ARMA 2: OA beta Build_85330

[maddogx 13]

The only kind of damage that should reasonably be reduced when prone, in my opinion, is indirect damage from explosions and such. Direct hits should always cause the same amount, regardless of stance.

[suma 8]

Wonder why BIS doesn't simply fix this once and for all?

It wasn't there in OFP and the game still played OK.

Because it was there in OFP, and the game still played OK. :j:

(The code is there from 28.1.2000)

Nevermind, fixed as of 85420 :bounce3:

[roberthammer 582]

Because it was there in OFP, and the game still played OK. :j:

(The code is there from 28.1.2000)

Nevermind, fixed as of 85420 :bounce3:

Cool Suma :)

now can you fix those 2 other ones too :p

[suma 8]

Give the devil a finger, he will take a whole hand.

:D :j: :D

[maddogx 13]

Nevermind, fixed as of 85420 :bounce3:

For direct hits only, or also for indirect hits / splash damage? :D

[msy 22]

I'm seeing the AI swallow 223 and 308 rounds at 600m one after the other and still shoot back. As much as seven rounds to take them down sometimes. They can be lying prone and take them in the face and down the neck and they're fine until they die. I see the blood. Anyone else noticing that?

Not only these bullets, I saw AI sniper with M107 shooting someone from 200m (yes this sniper has encountered closed combat) away like firing a automatic rifle.

I think a sniper role for AI should be more like to do one shot one kill.

Edited October 13, 2011 by msy

[danil-ch 165]

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/6823

Very old bug.

[danny96 79]

is this patch fixed AI going thru objects?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Giggled at Suma's answer on the date :p

For direct hits only, or also for indirect hits / splash damage? :D

Hope not. But how the hell to implement proper splash damage? Being prone should reduce splash damage considerably if it happens on same level as unit (cone shape), but not so much if splash comes from above (shell airburst) in which damage should be increase but only for soft targets.

I've tried in the past to make airbursts, adjusting damage values only, and not doing heavy stuff with damage handlers - but I found it impossible, probably for those reasons. When increased so that soft targets took adequate damage, armor would also be severely damaged from them (which makes no sense).

What would be good ways to simulate this?

[On_Sabbatical 11]

is this patch fixed AI going thru objects?

We're already having problems gettting AI out of simple shapes (rectangular fence with one way out for example),i think it's better to keep this walking through feature as it fixes many many issues.

[OMAC 254]

We're already having problems gettting AI out of simple shapes (rectangular fence with one way out for example),i think it's better to keep this walking through feature as it fixes many many issues.

I would have to agree (unless AI route finding issues are fixed first).

There is a whirlwind of fixes occurring right now! :D Is there serious gameplay testing going on with both SP and MP campaigns/scenarios? If the devs can suggest particular missions to test that are most likely to be affected by recent fixes, we'll do it to save them time.

From my standpoint, the issue of vegetation (at least grasses) not blocking AI vision/targeting is a MAJOR ONE that affects many, many missions. Has that issue been fixed?

Edited October 14, 2011 by OMAC

[kremator 1064]

We're already having problems gettting AI out of simple shapes (rectangular fence with one way out for example),i think it's better to keep this walking through feature as it fixes many many issues.

This just needs work. Doesn't need to be scrapped.

Remember, seeing AI walk through fences is an immersion breaker for a lot of community members.

[OMAC 254]

I know what you mean. Using this beta today, I saw a wounded friendly AI crawl through a house in Trial By Fire, and I don't mean by using the door.

[Fireball 16]

This just needs work. Doesn't need to be scrapped.

Remember, seeing AI walk through fences is an immersion breaker for a lot of community members.

It would require a new path finding engine, one, like it was licensed for VBS2. But mind you, one license costs there the tenfold as one for A2+OA together, so hold your horses.

Maybe we *might* see some improvement in A3 - you never know! ;)

[froggyluv 2130]

It would require a new path finding engine, one, like it was licensed for VBS2. But mind you, one license costs there the tenfold as one for A2+OA together, so hold your horses.

Maybe we *might* see some improvement in A3 - you never know! ;)

Well if it sold 15x as many copies it'd be well worth it -I promise to buy 4 if implemented -Bank it!

As far as current situation I can understand its use as a necessary evil -however I'd like it if it happens less often in smaller scale missions -only kicking in in Warfare style mission where hundreds of units pathfinding is being processed. Scale feature to mission size.

Edited October 13, 2011 by froggyluv

[metalcraze 290]

From my standpoint, the issue of vegetation (at least grasses) not blocking AI vision/targeting is a MAJOR ONE that affects many, many missions. Has that issue been fixed?

Vegetation always blocks AI visition/targeting.

Doesn't mean AI can't kill you through it if it believe you are there (like seeing you running behind a bush)

This just needs work. Doesn't need to be scrapped.

Remember, seeing AI walk through fences is an immersion breaker for a lot of community members.

Immersion breaking has little to do with an enemy suddenly passing through a concrete wall behind you and putting a bullet into your back

BIS fixed bridges and infantry after 10 years so why not this?

With my limited knowledge (but hopefully I'm somewhat right) I suggested a similar solution at dev-heaven through using waypoints (or whatever BIS uses for bridges) - like when AI crosses a bridge you can see them following a scripted linear path on it. Same could've been done with holes in walls. All BIS needs to do is just make AI go prone while it passes through. Even if it will seem scripted it's still a superior solution than magical ghosts.

Here's the ticket

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25348

Would be nice if some dev was to explain if I'm wrong or right and if the idea makes any sense

Edited October 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[Fireball 16]

Here's the ticket

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25348

Would be nice if some dev was to explain if I'm wrong or right and if the idea makes any sense

Without being the dev you hope for, I think the main issue is, that it was never thought of during map and AI pathfinding design.

Without a advanced pathfinding AI which calculates possible ways out in a complicated manner or even "learns" the environment by neuronal nets, it would require that every "hotspot" (e.g. hole in the fence, gap in the wall, etc.) be marked on the map with appropriate waypoints for AI to get around them, indicating even the required stance, at times.

If this was planned throughout the map design to begin with and the AI pathfinding was fit with the necessary intelligence, it could work, but now, you can imagine how unlikely such a re-implementation seems.

Again, you never know, what happens for A3 - complex AI pathfinding could be easily directed towards multiple CPU cores (e.g. in a round-robin manner for each AI unit), so nowadays CPUs could handle it.

[maturin 12]

Without a advanced pathfinding AI which calculates possible ways out in a complicated manner or even "learns" the environment by neuronal nets, it would require that every "hotspot" (e.g. hole in the fence, gap in the wall, etc.) be marked on the map with appropriate waypoints for AI to get around them, indicating even the required stance, at times.

And why is that remotely difficult? Every gap in a concrete fence has its own special model. Changing the config for that one 3D model would solve the problem everywhere. They just didn't do it to begin with and now it's too complicated for beta patches.

Letting the AI step over all fences would be tougher.

[metalcraze 290]

@Fireball: If you remember AI also didn't include bridges into pathfinding at all. It was simply ignoring the bridge. Then BIS updated content in ArmA2 and they got waypoints through it.

Just for the sake of testing BIS can do the same with at least one model of fence for now (the concrete wall with a hole underneath present at every military base on Takistan) and see if it doesn't break anything and helps.

We are always here to test.

[.kju 3239]

metalcraze if you were to stop with your cheap talk and actually start to provide demo missions with repro steps..

[metalcraze 290]

I provide demo missions with repro steps at CIT whenever I can

But how exactly a demo mission will help here? It isn't like BIS doesn't know that AI units pass through fences with holes underneath - it was their design decision.

Added repro regardless

Edited October 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[Fireball 16]

Well, Suma is fixing all (or most) of the stuff here, in this phase, but he didn't do all the "breakage" or misfeatures himself (or if, then maybe over a decade ago). So he might as surprised to hear about some stuff, you wouldn't expect.

Plus, he's fixing the issues, but we are the QA team now and by the collective we are, probably the best one A2/OA ever faced. :p So repro or death (thanks for your contributions so far, btw.)!

Tbh, we (including some other BI members) probably underestimated the fixing/coding skills of Suma many times before - so if there be a reasonably easy fix to pathfinding around all the fences, walls and pipes, it's him who can do it or initiate it and I'll be happy to stand corrected toward my previous statement.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Fireball

[OMAC 254]

Vegetation always blocks AI visition/targeting.

Doesn't mean AI can't kill you through it if it believe you are there (like seeing you running behind a bush)

Wrong.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/24177

I guess the 1.60 beta issue has not been fixed...

[maturin 12]

Wrong.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/24177

I guess the 1.60 beta issue has not been fixed...

He didn't include grass in vegetation. Grass is just a texture on a plane, not a 3D model. It hasn't blocked line of sight ever until a partial fix in a beta patch.

[msy 22]

Wrong.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/24177

I guess the 1.60 beta issue has not been fixed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cVOHqFHEgY