalf, in their own ways, on their own time, as much as they need without any outside force messing about.

A.k.a.: Let them sort their problems for themselves by themselves. Then everyone's happy. We cannot want to police the world, and make all bleed for what we do not need.

Or in other words: What goes around, comes around at our own plates eventually.. So let's keep our noses out of their business. Otherwise they'll happily point to us for anyone to blame. And believe me, they will. (terrorist attack anyone?) Whatelse do you expect when you bomb their hometurf, their families, their friends and relatives?

Better ready yourselves for coming repercussions lads, know that our governments are to blame, when terrorists strike again. For the true ones being the terrorists are our governments themselves butchering about in their backgarden.

Oh PS: Did some of you forget your own yelling "war and death to those filthy ragheads" back in 2001 and since? They feel the same for having their own fellows butchered for sure.. Killing one terrorists gives rise to another, you'll never wipe them out unless you kill whole of mankind.

I tell you, it's really for the best to leave the matter to them, even up to as bloody as it will be, before the dust is to settle again.. (Speaking as far as their national development goes ofcourse. I wasn't referring to throwing the nukes all over the place, allthough I can think of seeing that happening at some time sadly coming true..)

Edited October 22, 2011 by Thani '82