Wall Street Occupation

[Baff1 0]

Wouldn't disagree, but it is what it is unless someone can do better, and points still stand if they are stood making idiots of themselves or they stopped at home, it will only be another set of people next time.

It will be the exact same serial idiots at the next one.

[mrcash2009 0]

And you will all be waiting for the cherry picking no less (see above).

[st_dux 26]

Now I've seen everything -a Liberal actor defending capitalism and the banks getting accosted by Libertarians.

Only n Merica'.

Liberal does not mean anti-capitalist. Only in America does the term even have progressive undertones; classical liberalism promotes extreme (laissez faire) capitalism. Furthermore, libertarians are not against "banks"; they're against the Federal Reserve, which is a central bank given exclusive special powers (to fuck up the economy) by government. They're also against the government-sponsored bailouts of banks, but never banks themselves.

[weaponsfree 46]

Why would a bank in a free market do this? Why would they expose themselves to undue risk when it is clearly not in their best interest? Every once in a while mistakes will happen, sure, but for the entire banking system to systematically ignore risks like it did requires something more than a simple mistake. There is no entity other than the government that has the power to create such a systematic market distortion. The fact that credit (and thus, mortgages) was much easier to obtain than it would have been under free market conditions is the direct result of government initiatives to turn more people into homeowners and keep interest rates artificially low.

Out of your previous post, I found this to be the core of the argument. I don't usually like to refer to economists, because they are much like religions. Chose one that supports your view, and quote it endlessly. That being said, Simon Joshnson was the IMF chief economist in 2007-2008. A recent article of his in the Atlantic draws parallels between emerging markets and the 2008 financial crisis.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/?single_page=true

"Some on the right like to complain about Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, or even about longer-standing efforts to promote broader homeownership. And, of course, it is axiomatic to everyone that the regulators responsible for “safety and soundness†were fast asleep at the wheel. But these various policies—lightweight regulation, cheap money, the unwritten Chinese-American economic alliance, the promotion of homeownership—had something in common. Even though some are traditionally associated with Democrats and some with Republicans, they all benefited the financial sector. Policy changes that might have forestalled the crisis but would have limited the financial sector’s profits."

Seems to me if the government had not been an actor in the drama, the actions taken by the financial sector would have been the same: The securitisation process eliminates almost all risk, therefore we MUST push home ownership to riskier markets. If we don't someone else will, and we will fall behind.

As long as I'm cherry picking economists, there are some very interesting interviews on the Renegade Economist youtube page. I enjoyed this interview in particular.

http://www.youtube.com/RenegadeEconomist#p/u/0/7F2FKxxN_IE

It's true the 99% aren't very focused. But when you look at the issues at stake, the vast amount of interconnected systems that distribute power and divide labour, it's not easy to come up with one or two demands that address them all. My personal beef and the reason I sympathize with the 99% movement (and to a degree the Tea Party) is that concentrated power is dangerous. Markets are generally good at dividing labour, but they are also incredibly dangerous systems that can give a few people a huge amount of power over others. Too much power in the hands of government and private oligarchy is something I think everyone should be wary of.

[froggyluv 2136]

Liberal does not mean anti-capitalist. Only in America does the term even have progressive undertones; classical liberalism promotes extreme (laissez faire) capitalism. Furthermore, libertarians are not against "banks"; they're against the Federal Reserve, which is a central bank given exclusive special powers (to fuck up the economy) by government. They're also against the government-sponsored bailouts of banks, but never banks themselves.

Believe it or not - I knew that about Classical Liberalism. Great thing about this thread is it really makes you learn abit about economics.

That said, Baldwin is a Liberal in the far left, progressive sense of the word.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Will people please stop referring to western banks as free market entities they are state supported industries. Frankly their staff should be paid the same pay scale as any other civil servant.

Kind regards walker

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15406865

Occupy London: Demo forces St Paul's Cathedral to close

Posting for thread ref mainly.

[Beagle 684]

On this Saturday the 22th it will start in front of the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, Germany too. I will be there for a few hours at least.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Reason they are in St. Paul's is because the police would not let them protest in Paternosta square opposite the Stock Exchange.

Now the police have thrown checkpoints across what were public rights of way and they are claiming it is all private property.

Any one else get the feeling they are running scared like one of the middle east dictators? Wierd or what?

It is peaceful protest, not an armed rebellion.

Kind regards walker

[Beagle 684]

Any one else get the feeling they are running scared like one of the middle east dictators? Wierd or what?

It is peaceful protest, not an armed rebellion.

Kind regards walker

Yes that exactly what I think, acting on the same level right now. I guess by now the demonstrationis infiltrated by payed troublemakers already from various sides. Expect the whole country to become "private property" over night. We are not far from learning that we are not far from totalitarism like we once only knew it in the soviet union.

"Freedom" is only for the productive and obedient from now on.

the world will soon be completly divided in citizens and terrorist.

As we all know from discussion on this forum it is considered that all terrorist deserve death on sight.

maybe automated killing devices can be added to the already intalled oberservation cameras...this has been doen before at the german-german border back in the 80's.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Beagle

[Baff1 0]

Hi all

Reason they are in St. Paul's is because the police would not let them protest in Paternosta square opposite the Stock Exchange.

Now the police have thrown checkpoints across what were public rights of way and they are claiming it is all private property.

Any one else get the feeling they are running scared like one of the middle east dictators? Wierd or what?

It is peaceful protest, not an armed rebellion.

Kind regards walker

It's bunch of anti-capitalists who want to smash the shit out of some banks.

Same as they always do.

I don't really approve of people having to get permission to protest. I think that's fundamentally wrong, but on the otherhand, these clowns will most certainly destroy the hell out of any bank they get close to. As always, so you have to consider their rights to protest against the rights of people to not have their buildings smashed up.

[Mr. Charles 22]

Watch out:

Hilarity ensued

:biggrin:

[Beagle 684]

Watch out:

Hilarity ensued

:biggrin:

Not so funny because of this very recent news.

"Former Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski is resorting to outlandish claims in his bid for election. In a new book, he suggests that Germany wants to annex part of Poland and that the East German secret police helped Angela Merkel win power."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,790034,00.html

[maturin 12]

If you have ever done anything but laugh at the entire political career of 'the twins' (now minus one), you are doing it wrong.

[Beagle 684]

If you have ever done anything but laugh at the entire political career of 'the twins' (now minus one), you are doing it wrong.

The problem is that such individials get elected much to often by even duller minded people...and there are lots of them, just check the usual YouTube comments of today. Back in the 20's a lot of people also had a laught at Hitlers ideas.

[maturin 12]

The problem is that such individials get elected much to often by even duller minded people...and there are lots of them, just check the usual YouTube comments of today. Back in the 20's a lot of people also had a laught at Hitlers ideas.

He lost the election, no need for Godwin's Law.

Unrelated: http://i.imgur.com/lHLo6.jpg

[walker 0]

Hi all

Occasionaly it is worth reminding our selves how the investment bankers wiped out so much of the world economy and so many millions of peoples homes, pensions and livelihoods. This documentary series sets out what happened and large amounts of who did what.

Without doubt too low taxation of the top 15% was the major contributing factor. Large amounts of those who recieved these tax benefits were non productive layabouts who recieved their wealth from their family rather than by honest work and did not know how to invest and so gave it to the investment bankers who promptly invested it in the housing market thus creating the US housing bubble and the derivatives that stemmed from it.

As we are in a time of austerity with massive national debts created by the US housing bubble that need to be paid, a raising of taxes on these unproductive members of society is what is needed. So a 30% rise in taxation on the the top 15% for five years or until we are back to near full employment and reasonable wages for the middle class seems reasonable. This would help make those who largely caused the depression to learn from their mistakes.

Kind regards walker

Edited October 22, 2011 by walker

[Innomadic 10]

Thats one of the things i simply cannot get my head around with the USA. How can you give tax breaks to those who earn more in a minute than your average joe does in a year?

[froggyluv 2136]

Thats one of the things i simply cannot get my head around with the USA. How can you give tax breaks to those who earn more in a minute than your average joe does in a year?

It's easy mate -they are simply better then you or I. By keeping them happy we make ourselves happier by default with the knowing that they -have achieved the American dream.

Ya see if they're richer this year then last, they might just hire 10 more people (or outsource to Third World and buy a 3rd Hummer with the savings), or give a bum $5 during Christmas -aren't we all better off for keeping them richer?

And with their happiness, I just sleep a little better at night.

[Beagle 684]

And with their happiness, I just sleep a little better at night.

But only in gated communities with lots of security contractors around, otherwise it's hard to get sleep with all the noise around from unhappy people gathring at public spaces. Only solution is to buy off all public space and streets to stp the noise...im pretty sure they are working on it right now. We might gain social peace again by simpyl restricting movement for pepekl without money by converting all ground into private guarded property. Money is there enough to perform that and government will help a bit for sure.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/15102011-uk-police-prevent-occupy-london-stock-exchange-event/

This kind of crowd control worked nicely well into the 19th century and will be suited for 21th as well.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Tonci87 163]

Wait they isolate the Protesters so that nobody can join them? I have to admit that it is a good tactic, but if the shit hits the fan Police might be stuck between the hammer and the anvil

[nettrucker 143]

WmEHcOc0Sys

I don't know if this vid is more appropriate in this thread or in the US politics thread.

[jblackrupert 14]

I'd like to know exactly what the cops were doing that lead to this guys rant.

Seems to me there's nothing going on, people are just going about their merry way

while this guy is there yelling with a ton of cameras filming him.

A lot of the confrontations seems to start over the protestors blocking traffic

and refusing to stay on the sidewalks.

Besides. Blocking traffic is NOT going to win you supporters.

[Beagle 684]

The world's private assets of the super-rich have doubled despite the banking crisis. States are drained to death from the banking crisis. People in states bleed for free capitalism. The last social disguise of capitalism fell.

Wars are justified by lies, by continually extended resolutions and sanctioned churches and the pact is sealed with the blood of hundreds of thousands of non-media occurring victims. People, just part of the system, friends with the powers of the inner circle, are killed by mercenaries, without trial.

The list of the next goals is written.

If this is not a matter for protest, nothing is.

"Go ahead, citizen, there is nothing to see here, we wish you a productive day, citizen."

[Tonci87 163]

2yEm87vZ82E

I describe his rant as holy wrath.