The trouble with getting people into Arma

[Smurf 12]

What I mean is most of the players wants games like COD, MW2-3 or BF3, just respawn and start shooting, a fast paced game, you know

So they will stay on those games.

The problem here is the people that want to try ARMA and just can´t because of the server+mods issues. They can´t (and shouldn´t) figure out by themselves how to do it. And thats something have to change....

[SPC.Spets 21]

well yes, I also have that problem and quit trying to join those custom servers. But I play only 1 or 2 a week in my community, and I dont need or want to play in pubs servers, maybe PR. I saw a topic talking about automatic download addons, I think its crazy because sometimes you need a tons of GBytes to download. If they are not smart enough to ask in forums or maybe join some community to play this game/sim... well they better stay away from this, they just want everything served on a plate, this is not their kind

EDIT: and omg! im not trying to sound rude, pro, whatever... It would be really good if devs found a solution to make all happy... but, hey! they release Arma2 FREE and... they still choose codbf3style games

Edited February 8, 2012 by SpetS15

[Smurf 12]

Everything served in a plate? Really? FPDR

Redirect to a FTP\HTTP (fr large sized files) or auto-download within the game is something thats been around for decades now.

I know those newer generations have to have this "instant gratification", hate that. But have to struggle throught foruns\websites to play a game? This isn´t the 90s anymore and BIS is losing costumers right there.

[SPC.Spets 21]

well, I asked those people to try Arma2, and this is what I get from them, oh no, its too slow! you die its over! the bullet dont hit the target at long distance (LOL) you cant jump oh noes! flyng a chopper is too difficult no way! woot? you cant shoot while running? etcetcetc

but yeah COD4 have that FTPthing for custom maps/mods, but in Arma2 you need diferent setup at the start of the game to join an specific server, and if you play in many servers with different addons, i dont know... maybe something to implement Addonsync with Arma2Launcher without restarting the game?

[feralcircus 2]

Simple solution...

If you cant understand ARMA, play COD instead :-)

Buy a games console, not a PC.

Draw with Etch- A-sketch instead of Autocad / 3ds MAX.

Be a bin man, not a pilot.

Play Checkers, not Chess... etc...etc...etc...

The two don't need to be mixed.

Someone once decided to strap big sponges to fighters fists and created a neanderthal pile of excrement called Boxing?!?! Not even alowed to use your feet lol :-s

All im saying is the easier option already exists with everything.

[dmarkwick 261]

Simple solution...

If you cant understand ARMA, play COD instead :-)

Buy a games console, not a PC.

Draw with Etch- A-sketch instead of Autocad / 3ds MAX.

Be a bin man, not a pilot.

Play Checkers, not Chess... etc...etc...etc...

The two don't need to be mixed.

Someone once decided to strap big sponges to fighters fists and created a neanderthal pile of excrement called Boxing?!?! Not even alowed to use your feet lol :-s

All im saying is the easier option already exists with everything.

It's this kind of dismissive attitude we're trying to work around not encourage. Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, ArmA suffers not from being too "intelligent" for some players, just too inaccessible in the first instance. There's quite a step from simply logging on & playing a vanilla server mission to logging on & playing a modded server mission. You have to:

Identify the mods you need.

Find them.

Find out how to install them properly.

Manage them into shortcuts.

Use the correct shortcut for the correct server.

Now I'm not suggesting that's all incredi-difficult, but you have to learn ALL of that before you can join any modded server. Launchers & managers help, but they represent just another thing you have to learn about, you have to know about their existence for a start. The suggestion is that these steps can be eased by having most of them integrated into the product, that's all. Will it happen? Probably not, but this is a discussion about that.

[instagoat 133]

Simple solution...

If you cant understand ARMA, play COD instead :-)

Buy a games console, not a PC.

Draw with Etch- A-sketch instead of Autocad / 3ds MAX.

Be a bin man, not a pilot.

Play Checkers, not Chess... etc...etc...etc...

The two don't need to be mixed.

Someone once decided to strap big sponges to fighters fists and created a neanderthal pile of excrement called Boxing?!?! Not even alowed to use your feet lol :-s

All im saying is the easier option already exists with everything.

This kind of BS elitism is one of the things that can make a community rot. You can either have a living game with a broad player base, which is easily moddable for the hardcore crowd to get their fix, or you can a super-hard sim with a tiny player base, which frustrates the hell out of every newcomer and which stalls new influx into the existing community structures.

From CWR to Arma to Arma 2, as far as I could see, the amount of community work in mods and missions gradually decreased, because the times changed, and the game stayed the old, rugged, hyper-complex, difficult to get into system it has always been since the OFP days.

If people can´t have fun from day one, they will switch over to games which satisfy them more easily. Fun can also be in learning a game. That is why we need better tutorials: learning the complexity of the game needs to be fun in itself. Base complexity doesn´t matter, and it´s not gonna be changed anyway. The core game will not be dumbed down, it will be improved. That at least is the hope that I have, and if BI isn´t up to the game, if I won´t be satisfied, I will be out of it too.

Because I for one am, after ten years, fed up with the same old OFP.

Edit: Okay maybe I´m not entirely, but you know what I mean. :I I just would like to see A3 boost the community from several dozen to several hundred of modders again or something.

Edited February 9, 2012 by InstaGoat

[feralcircus 2]

Wasn't elitism, more sarcasm :-)

It says on the reverse of the CD case...

"ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR"

And that's what it's been since Operation Flashpoint.

In the editor the possibilities are literaly infinite!

Makes my giggle like a child knowing people have bought it then complained It's too complex lol

Good work BIS, As you were! (salute)

lol

[Pummel 10]

In my opinion though, Arma 2 is technically advanced enough that it can provide ALL types of gaming. I I tried to get my friends to play Arma2 and they tried the demo and said "it's too realistic for me" and they went back to CoD/BF. (which they quit a month later because they got bored... idiots)

But really Arma2 (and 3) should be able to provide both types of gameplay. You can have really huge hardcore games which take hours to complete and requires a lot of skill and full insertion and extractions and support from the air etc... But the game can also (easily!) provide BF3 type gameplay too. I own BF3 and tried to play it for a week or two but it really is nothing special... The maps have a lot of detail in graphics and in nooks and crannies, but it's not a whole lot different to Arma. If you just took one or two of the big villages in Takistan and put a box around them, it would be pretty much the same experience imo... The tanks are a bit harder to drive and the bullets droop over long distances and stuff, but it's not THAT much more complex. So I think ARMA3 should really be designed to appeal to everyone. If you want super realism you can have that on some missions and modes, and if you just want easy run and gun, you can have that too.

Imo Arma2 is too advanced (technically) to just be a "mil sim". It could be a mil sim, a corridoor shooter, a console shooter, a third person action game, etc... Usually when a game tries to appeal to everyone, it ends up getting watered down, but I think Arma might be an exception to the rule. Arma2 is already like a mixture of CoD, BF3, Hawkx, Operation Flashpoint, and some other stuff. And that's Arma2... imagine how deep Arma3 could be!

All the ingredients are there, they just need to refine their recipes a bit.

[NoRailgunner 0]

You can get players out of shooters but you can't take this shooter gameplay attitude out of these people. ;)

[feralcircus 2]

Who actually believes that while BIS are meticulously mapping the stars & moon phases for a 'shooting game' they're considering a spotty little chav gripping a joypad covered in his own jiz?

I seriously doubt it :-s

[trini scourge 1]

Who actually believes that while BIS are meticulously mapping the stars & moon phases for a 'shooting game' they're considering a spotty little chav gripping a joypad covered in his own jiz?

I seriously doubt it :-s

Bypassing your immature generalization of more casual players. Why wouldn't they want to cater to the broadest audience? The opportunity cost for producing a game with higher userbility is low and could possibly generate a lot of new business. Make no mistake, BIS would love new business. Who wouldn't?

[feralcircus 2]

Bypassing your immature generalization of more casual players.

Quality answer matey! Loved it :-)

I'm sure BIS are doing quite nicely with their range of products.

Surely that is why they create these products targeting a specific interest.

That's why Microsoft Flight Sim doesn't have power ups, warp drive & laser beams.

[SPC.Spets 21]

just dont make the same mistake as America´s Army 3, some people will understand what I mean

AA2 was great, but then, they listening (Devs) to all those cod cs noobs fragwhores and AA3 was the result of that, pure crap

[katipo66 94]

Surely that is why they create these products targeting a specific interest....

Would be great if the products included an arsehole filter...

[feralcircus 2]

Would be great if the products included an arsehole filter...

Hello?!?!? Does Mr Sense Of Humour live here?

Oh sorry wrong house :-s

If you need an arsehole filter you have serious bowel problems :-)

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I hardly doubt that jumping on an AAS server and rampaging with a BMP3 is "too realistic" or "requires too much patients". I also dont believe that jumping into an ATF game means no more "respawning over and over again" when the it has 15 sec respawn and plenty of cqb maps.

The problem is pure and simple, practically no accessibility to experience this stuff.

[dmarkwick 261]

Quality answer matey! Loved it :-)

I'm sure BIS are doing quite nicely with their range of products.

Surely that is why they create these products targeting a specific interest.

That's why Microsoft Flight Sim doesn't have power ups, warp drive & laser beams.

Well, of course I agree with the principal that BIS should target the more "mature" and "realism orientated" market, changing the product to chase the lowest common denominator is clearly not going to happen :) a fat slice of a thin pie is better than a thin slice of a fat pie. Or something.

It doesn't mean that ArmA cannot encompass other game modes & types though, in fact it already can through simple mission creation (just about any FPS game type can be created) and mod support. But one of the things that can definitely improve is the whole mod management circus.

That, and the GUI which has also been discussed :)

[feralcircus 2]

in fact it already can through simple mission creation (just about any FPS game type can be created) and mod support. But one of the things that can definitely improve is the whole mod management circus.

Exactly matey :-)

Although I haven' t used many mods since OFP apart from the god sent little addon that removes the fake mountains in ARMA 2

[katipo66 94]

This message is hidden because FeralCircus is on your ignore list.

first time to use this

It doesn't mean that ArmA cannot encompass other game modes & types though, in fact it already can through simple mission creation (just about any FPS game type can be created) and mod support.

Thats the message :)

[dmarkwick 261]

apart from the god sent little addon that removes the fake mountains in ARMA 2

That sounds like an excellent little addon ;)

[feralcircus 2]

first time to use this

You blindly call a complete stranger an arsehole then skulk away lol?!?!?

At least you have your little dancing banana friend yeeEEee!

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

That sounds like an excellent little addon ;)

That it is matey!!!

[antoineflemming 14]

just dont make the same mistake as America´s Army 3, some people will understand what I mean

AA2 was great, but then, they listening (Devs) to all those cod cs noobs fragwhores and AA3 was the result of that, pure crap

Yeah, you're right. AA3 should have been AA2 with better graphics and animations. I doubt ArmA 3 will turn out like this though.

Edited February 15, 2012 by antoineflemming

[kernriver 4]

OFP/Arma veterans (myself humbly included) should remember the first time they learned how to put new .pbo in the missions folder, and after a while learned how to edit that mission to suit them, or how to download some mod and make it work.

I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it takes time, research and patience. We take it for granted.

Could it be made easier?

If yes, I'd welcome it.

[Banshee 9]

Well as I've stated it all boils down to the initial learning courve. It's too steep at the moment.

When people buy a game, they want to dive right into. Start the game, update it and play.

Whereas updating can also mean: Download some mods if needed.

People do that everywhere. When playing Counterstrike, the serveradmin can specify mods/music to download, and the game will just DL and install it.

You can clearly see: Okay, I need 20 minutes to join this server due to downloads.

Well that's how it should be, right? You know what's going on. It presents itself to you without the need to do research huddle around forums to just hear: RTFM and use the search.

Arma is like the latter at the moment. It's not really selfexplaining why you can't join a server. The gameplay itself in normal domination/whatever maps might be too complicated to beginn with.

But that's why we play Arma, right? Because of the complex missions. Because we don't want to hopp into a game, have 2 minutes full of adrenaline or frustration because of some damn wallhackers. We want the satisfaction of a simulation.

Some people I've talked to said: Well I've tried Arma2 when it came out. It was buggy, it was a pain in the ass with addons, and other games just do it better. Movementwise, UI/UX-wise.

That's a bummer. They're clearly intrested in more simulation-like gameplay. They are sick of BF3/COD quick'n'dirty roundbased "killeachother" fastpace stuff with all those insulting kids that don't know how to behave.

But the barrier to get into Arma is just too high and the hurdes of frustration you have to climb over before you start to experience the cool gameplay is just too high and there are too many of it.

If it wouldn't be a groups of friends who were from flightsimulations, and allready acustomed to dive into a simulation, learn it and be patient with it, I wouldn't play Arma these days. If I had to enter the world of Arma alone on my own: No way!

Edited February 15, 2012 by Banshee