Inter-unit comms, rank, hierarchical commanding...

[dmarkwick 261]

This train of thought started when playing ArmA2 recently, when I was injured and needed a medic but none available in my group. I saw another group's medic and I wondered if it was possible to get aid from him. So there followed a Benny Hill-esque scene of me running about after him, frantically scrolling my mousewheel up & down whenever I got near him to see if an action came up. There HAS to be a better way.

So I got to thinking about unit management in general. I think it's the GL4 mod that gives you the opportunity to recruit any unit you get close enough to, and that's a good feature. IMO it should be native to the game's core features, with a disable function so that missions aren't broken by it.

First of all, it ought to be possible to hail units at a longer distance representing shouting distance, any unit. If there's nothing more pressing going on in it's current activity, it should respond by either stopping or coming over to you. You know that method of sending a unit to a building position via that little vertical line? Same system can be used to identify a unit and hail him.

Once hailed, you can have access to some unit commands, based on your relative rank. Or in the case of a medic, a rank-independent request for aid. That would save players having to chase units all over the place AND wrestle with context-sensitive actions climbing up & down the action menu.

So, further to this idea is the notion that you can recruit (and hand over/dismiss) units from & to your group to & from other groups. This should be rank based, so if that group's leader is a higher/same rank and does not want to lose that unit, you don't get him.

This would give some genuine rank meaning into the game, whereas at the moment I don't see much. This has obvious mission-breaking connotations, so I would imagine it to be a selectable feature, or a module-based feature.

Sound workable?

Edited August 29, 2011 by DMarkwick

[wolfbite 8]

Sounds like a very good idea.... On a side note .. I think medics need to put more priority in helping the wounded than generally not doing much..

[NoRailgunner 0]

What about AI medic that could heal any friendly wounded unit at a certain range (0-max 150m) only:

- if their own team/group is ok

- if there is no threat close to the wounded

:)

How exactly the AI team/group leader should decide to hand over his AI unit?

How the AI lead should know that he wont need one or anyone of his team/group for further operations/mission task?

[dmarkwick 261]

What about AI medic that could heal any friendly wounded unit at a certain range (0-max 150m) only:

- if their own team/group is ok

- if there is no threat close to the wounded

:)

Improved autonomous medic activity is always welcome :) I have a couple of 3rd party scripts that convincingly do this.

How exactly the AI team/group leader should decide to hand over his AI unit?

By a single "dismiss" command? Then the unit is free to join any other group I guess. But that's not the important part, the important part is the "recruit" possibility. I see the dismiss command as being useful when you have a unit that's too injured to be any use, but you MUST move on with the mission.

How the AI lead should know that he wont need one or anyone of his team/group for further operations/mission task?

I might assume that a superior ranking AI would refuse to lose his unit. And, for selected groups, maybe the recruit thing can be disabled for mission breaking purposes.

[NoRailgunner 0]

I would not like to see AI teams and groups thinned out because of some players who think they just need some extra + cheap AI's to get the mission done. Its somehow like an "extra-unit cheat", if the player can recruit all privates or corporals from another team.

Btw what if the AI lead and player have the same rank?

Imho it would be better if AI units can only be lend/delegate for a certain task or time. Just to make sure that those units still belong to another team/group that got its own task and priorities. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

I would not like to see AI teams and groups thinned out because of some players who think they just need some extra + cheap AI's to get the mission done. Its somehow like an "extra-unit cheat", if the player can recruit all privates or corporals from another team.

I really don't care to limit the options available because of what "some players" might or might not do. As a functionality, I think it has uses, and as I recommended there would be a function to disable/disallow it. Plus, it's rank dependant, so maybe MP players would be lower rank in general.

Btw what if the AI lead and player have the same rank?

Then I would expect the same logic to apply as if the AI was superior rank.

Imho it would be better if AI units can only be lend/delegate for a certain task or time. Just to make sure that those units still belong to another team/group that got its own task and priorities. :)

Sounds like making a relatively simple idea into a needlessly complex idea :)

[paragraphic l 2]

I was thinking, the way you can communicate and order specific units when leader. You should as a team member still be able to select (F1...F12) and ask to follow you, where they are (where is that damn medic?!) etc.

Also nice would be if you have had a huge firefight and are left with 20 groups consisting of 1 or 2 units that they will be reassigned into a few bigger groups by some sort of HQ that overwatches the whole thing. I think that there ALWAYS needs to be some sort of HQ (god-like) presence that controls some AI quirks.

[dmarkwick 261]

I was thinking, the way you can communicate and order specific units when leader. You should as a team member still be able to select (F1...F12) and ask to follow you, where they are (where is that damn medic?!) etc.

Heh, yeah maybe a greyed-out "lite" version of the F1-12 functionality would be nice :)

Also, call me a noob, but often I simply don't know what number I am in the group, and there doesn't seem to be an intuitive way of getting this information.

Also nice would be if you have had a huge firefight and are left with 20 groups consisting of 1 or 2 units that they will be reassigned into a few bigger groups by some sort of HQ that overwatches the whole thing. I think that there ALWAYS needs to be some sort of HQ (god-like) presence that controls some AI quirks.

DAC does a good job of consolidating smaller groups together.

[JakeWed 10]

Dmarkwick, you can find it in your Gear Screen, at the Top by your Name. Took me About a Year to Realize myself!

But, Having A Rank Dependent System of Attaching/Detaching Men from Unit to Unit would be A Huge Plus to the Professional MP and the SP Guys. With the Ability to Borrow AT Specialists from a Other AT Unit would allow Weapon Platoons and Groups to Loan out their Men, Allowing for Players to Navigate AI into Effective Positions and Command them without having to go though the Weapons Group Squad Leader if the Weapons Group need to cover a Larger Area and the Leader can not Effectively Control each Member of the Squad

[NoRailgunner 0]

Allow players to tear other AI teams apart and make these groups non-operational/ineffective is not a great idea. AI recruiting limits + restrictions must be implemented so that any missions can't be broken just by rank dependancy. Perhaps somekind of an "HQ AI module" could do that job and force certain settings (eg keep combat effectiveness) on AI teams/groups?

[dmarkwick 261]

Allow players to tear other AI teams apart and make these groups non-operational/ineffective is not a great idea. AI recruiting limits + restrictions must be implemented so that any missions can't be broken just by rank dependancy. Perhaps somekind of an "HQ AI module" could do that job and force certain settings (eg keep combat effectiveness) on AI teams/groups?

Yes, as mentioned in the initial post :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

OK, I thought you want to recruit AI from any AI team/group just by rank and without any limits. :)

Btw how "dismiss AI" could work?

back to their team/group if this team/group is within certain range

else nearest friendly camp/town/place

or goto despawn/suicide

[dmarkwick 261]

Btw how "dismiss AI" could work?

back to their team/group if this team/group is within certain range

else nearest friendly camp/town/place

or goto despawn/suicide

Well dismiss could mean anything, not really concerned about that. We just need a way to "lose" a member who might either be too injured to continue, or is otherwise surplus. So either he joins the nearest group, returns to initial start location, or simply waits where he is, whatever.

Edited August 31, 2011 by DMarkwick

[Pyronick 21]

I've read a few suggestions concerning an HQ commanded by AI. I think this actually is a very good idea. It will certainly make the game more dynamic, complementing or replacing the SecOps module.

For instance when a recon group is in trouble the HQ could decide, based on support/evac request, whether a SAR or logistics or combat unit needs to be sent.

It sounds very difficult to program and test such a module considering you need to use a lot of deciding factors (distance, availability, vicinity to enemy territory/conflict, combat readiness), but I can see a lot of potential in such a system.

This is exactly the out-of-the-box mentality that makes BIS and it's community what it is.