Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Spokesperson

Wall Street Occupation

Recommended Posts

It simple people, communist China is surpassing the west in economic growth because it invests in its people.

"Communist China" has never actually been communist and hasn't even been attempting to be communist since the end of Mao. Their economy today is very clearly market-based, and they're successful because they don't yet have the miles upon miles of red tape and regulations that mire the capitalist system in the contemporary West. Economically, China is much freer than the West in several ways.

@gammadust:

I haven't forgotten about replying to your post a few pages back. I'll make a thoughtful response tonight once I get home from work and have some real free time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ST_Dux

Feel free to take your time. I appreciate your pacience to work these arguments through, discussion definetily worths it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Communist China" has never actually been communist and hasn't even been attempting to be communist since the end of Mao.

Everytime i hear that "never been real communist" i could punch someone in the face.

Hey, they have a central bank and the few cooperation they have are owned by the government.

Can you start a bussiness in china? Real free market enterprise without making crooked deals with the government there? Can the ordonary chinese start their own bussiness? No, because they have planned economy and freaking communism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People are struggling for democracy and freedom on the streets of NYC, Chicago, Denver and in numerous other cities across North America:

https://occupywallst.org/

190 kb image removed

170 kb image removed

6187834314_1877e33145.jpg

wall+street+occupation.jpg

susan.jpg

108 kb image removed

Nobody Can Predict The Moment Of Revolution

Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts on this ..... so please ...... have a nice day :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey, they have a central bank and the few cooperation they have are owned by the government.

Hence, they are not communist. Communism describes a stateless society. There is no government in communism.

Can you start a bussiness in china? Real free market enterprise without making crooked deals with the government there? Can the ordonary chinese start their own bussiness? No, because they have planned economy and freaking communism.

While it's true that there are many vestiges of China's socialist heritage that still remain, their economy has continued to become more and more market-based, year after year, since the end of Mao. They also have far less labor laws than what we have in the West.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too sad that people really dont appreciate what they have. What more are they asking for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hence, they are not communist. Communism describes a stateless society. There is no government in communism.

Have you ever read the manifesto or other marxist literature?

Communism is the MEGA Government. You need Government, you need a distributor for a communist society. No Government in communism... who told you that garbage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fairness is binary. There are no "degrees of fairness"; something is either fair or it isn't, and life is demonstrably unfair. Even if everything we could possibly control was "made fair," there would still be innumerable instances of natural inequalities among people. The distinction we like to draw between these inequalities and "man-made" inequalities is illusory and ultimately meaningless. There is no system in which opportunity is equal because nature is essentially unequal.

I don't see pristine equality or fairness as the objective. Simply increased and sustainable opportunity. The last 3/4's of the 20th century were arguably a reaction to the inequalities of the Guilded Age. Not just in the sense that powerful people had to pay more taxes, but also in the sense that government imposed (with the threat of physical coercion) a concept of equal opportunity onto society: civil rights, welfare system, universal health care in most western countries. As far as I can tell, the objective you seem to seek is still present. Captains of industry still hold a high percentage of the world's capital because the government protects property, banks have merged into larger more powerful and less numerous entities because the upwards concentration of power is not checked, and industries are knocked down by new upstarts all the time (often fuelled directly or indirectly by non-profitable government subsidized research). In addition, contrary to what many powerful people argue when deriding the welfare state, incentive exists inside every human being, it is not the product of market/corporate coercion. This has led me to ask my libertarian minded friends several times "where is the problem?"

In response I often hear they prefer to see bigots be free to segregate their businesses, and the top earners to have that extra 20% income in their pockets in the name of individual liberty. Often followed by vague assurances that human depravity would sort itself out much like the market.

All I can say is that in my view, if a system allows a large corporation to deny entry because of race, is not based on individual liberty. A system that allows productive workers to fall into life or death situations because the market is not in the right place (you're free to starve) is not based on individual liberty. Rather it is based on the concept that a person can own property.

I am personally not against private property, but I think the search for ideologically pure systems is dangerous. It is obvious that government is not a solution to everything. But a representative system that has the consent of the people should be allowed to impose limitations on power (or individual liberty to use your parlance). I do not have a problem in limiting the freedom of those who begin to have an increased amount of power over others. I put government in the same pile as sources of private power. A bloated, overly militarized, secretive government is no better than an oligarchy that controls most of the population.

=====================

There is a parallel issue to the issue of the political systems being discussed, that is often not mentioned: The psychological basis for a person's beliefs. I propose a few points that I admit are far from being scientific, but that may be worth considering:

- History is filled with religious and caste systems that are in part designed to rid the powerful of guilt. In India, the untouchable is miserable because he was bad in a previous life. So the people born into wealth and influence need not feel bad for them, and in fact should not help them. Obviously Libertarian thought is not as brutal, there is a genuine respect for hard work that pushes your way up the ladder. But I think there is an element of "I have no reason to feel guilty about the plight of others, conscience purged" in Libertarian thought.

- I will concede there is an element of jealousy in the 99% protests. When humans see that their status is vastly bellow that of the most powerful, feelings of anger and jealousy are natural and feelings of entitlement do drive some of the protests.

- However those that push for a more egalitarian view of the world tend to do so out of a sense of empathy. This is a uniquely human trait and not one to be banished from the political system. Many protesters see everyone as part of the same family, not a dangerous predator you have to beat down through a self-interest driven system. Do not discount the power of encoded empathy to improve the life and liberty of individuals.

Edited by WeaponsFree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

The social contract is broken and it was the 1% who broke it in 2008 when they claimed the worlds biggest ever social security cheque. Trillions of dollars of welfare for the wealthy; for people like the welfare queens of Wall Street and their ilk world wide.

Yet when others ask them to pay their way suddenly it is 99% who are labled as scroungers.

The social contract is broken yet the apologists for the 1% still whine.

Like any other Social security scrounger the 1%ers want everyone else to foot the bill.

The necessities of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich; and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.

Author the founder of modern economics and capitalism, Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations but I would not expect the 1%ers or their apologists to know it or care.

http://sites.google.com/site/markwitteeconomics/home/economics-309-public-finance/econ-309-quotes

But I bet those Chinese economists do.

Kind regards walker

Edited by walker
damn predictive text

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet when others ask them to pay their way suddenly it is 99% who are labled as scroungers.

The social contract is broken yet the apologists for the 1% still whine.

The country is so toxic politically, that an idea that was once of the Right, if also welcomed by the Left -will be promptly abandoned as communist, liberal propaganda. I surely remember Tea Party'ers holding up similar signs condemning Wall St. preffering Main ST -now it is "protect the Banker -protect the Rich!"

Anyone remember when the Right approved of every military strike in the name of the War on Terror under Bush -now that Obama sustains the trajectory the right have abandoned their stance as wasteful, choosing the isolationist model again. If you believe these actions are necessary -that should be your character or principle - not change your tune with whatever schmuck is in the Big House. That is weakness.

Principled people are rare today -pathological partisanship is the disease of our Nation.

Edit: Would like to note that IIRC, Ron Paul has always had the same stance on military intervention as the exception.

Edited by froggyluv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Walker:

The United States has the most progressive tax system in the world. It is mired by excessive complexity and loopholes, and that is certainly a problem worthy of immediate examination, but the top 1% already pay 40% of all taxes collected.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Have you ever read the manifesto or other marxist literature?

Communism is the MEGA Government. You need Government, you need a distributor for a communist society. No Government in communism... who told you that garbage?

Yes, I have. I guess you haven't, because Marx is very clear in describing communism as a stateless society. You're probably confusing communism with the intermediate step of socialism, in which the state does exist and controls the means of production, that Marx considered a necessary precursor to the end-goal of communism. Here's the Wikipedia summary, taken from the very first sentence on the article on communism:

Communism is a social, political and economic movement that aims at the establishment of a classless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production.

Emphasis added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

obese.jpg

1749hunger.jpg

Just chill out, our world is all about diversity, can't you guys just be proud of it ?!

People are dying everyday, so what ?

As long as I can put my hand on the lastest version of the Iphone, drink a cold beer watching my favorite show on TV like a fat pig, it's all good.

I've worked my ass off for that, if this bitch is dying of hunger several thousand kilometers of my home that's her fault, she should have work harder.

You guys are sooooo right, those lazy hipster/hippies should keep their mouth shut and follow the flock, there's absolutely NO reasons to ask for a change...

Edited by Macadam Cow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi all

The social contract is broken and it was the 1% who broke it in 2008 when the claimed the worlds biggest ever social security cheque. Trillions of dollars of welfare for the wealthy; for people like the welfare queens of Wall Street and their ilk world wide.

2008?

The usual 99% vs 1% figures that people like to cite are part of a decades-long trend where the economy doubled but wages fell flat. (If the women hadn't started working, we wouldn't be eating.) Blame Reagan if you're looking for a conservative and a date, but it's more complicated than that.

It is mired by excessive complexity and loopholes, and that is certainly a problem worthy of immediate examination, but the top 1% already pay 40% of all taxes collected.

And they control 42% of wealth, so I'd say we have a little ways to go still. Then there's always the 93% of wealth controlled by the top 10%.

Edited by maturin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you ever read the manifesto or other marxist literature?

Communism is the MEGA Government. You need Government, you need a distributor for a communist society. No Government in communism... who told you that garbage?

Actually Carl Marx said that Communism is what happens after 500 years of Socialism. But we all know how that failed theory turned out.

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

In other news... Cadillac's XTS is what I want for Christmas. God bless Capitalism!

tXtPXIpM_Q0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not going to comment on this. It speaks pretty much for itself.

2TOK6dp6WC8

Edited by nettrucker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol at the guy at 3:00. He's fighting for all that his parents gave him. That sums up a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny how he keeps looking back for the cops to react but they keep walking by ignoring him, most then likely he or someone else took a swing or threatened the cops to get them to react so they could film it.

Notice how the video jumps to him on the ground handcuffed. What did they edit out?

That video is a text book case of baiting the police to react and when they don't

they escalate until they do then edit out what they did.

Anarchist sites have pages dedicated to it.

Just like the bullshit "They arrested us for closing out bank accounts" video shot at Citibank.

A friend of mine went to the protest in Vancouver today and offered a bunch of students there who were complaining about not have money jobs starting tuesday.

guess how many callbacks he got? 1 out of 33. We shall see if that guy shows up tommorow at 7:30pm to work.

I'm betting NO

Edited by jblackrupert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's great when you can dismiss the concerns of an entire movement based on watching some one, single guy who you don't like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always bear in mind that groups infiltrate and undermine (and are on the payroll) its a usual tactic. So when you see something that is a anarchist group making it look bad for everyone else that's highlighted more than others, stop to asses whether or not your looking at that process in action. Especially when it looks so obvious or your itching your head and chin stroking as they really look like they trying to interject problems and "start something".

Not saying all of it, but balance it up before making a swaying judgement of the entire movement and point, and always look at how much mainstream airtime they get along side youtube hits and popularity.

"Payroll activism" ... keeps the point clouded so you either look away or ignore it all completely, which is a perfect outcome if your at the stage of attacking a movements point that you really dont like & dont want a bigger populace to understand or take note about. Police undercover do the same many cases and reports of police on the "other side" kicking off to get the riot to open up for police to have reasons to step in.

The golden phrase is chew on the meat and spit out the bones, meat = the points ans sentiment that are real and exist, the bones are trouble making groups either jumping on the bandwagon for fun, or have an ego more than those they oppose, or they are being paid to do it, and the general straggling circus that gets pushed under your nose and hits you first before you look into the subject more.

Although I think its a bit far gone at the moment as you cant ignore the state of the world / economy right now unless your choosing to ignore it, no matter how much its portrayed using the circus tactic :)

When you see these videos that are just pointless and people causing issues than helping, imagine its a massive book full of thousands of people on a page and those ones are in a game of "where's wally" ... TV land/media (contractually compromised sources & funded groups) will find wally for you all day, the rest of the crowed are the real people & the true / real points, but as the game plays, you ignore everything else and just focus on wally ;)

Edited by mrcash2009

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny how he keeps looking back for the cops to react but they keep walking by ignoring him, most then likely he or someone else took a swing or threatened the cops to get them to react so they could film it.

Notice how the video jumps to him on the ground handcuffed. What did they edit out?

That video is a text book case of baiting the police to react and when they don't

they escalate until they do then edit out what they did.

Anarchist sites have pages dedicated to it.

Just like the bullshit "They arrested us for closing out bank accounts" video shot at Citibank.

A friend of mine went to the protest in Vancouver today and offered a bunch of students there who were complaining about not have money jobs starting tuesday.

guess how many callbacks he got? 1 out of 33. We shall see if that guy shows up tommorow at 7:30pm to work.

I'm betting NO

Don't you get it at all?

I hope that guy does have the balls and doesn't show up at all!

How long do you think he/they will keep that job, before they let him/them, go again?

This is call for a change, better future and they won't achieve that by mindlessly keeping their mouth shut and keep packing shit for company that was propably even bailed and than, the same company, as to say thank you to tax payers, will let go more of their stuff to keep the costs down.

Moreover after that, they will buy robotics instead of hireing real people to maximize profits!!!

Anti-greed, that is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These Occupiers should be armed to the teeth -to prove loyalty to America, freedom and the Constitution.

Edited by froggyluv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×