[Sound] Echoes system from Battlefield 3

[batto 17]

True that. It's hard to find video where players just STFU and play. By the way, the sound is only thing that I like in that game.

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[ghost101 10]

^^^ just over-the-top echo. it's the audio equivalent of visual graphic designers who use too much bloom to give "realism" to visuals.

[katipo66 94]

Fuck realism, if I want that I'll go outside and listen too birds! It's a game... I want immersion

[batto 17]

^^^ just over-the-top echo. it's the audio equivalent of visual graphic designers who use too much bloom to give "realism" to visuals.

Watch 10 seconds of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgabA-i_60&t=70

and then 10 seconds of this:

Quite similar isn't it?

[ghost101 10]

if I want "immersion", I watch a movie or play Shadow of the Colosuss on my PlayStation.

in ArmA, I want sounds which communicate tactical information and are authentic. I want accurate sounds so that I can easily distinguish an M4 from an AK, and sounds that communicate direction ...so that I do not shoot friendly troops.

[katipo66 94]

Your trying to hard...

Arma sounds are not realistic, armour and most vehicles sounds closer than they really are, so does gun fire and chatter, at least on my system, you cannot judge range accurately, or trust the distance of the sound you hear.

Default arma sounds are just flat and lifeless!

[metalcraze 290]

Fuck realism, if I want that I'll go outside and listen too birds! It's a game... I want immersion

Realism = immersion

When a toilet has a sound of a concert hall this isn't "immershun!!!1"

[ghost101 10]

Your trying to hard...

Arma sounds are not realistic, armour and most vehicles sounds closer than they really are, so does gun fire and chatter, at least on my system, you cannot judge range accurately, or trust the distance of the sound you hear.

Default arma sounds are just flat and lifeless!

i don't need to try hard. what i'm saying is right for ArmA.

I have no idea of your audio setup, but are you using earphones, or loud speaker? Binaural audio localization does not work on LS. For ArmA, you also need a soundcard that is capable of Virtual 3D and it usually needs to be activated (soundcard settings). As far as I know, ArmA is not doing the binaural processing itself.

Anyway, sounds are not perfect in ArmA, levels on many sounds need adjusting to give them more depth, etc. The various sound-mods already available proves there is room for improvement and BIS have already said they are looking into this for ArmA 3.

But to say that you want BIS to emulate Battlefield's audio design is ridiculous. You want tank audio synthesized with lion roars and unnatural levels of echo which will interfere with localization? in ArmA? comon!

[katipo66 94]

@metalcraze: What ever floats your boat, like I say, I can play vanilla arma no problem except for sound, I have to use a sound mod... Cos it gives the game life.

@ghost: I don't want BIS to emulate anyone but themselves, would just like an improved sound in game.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Katipo66

[BlackLord 0]

Yes, all weapons should sound like a broomstick hitting the floor, that's realism that's what we want.

[ghost101 10]

yeah, reality can be a boring pill for some to swallow after all those Hollywood movies and episodes of Band of Brothers.

bSfjT5-P65g

[welcome to hell 23]

^^^ just over-the-top echo. it's the audio equivalent of visual graphic designers who use too much bloom to give "realism" to visuals.

Its not over the top, its right on the spot. I have 7.1 Surround sound PCI card and let me tell you it sounds superior to anything ArmA series has to offer in terms of directional audio and sound echo, and mix levels. [Fanboy Hate incoming]

Here is the demonstration of this "Hollywood" echo/reverb in ArmA 2:

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---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

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yeah, reality can be a boring pill for some to swallow after all those Hollywood movies and episodes of Band of Brothers.

bSfjT5-P65g

I'm sorry but people like you "Armchair Grunts" are delusional at best.

I fired my Ak-74 in Ukraine for three years and I can tell you that shooting is nothing like that. After a shot there is a crack than an echo. First burst and your ears are ringing and there is little sound but a lot of noise after that,

Boring? my god you are delusional, its so scary your butt-cheeks clinch together.

here is an example:

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Edited October 2, 2011 by Welcome To Hell

[metalcraze 290]

@metalcraze: What ever floats your boat, like I say, I can play vanilla arma no problem except for sound, I have to use a sound mod... Cos it gives the game life.

I use soundmods myself. Because ArmA weapons lack the "punch". I was just saying that the other side of the spectrum (which BF3 is) - is too over the top for the sake of the wow-effect.

[ghost101 10]

Welcome To Hell:

the video I posted of the guys on the gun-range are outside, in the middle of a desert with few objects around to create echoes. that's why you hear very little.

the video you posted failed, along with the rest of your post, so i was unable to watch the point you are trying to make.

anyway, this is not just about "echo" - it's about sound design in general. sound in BF is highly exagerated and also unrealistic. you should be able to hear that with your own ears, but the fact that DICE synthesize tank engines with lions roaring (for example) proves that point beyond doubt.

[160thSOAR 10]

Well, ArmA2 does need a sound fix. When an AKM sounds like an airsoft gun, something's wrong. You can also use the Mk16 and especially the Mk17 as silenced weapons right now, they're really quiet.

I haven't played the BF3 Beta yet (thanks Battlelog!), so I can't really comment on that aspect of it.

ACE2 does a pretty good job with sounds, making AK's and variants very loud, etc. If the devs would implement some of the ACE2 sounds and make the ground vehicle sounds a bit louder and more "rumbly", I think we would be good.

A mod that does a nice job with echoes is I44. Go onto the firing range, and get an MG42. When you fire it, there is a definite echo. However, the echo doesn't seem to be affected by the length of the burst you fire, just a recorded sound that activates whether you fire an entire clip or a single bullet.

Edited October 2, 2011 by 160thSOAR

[antoineflemming 14]

ArmA2 sounds need much improvement. Any fanboy saying otherwise is just that, a fanboy.

[ghost101 10]

ArmA2 sounds need much improvement. Any fanboy saying otherwise is just that, a fanboy.

no one said ArmA sound doesn't need to be improved. what people are saying is that it doesn't need to sound like Battlefield - which is what OP and a few others are suggesting. read the thread before making lazy fanboy accusations.

Welcome To Hell:

that Russian firefight video doesn't sound like BF. nothing like it.

Edited October 2, 2011 by ghost101

[welcome to hell 23]

ArmA2 sounds need much improvement. Any fanboy saying otherwise is just that, a fanboy.

ghost101 is a mega fanboy, therefore any reasonable argument falls on deaf ears, since fanboys can only process things they want to hear and nothing else.

Also he seems to be ill with the armchair grunt syndrome, therefore I shall rest my case there.

Here is another comparison, again it is not about the individual sounds themselves, it is about the feel of the whole battlefield and player actions.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9f5_1304264211

ArmA-3 Needs variable echoes and sound reverb!

[ghost101 10]

ArmA-3 Needs variable echoes and sound reverb!

Quite. Not sure where Battlefield 3's sound-scape fits into that equation, though. Seen as BF3 didn't invent variable echoes or sound reverb, wasn't the first to use it and its based samples (which sound so "real" to your Hollywood trained ears) consist mainly of samples synthesized with the mating calls of wild animals.

Clearly a Battlefield fanboy.

[whiskeytango 11]

Sounds will no doubt be improved and everyone will just replace the sounds via a mod anyway if they're not happy.

I use AceSM and am quite happy with it for now.

[andersson 285]

Some food for thought. To get realistic sounds you need to be creative.

Its difficult to record the complete experience of a shot (yes, I shoot in different environments).

As long as the sound engine is good Im happy, then soundmods can cater for all different needs. One must remember that a sound is also different depending on your software and hardware setup, change computer and your favourite soundmod is not the same anymore..

What I dont want is "unrealistic" sounds regarding the actual sound, not necessarily the effect. An AK74 should sound like an ak74, not a shotgun. A m16 should sound like an 5.56 m16, not a 7.62 machinegun. You get my point?

Edited October 3, 2011 by andersson

[b00ce 160]

Quite. Not sure where Battlefield 3's sound-scape fits into that equation, though. Seen as BF3 didn't invent variable echoes or sound reverb, wasn't the first to use it and its based samples (which sound so "real" to your Hollywood trained ears) consist mainly of samples synthesized with the mating calls of wild animals.

Clearly a Battlefield fanboy.

He isn't talking about the sounds by themselves. He is talking about how the engine HANDLES the sounds. About how the sounds are effected by the environment. :rolleyes:

[sickboy 13]

Evidently, sound is rather subjective and personal. Sure there is "The way it sounds in reallife", but even about that people are not agreeing :D

If you don't like the vanilla sounds, use a soundmod, there's many of them available, there has to be something you like.

Other than that, more control over sound in the ArmA engine is probably welcome, especially re echo/reverb.

AFAIK BIS has planned sound improvements for A3, the question remains; is this improved sound samples, or control / effects?

[andersson 285]

I hope for better 3d positioning using x-fi cmss-3d. It was better in armed assault than in arma2.

[metalcraze 290]

He isn't talking about the sounds by themselves. He is talking about how the engine HANDLES the sounds. About how the sounds are effected by the environment. :rolleyes:

Except BF3 being all about corridors has an environment that uses pre-recorded sounds since using echo and reverb would burn consoles alive (since EAX is only but a dream there, so an already extremely weak CPU would have to render these effects - unless they are stuffing the same CPU effect over every sound then maybe it does) - which as you understand is hard to do in a game that is all about open environments where sounds don't start and end with a few weapons and footsteps - since it won't just take too much time but make sounds in ArmA3 take gigabytes of space. Add to that that echoes and reverb are completely unrealistic in BF3 since as I've said toilets don't sound like concert halls IRL.

Now if an engine was to render echo and reverb with CPU (since ArmA3 won't support EAX) it would've been another thing. But even then I can't begin to imagine how many resources it will take.

Edited October 3, 2011 by metalcraze