So how do you think Afghanistan and Iraq is developing?

[PELHAM 10]

:rolleyes:

[Baff1 0]

Anyone living in a western country had to pay bribes to corrupt officials, civil servants or in a place of business or witness such a thing occurring frequently or even at all? .

Anyone living in a western country who does not?

We don't even bother to call it corruption here anymore. It's been institutionalised.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Anyone living in a western country who does not?

We don't even bother to call it corruption here anymore. It's been institutionalised.

Care to elaborate ?

[katipo66 94]

Well Mesopotamia is reputed to be the cradle of civilisation so it follows that they invented corruption 5 mins after that. No wonder they are better at it than everyone else!

You will never end bribery and corruption in Iraq, it's been embedded in the culture for 1000s of years.

Lol at this shit, bribery and corruption is imbedded everywhere,

explain how they are better at it than everyone else.

[Baff1 0]

They are much worse at it.

They don't even use direct debits. Amateurs!

[PELHAM 10]

Go back and read from Road Runners post about the corruption he experienced day to day at the airport in Iraq.

In the middle east and elsewhere corruption and bribery is part of every day life. I was told that the same thing happens in the west - we just wear suits while we do it.

My question was - has anyone living in a western country had to pay a bribe to a civil servant, policeman, customs official, local councillor, teacher, dentist or doctor recently? Because I have never had to and I thought I would ask because mrcash originally seemed to think that corruption in Iraq was on a par with corruption in the west.

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 PM ----------

Anyone living in a western country who does not?

We don't even bother to call it corruption here anymore. It's been institutionalised.

Yes elaborate - I have not had to pay anyone anything ever?

[Baff1 0]

You must be the only one.

At least in Iraq only one policemen can steal from me at a time.

They don't have the same institutions. Apparatus of state.

Fleecing the people is a bit more developed here. Systematic. The bill just comes through the post and I pay it. The policemen doesn't even have to stop his car.

Nor does the tax man. Or the health and safety inspector or the planning permission guy or the customs and excise guy. Or the benefits scrounger.

They all take their cut and I just pay them.

The Iraqi's, they aren't in our league. They make such hard work of it. And in Iraq, if you just sped off, you'd get away with your money too.

Not here.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Baff1

[katipo66 94]

The best one ive seen is those nazi parking warden barstards, they slap tickets on anything and everything (barstards!!) its designed to make it impossible to dispute, i.e. time off work, trips to court, forms to fill... free money right there.

[mrcash2009 0]

Because I have never had to and I thought I would ask because mrcash originally seemed to think that corruption in Iraq was on a par with corruption in the west.

Actually I always thought the same, and that was at higher level as I described before, but anyway points taken and a bit clearer than previously.

[PELHAM 10]

The bill just comes through the post and I pay it.

I'm talking about corruption and bribes - do you know what that actually is?

They don't send you a bill when they want you to pay a bribe?

[PELHAM 10]

Going back to the main topic of this thread!

War in Afghanistan:

Not much can happen until Pakistan stops training, funding, arming and giving sanctuary to the Afghan Taliban and others. They have also taken steps to prevent any kind of peace process by arresting any Taliban leaders who negotiate without permission and organising terrorist attacks against Afghan government officials who are involved in peace talks.

The fact that Osama Bin Laden was discovered hiding in plain sight in Pakistan is not mysterious when you look at the other activities of the Pakistani ISI. Their duplicity began during the original invasion 10 years ago when they airlifted all the senior Taliban leadership out of Afghanistan to safety and misled the US about the operation. Pakistan originally set up the Taliban to prevent Indian influence in Afghanistan - that is still their long term strategic view.

There is already a secret war going on in Pakistan - I guess the options are leave Afghanistan to its fate or attack Pakistan? I just hope the west stops handing money to this supposed friend.

Edited November 3, 2011 by PELHAM

[ProfTournesol 956]

Pakistan originally set up the Taliban to prevent Indian influence in Afghanistan - that is still their long term strategic view.

Well, their long term view is to control Afghanistan, directly or indirectly.

Looking at a map is very informative : see where the Pashtun (lot's of Afghan Talibans among them) are located, in light green here, close to the incredibly long frontier with Pakistan (Pashtun geographical distribution is shared between South Afghanistan and Northwest Pakistan).

[PELHAM 10]

Well, their long term view is to control Afghanistan, directly or indirectly.

Looking at a map is very informative : see where the Pashtun (lot's of Afghan Talibans among them) are located, in light green here, close to the incredibly long frontier with Pakistan (Pashtun geographical distribution is shared between South Afghanistan and Northwest Pakistan).

Exactly right - the Pashtuns do not even recognise there is a border.

Once again we fall into the trap of labelling people by geography. They consider themselves Pashtuns 1st, Afghani or Pakistani 2nd. Same for Iraq or anywhere else in the world you might consider.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

So how do you think Afghanistan and Iraq is developing?

A paradise for weapon dealers?