Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Peter_Bullet

More accessible mission design

Recommended Posts

The greatest problem in the series is that one bullet out of nowhere can end your run and set you 30 minutes back. This is especially painful in Spec-Op -missions, where most of your time is spent running around just trying to avoid enemies. My friend told me that most missions in Arma2 where like that (I didn't buy the game, because my machine couldn't run the demo).

This really didn't need to be a problem. What I would like to see are real war missions, where you simply assault a town with enemies and be done with it -no boring/frustrating sneaking around trying to avoid enemies.. Make it like Flashpoint.

And based on the reviews, the plot even in Arma2 wasn't that good -so why couldn't bis just make EVERY soldier on your group PLAYABLE. That way, if one guy died, you could simply take control of the next soldier and the battle would continue. Anyway this engine isn't the best one for telling stories, because it adds a little bit of randomness to everything (adding to the game).

I think this would attract more players -escpecially BF and COD -fans, but would maintain the realism in the series. Most people in this forum like the fact that you have to be extra careful and constantly on guard, but I don't. I prefer straight action. People like different things.

And finally, it saddens and angers me to see how much hate there is on these forums -every time someone compares this game to BF/Cod/Crysis people tell him politely (looking down on him) to leave the forums and go play some other game. I truly loved Modern warfare 2 singleplayer and I can tell that almost all the things I loved about that game can be found from the Arma series -except the kick-ass mission design. Same applies to Battlefield-series.

Bottom line: the engine is great for war , but it's being used wrongfully.

Ps. I'm pretty sure there's someone in the community, who makes the kind of missions I just described :). But I still think if I pay for a game, it should already have those missions in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you start a new thread without playing any of the BIS games, and talk only about the campaign? i'm sorry, you obviously just want a block buster story similar to CODs, where you can just run into the action? good then, there are other games out there for you then

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr. Bullet, I suspect the reason why BIS puts in so much sneaking (I'd call it manouvering, but any word will do) is to be realistic, and I think most of the people prefer a bit of manouvering before getting into the sharp end of business.

However, I do see you point that anything can be overdone, and sometimes it is nice to just get straight into it. I don't think it is something BIS should be overly involved in, as community mission makers can cater for that specific niche of gaming. As I remember it, the BIS quick mission templates put you straight (or as near as can be) into the action.

One of the things that keep BIS in business is their ability of differentiate themselves from the "mainstream" military shooters such as the games you mentioned above. And while those games are in themselves very fun to play, BIS would be hard-pressed to match the same blockbuster feeling that pervades the mainstream genre using the real virtuality engine, and with a fraction of the money and manpower that EA or DICE can bring to bear.

They play to their strengths, and in doing so they make a different kind of war game instead of another mainstream clone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arma and OFP (BIS version) are simulators. There is more to realism than just one shot kills: stuff like teamwork, planning, actual mission design and tactics.

The current mission designs are realistic, which is what arma players want. MW2 and BF2, while they are fun to play, are not realistic, no matter how much damage the weapons do.

Arma will stay how it is to appeal to the more tactical and realism loving gamers, while CoD and BF will stay the same to appeal to those looking for lots of action and instant fun.

Arma is a very fun game if you have the right mindset for it and have patience. If you would prefere run and gun instant action, then arma is not for you. I'm not being rude, I'm simply explaining Arma is a completely different game in a different genre to CoD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway this engine isn't the best one for telling stories, because it adds a little bit of randomness to everything (adding to the game).

you're right, many people on the BIS forums seem to be more concerned with the tactical/simulation aspect of the game, rather than some Hollywood story driven context. that's probably the reason they purchased the game. the "story" in ArmA are your objectives.

my advice: just go choose one of the MANY titles which are already available (yes yes, i mean CoD, BF, Crysis, etc.) and quit irritating people here who like ArmA's concept the way it is.

Why expend so much energy, just to convince BiS to make ArmA as boring as the others. They are already available for you...go buy them, go play them. you are not forced to play ArmA.

Edited by ghost101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is especially painful in Spec-Op -missions, where most of your time is spent running around just trying to avoid enemies. My friend told me that most missions in Arma2 where like that

Suggest you find some better informed friends that actually have played the game for a very long time, because thats not how "most" of the missions are, specops missions can be anyway you want them to be, alot of missions in the community are custom missions, theres only so many official missions out there for every version of BIS games.

And based on the reviews, the plot even in Arma2 wasn't that good -so why couldn't bis just make EVERY soldier on your group PLAYABLE. That way, if one guy died, you could simply take control of the next soldier and the battle would continue.

Pufu said

So you start a new thread without playing any of the BIS games, and talk only about the campaign?

ya what he said, you just talking about only one of the many, many campaigns made by BIS as well as campaigns made by players.

Reviews? who needs reviews, those reviewers dont know shit, your going to base what you think you know from some guy that just did a review of the game?! Please, upgrade your computer get the demo, try it out, and or get the game.

Did the reviews tell you that the game has an editor?

In fact it has many editors,you can make your own missions, and make them like you said, and more, and let me state that again, a....n....d m...o....r...e!

Theres tons of missions out for every version of the game. OFP,Arma1,Arma2, OA, Arma2CO,BAF, ect,..,

Most people in this forum like the fact that you have to be extra careful and constantly on guard, but I don't. I prefer straight action. People like different things.

Most people? I think you better get your facts straight, dont make comparisons or statements that have no grounds from which you can prove, your just assuming and thinking thats what "most" people in the forums like.

I truly loved Modern warfare 2 single player and I can tell that almost all the things I loved about that game can be found from the Arma series -except the kick-ass mission design. Same applies to Battlefield-series.

Except the kick ass mission design?! Hmm your just up there with your facts, and you dont have the game, So tell me what missions have you played? OFP, Arma1, Arma2, OA, Arma2CO,BAF, other DLCs, any mod team missions you have played, i mean seriously. Again you have no grounds for a factual comment, and your statements are irrelevant.

Was your intention on the Arma3 thread in fact suggesting something that is already surpassed, or are you just rattling off some points about something you really know nothing about.

or making suggestions based on assumptions and friends, and reviews?

Ps. I'm pretty sure there's someone in the community, who makes the kind of missions I just described . But I still think if I pay for a game, it should already have those missions in it.

You are lost, please just get the game and stop making threads like this, Unless you do have the game but are just uninformed, but get yourself informed and when your ready and have the game and you can think for yourself from direct experience then we will turn on the light for you, and show you all that you seek.

Edited by Gnter Severloh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never had a problem with stealth missions. Just save often and don't blow your cover.

On the other hand, I agree that there are things in AI and mission design that could use an improvement. Being suddenly killed from a distance by a soldier you can't see or hear happens IRL, but if you're trying to be sneaky and wear camo, and the enemy doesn't expect you, I guess you could sneak around in pretty well in real life. Not so in ArmA, where you'd get nailed by an eagle-eyed, all-knowing AI soldier. With an assault rifle. At night, at 100m. But this is a known problem. AI has inhuman reflexes, sight and hearing. I partially remedy this by using a customized difficulty (with enemy AI dumbed down a fair bit, but unrealistic features disabled), but occasionally, I'm still a victim of this.

Edited by Dragon01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres no victims in this game in terms of players, theres plenty of addons, mods, scripts, tools to change the game how you like.

I do agree, vanilla AI can be challenging but if you stop there and dont like it then you might as well stop playing.

Check out my compilation list for AI, theres plenty of stuff made by the community to enhance, fix, change or what have you of the AI in your game.

AI Compilation List of Addons/Mods/Scripts & Misc

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=117674

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MCC or VTS can do this for you real easy and quick like. You'll have to make up your own story tho.

We run spec ops missions all day. Get in, get out, AAR afterwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I truly loved Modern warfare 2 singleplayer and I can tell that almost all the things I loved about that game can be found from the Arma series -except the explosions every 2 seconds and cutscenes every 5, tempered with a hearty dose of running though a tube while firing mah Glock 18s akimbo.

Fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hardly ever die playing ArmA. In fact, I can honestly say that I can't remember the last time I died, and I'm pretty sure it was doing something I knew I shouldn't be doing in the first place- oh yes, I remember, I was conducting a rocket attack with an apache on a position with friendlies around. In order to decrease the chance of killing a friendly, I took a very steep dive into the area and failed to pull up in time- I hit a tree. The fact of the matter is that the game rewards preplanning. If you are killed by some 'random stray bullet', you were surprised, and you were fighting in a position where you were vulnerable from an angle that wasn't secure and that you weren't watching, or you were fighting from no cover and you deserve what you got.

Edited by Max Power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When i listen that "More accessible" - then i see that stupid MW2 with Blackops gameplay :mad:

Good old OFP (CWA) - had nice hard missions and everyone loved those missions

So keep realistic types of missions and no Cod arcade easy missions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I would like to see are real war missions, where you simply assault a town with enemies and be done with it

That was one of the reasons ArmA1 campaign was so much inferior to Flashpoint. No freedom of approach at all.

Also Flashpoint had a lot of sneaking missions.

And there is no such thing as a "bullet out of nowhere" in ArmA games. If you are getting killed and don't know from where it means you didn't keep an eye on that direction and it's only your fault.

Deal with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....also remember ArmA got a mission editor where creating "attack that town" missions are very easy to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quess I wasn't quite clear. I played Arma 2 demo when it came out. I downloaded Arma2 free a couple of months ago (after upgrading my computer, I propably won't be able to play Arma3 with this). I've also played loads of OFP/Arma, so I actually HAVE played these games. I also made and released an F-16 addon for OFP. And I once spent hundreds of hours making a campaign for OFP, so I'm not exactly a newbie either. Making cutscenes was a huge pain because of the OFP random system... But yes, I havent played the Arma 2 campaign.

And I think sneaking in real life is very hard - anyone can see you from 100 meters.. And in real life people die at war. You can never look at every direction. And none of you commented on my idea of using teamswitch. But it was a nice move from bis to enable saving all the time.

What I meant is that most missions involve playing as a special operative hunting terrorists. That means you have to check every corner to hunt down those 5 enemies in a single town. In ofp there were usually several squads of infantry in that town...

And yes, it took me 5 minutes to make a town fight mission in ofp -I've propably played it 30+ hours... I ported it to Arma and will propably port it to Arma2.... I would still like to see those action packed missions in the campaign also, because my mission doesn't have briefing, radio chatter etc.. and I don't want to go through the trouble of doing those. But that missions proved that the engine is good for people like me, so why not try to tempt those also. We could have both kinds of missions. I think if the US ever encountered an equal enemy (russia, china) they would have fights with lots of soldiers instead of the terrorist hunting they now do.

If I was completely happy with COD/BF2 I wouldn't be posting here. I definitely want a lot more realism than those games, just not that much. That's why I never liked the MP component of those games.. I want something that is in between of arcade and uber -realism.

My father is one of the wisest guys I know, and he plays COD and BF2. He doesn't want to play games that involve thinking, because he has other hobbies to develop his mind, just like me. So don't call us kids because of that.

In the end of my post I said there is a lot of hate in these forums. I've been reading these since 2008 and have had the impression that people like sneaking and hate everyone who thinks differently. I think most of you just confirmed my point. Of cource there were also polite answers. But not nearly all of them. So look in the mirror before calling others kids. I'm 23y.o. btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the end of my post I said there is a lot of hate in these forums. I've been reading these since 2008 and have had the impression that people like sneaking and hate everyone who thinks differently. I think most of you just confirmed my point. Of cource there were also polite answers. But not nearly all of them. So look in the mirror before calling others kids. I'm 23y.o. btw.

I don't think theres a lot of hate in these forums, and i havent noticed any hate in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you search you will find a large locked thread with a massive debate about "accessible" it went on for some time & ended in fighting from what I remember.

It was in the A2 general section if memory serves.

The reason I mention this is this thread is a mirror of that one, if only I can find it ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that COD games are marketed towards 10 to 12 year olds who need their hyperinduced paranoid dellusional fix to give their boring ass lives some meaning. Arma 2 is marketed towards a more mature crowd (i'm not saying that you and your father are not mature so hear me out) that like a bit more planing en realistic approaches to the genre.

Arma 2 focuses more on the sandbox experience than on storytelling. In COD it's all about the hollywood cinematic feel while being held by the hand and having the game do half of it for you.

You can get the big war experience in Arma 2 but you need to be good in mission making and script making. In ofp1 i made a omaha beach landing type mission that had the feel and atmosphere from the movie "Saving private Ryan". In the end i was very pleased with the result but it took me the better part of a year to perfect it. You just have to invest time and effort in this game wich is something that is unheard of in a COD game.;)

It's like my sig says: it's not a game, it's an adventure.

Edited by NielsS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 to 12 year olds who need their hyperinduced paranoid dellusional fix to give their boring ass lives some meaning
Don't you mean the Aspartame munching, sugar fuelled, red bull hyped, alpha/beta state laden'ed turkey twizzler scoffing, spiral eyed, reactive, hived minded, unaccountable, cotton wool safety netted, glaze over when lightly challenged, linear thought processing narcissisticly trained "me" generation X millennial rug rat demographic?

:)

Edited by mrcash2009

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't you mean the Aspartame munching, sugar fuelled, red bull hyped, alpha/beta state laden'ed turkey twizzler scoffing, spiral eyed, reactive, hived minded, unaccountable, cotton wool safety netted, glaze over when lightly challenged, linear thought processing narcissisticly trained "me" generation X millennial rug rat demographic?

:)

That's just splitting hairs.:pet5::lecture::681::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the end of my post I said there is a lot of hate in these forums. I've been reading these since 2008 and have had the impression that people like sneaking and hate everyone who thinks differently. I think most of you just confirmed my point. Of cource there were also polite answers. But not nearly all of them. So look in the mirror before calling others kids. I'm 23y.o. btw.

You just don't understand, what you're asking for is basicly turning ArmA into another run&gun FPS. There are dozens of them.

Arma is unique. There's just no alternative to it. So yeah, when someone comes and say this or that should be remove because in X or Z game it's better we tend to get a lil bit emotional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was completely happy with COD/BF2 I wouldn't be posting here. I definitely want a lot more realism than those games, just not that much. That's why I never liked the MP component of those games.. I want something that is in between of arcade and uber -realism.

Then check out Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6 and Ghost Recon. New Operation Flashpoint might also be for you (if you believe what Codemasters say about it). I never played them, but I heard that they're just that - a middle ground between realism and gameplay. ArmA is a hardcore tactical FPS, a true millitary sim, in fact (USArmy actually uses Virtual Battlespace 2, a version of ArmAII for tactical training). There are other, less realistic FPS games on the market which are not like CoD, but also not quite like ArmA. IIRC, new OFP titles are not liked out there exactly because they're this kind of games, rather than simulators like original OFP.

Also, there's the matter of modding ArmA into less realistic shooter, if you made an OFP addon and a campaign, you could look into making a "less realistic, more fun" mod and perhaps a campaign for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×