[Sound] Echoes system from Battlefield 3

[jhoson14 10]

If that echoes is close to real, i would be really deafen.

Been shooting for about 12 years, alreay shot indoor and in field and never got anything near that hollywood sounds from this BF3 demo.

[roberthammer 582]

If that echoes is close to real, i would be really deafen.

Been shooting for about 12 years, alreay shot indoor and in field and never got anything near that hollywood sounds from this BF3 demo.

I agree - those BF3 sounds are for show "awesome sounds" hollywood style , real life sounds are different mainly those echoes

[PuFu 4591]

well, instead of talking about the sounds as such, i would much rather talk about the sound SYSTEM/ENGINE, which is, in my opinion, one of the best out there

[Dead3yez 0]

Buy JSRS + Improve sound engine. A simple reverb and improved cutoff/muffle controls depending on surroundings etc.

ArmA III 2* as good as ArmA II, just for that. ;)

[EDcase 87]

Yes, of course BF3 sounds more hollywood than real life but thats fine because in real life guns don't sound very interesting.

The overall sound system needs an overhaul for ARMA3

Spacial awareness is very poor in ARMA2 when you are close to the source of noise.

(Stand next to a vehicle with engine running and spin with your eyes closed. Can you tell when the car is in front or behind you?)

[Dead3yez 0]

Can you tell when the car is in front or behind you?)

Quadrophonic sound. :D

[ghost101 10]

Yes, of course BF3 sounds more hollywood than real life but thats fine because in real life guns don't sound very interesting.

The overall sound system needs an overhaul for ARMA3

Spacial awareness is very poor in ARMA2 when you are close to the source of noise.

(Stand next to a vehicle with engine running and spin with your eyes closed. Can you tell when the car is in front or behind you?)

I switch on my card's CMSS-3D (Creative) and I'm able to pinpoint sounds quite accurately. I'm not sure how it does this if ArmA is only producing stereo sound but the binaural effect is pretty convincing.

[metalcraze 290]

BF3 lighting system with the flashlights is epic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoFdPW_IYE

Has nothing to do with reality. Especially blinding flashlights are the massive wtf.

Lighting also isn't real. Why contrast is so overexaggerated and everything is so blue?

Edited October 1, 2011 by metalcraze

[roberthammer 582]

Has nothing to do with reality. Especially blinding flashlights are the massive wtf.

Lighting also isn't real. Why contrast is so overexaggerated and everything is so blue?

Rye said that in sarcasm heh :p

Because most of guys are thinking what is in BF3 , thats automaticly realistic and epic awesome

[EDcase 87]

Quadrophonic sound. :D

I'm using 5.1 headphones (jack, not USB) and it works great when more than 50m away but up close localization is gone. I agree it should reduce when close but you should always have some sense of direction.

I switch on my card's CMSS-3D (Creative) and I'm able to pinpoint sounds quite accurately. I'm not sure how it does this if ArmA is only producing stereo sound but the binaural effect is pretty convincing.

Yeah, thats done by your sound card so not the same as vanilla ARMA

[metalcraze 290]

I wonder why BIS doesn't use EAX?

Actually vanilla ArmA2 sound system is more advanced than BF3

If you've noticed sound sources become occluded by objects around them.

Like you can get to the enemy base with something as loud as BMP with a high chance of being unnoticed if there will be a forest between you and that base.

Works with single trees too. Put a flying chopper in the editor near trees and start moving around - pretty impressive. Wonder how many resources it consumes.

The only thing that ArmA lacks is EAX really

[ghost101 10]

Yeah, thats done by your sound card so not the same as vanilla ARMA

yeah, i know but i was wondering how even the sound card knows how to correctly place sound in 3D space. Stereo sound gives no information of a sound's elevation, whether it's coming from front, back, etc. just left and right channel intensity. seems weird. :confused:

i know how regular binaural processing works and you usually have to have information of the location of a sound before you do the magical binaural processing.

[Dwarden 1124]

I wonder why BIS doesn't use EAX?

Actually vanilla ArmA2 sound system is more advanced than BF3

If you've noticed sound sources become occluded by objects around them.

Like you can get to the enemy base with something as loud as BMP with a high chance of being unnoticed if there will be a forest between you and that base.

Works with single trees too. Put a flying chopper in the editor near trees and start moving around - pretty impressive. Wonder how many resources it consumes.

The only thing that ArmA lacks is EAX really

we used OpenAL (unsure if with EAX or not) in past but the problem were issues with the API and support/drivers from audio card makers

so it was dropped for more 'clean' and usable xAudio2 including also x3Daudio

while i personally wish we still were able support also OpenAL+ EAX 2-5

it's not possible due to some major differences

[hellfire257 3]

I did have some trouble back in A1 with OpenAL.

[roberthammer 582]

I never had a issue with my X-fi in ArmA 1 - it worked perfectly , proper position sounds etc

[ghost101 10]

so it was dropped for more 'clean' and usable xAudio2 including also x3Daudio

ah, so ArmA sounds are wrapped in a X3DAudio class which provides spatial location to soundcard. now i see.

[nodunit 397]

By that merit if objects and landscape can blot out sounds and vary in distance vs location wouldn't echo be possible? I don't know if it should be to the point of bf3 however, it always seemed a bit overdone as if I was fighting in a warhouse that looked like a house.

Though since a dev is watching are there any plans to change the sound system for vehicles? Right now if you are using a vehicle the engine sounds different more muffled and you can hear certain things, but when it comes to weapons regardless of type it sounds the same inside and outside.

Edited October 1, 2011 by NodUnit

[metalcraze 290]

OFP has EAX. It sounds mighty fine when creative drivers forget about how buggy they are.

Like when you are in the open field and press LMB it sounds better than anything BF3 has to offer.

A pity about it not coming back.

If people want to know what their EAX cards were really capable of doing they also should check out Thief series and System Shock 2. No game with glued echo systems comes even a mile close.

01oPyXTIFys

Edited October 1, 2011 by metalcraze

[Dead3yez 0]

I never had a issue with my X-fi in ArmA 1 - it worked perfectly , proper position sounds etc

Me either.

+ I'm kind of missing the EAX in A1.

[onlyrazor 11]

If people want to know what their EAX cards were really capable of doing they also should check out Thief series and System Shock 2. No game with glued echo systems comes even a mile close.

I think it would be good for game developers worldwide to reexam-re-re-re-re-re-reexamine their priorities.

[katipo66 94]

Some insight into their sound development http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/02/28/war-tapes-the-sounds-of-battlefield-3.aspx

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Well, Oblivion have a rather cool feature in its sound engine, in that for a stereo system:

1) Sound is present also on the far ear, whereas in Arma you go deaf on the far ear. Wtf?

2) Sounds behind you is made slightly duller treble by simple EQ'ing.

= Easy spatial hearing.

I can live with builtin echoes in mods, or no echoes in vanilla. But I want some major revisions to the sound engine to better support dynamic changes done to the sound on the fly, and (new) support for stereo sounds with spatial information. Like if you're standing next to a truck, local early reflections will provide a great stereo image (even if simply faked), whereas stereo information is reduced to mono as you get away from the source.

[ghost101 10]

Some insight into their sound development http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/02/28/war-tapes-the-sounds-of-battlefield-3.aspx

3:40 >

"we use a lot of animals in the sound. for falling towers...we use a lion [roar] as a tank..."

yeah, really realistic. BF is using "clever" sound design, not realistic sound design. they're using your pre-conceived ideas as to what most people _think_ certain things should sound like, not what they _actually_ sound like. Hollywood movies use the same techniques, synthesizing lots of different (unrelated) sounds together to give them more dramatic impact. And they know that the only experience players have of hearing towers fall and tanks rolling comes from Hollywood movies. That is "reality" to most people and so BF plays on those expectations.

whatever Stefan Strandberg says - BF soundscape is pure exaggerated Hollywood stylization.

Even with apparently limited effort put in by BIS on sound, their use of 3D placement, real recorded sounds and occlusion, etc. is more realistic than BF and probably all you need.

so, everyone, please STFU about BF. k?

Edited October 2, 2011 by ghost101

[batto 17]

Hello.

I watched some videos of BF3 multiplayer on youtube (

). I think that the shooting in background is probably the most realistics sound of shooting I've heard in game. I'm judging by recent events in Lybia. On the first day of fights in Tripolis I've watched BBC and CNN. BBC had static camera positioned to town in big distance. CNN had reporter (big respect to her) on entry to Kadafi compound and many incoming rebels were shooting in the air just for fun. Pretty terrific and more intensive than in BF3 but I think it's quite similar (of course to some degree). I'm talking only about firefights, not other sounds.

[ghost101 10]

Hello.

I watched some videos of BF3 multiplayer on youtube (

). I think that the shooting in background is probably the most realistics sound of shooting I've heard in game.

i couldn't hear any sound clearly over the constant nonestop "omg pwn4d!!2!" talk of the commentators in that vid. i think the only thing you're hearing clearly is Sony's marketing hype.