3rd person and crosshair - enable by default in MP?

[PuFu 4591]

How many times does it have to be said that the server owner should know what difficulty they want there server to use?

Most public servers don't have an admin 24/7 present. That said, unless the admin changes the regular difficulty settings manually to remove 3rd and crosshairs, there is nothing much else he can do when he's not present. The default will always be regular.

Do you know how many times i had to restart a game because i forgot to set the difficulty level to veteran/expert? In the end the difficulty got modified from the server.cfg to match a different dif level.

All some of us want is to be able to set a default difficulty without needing to modify the regular. It's hardly a weird thing to ask for.

Do you think they run PVP and online servers with 3rd and crosshairs by accident? Changing the default setting wont change how people play the game..

Why don't all you who have such a boner for ultra realism just start your own server with the rules you want?

I have. Still settings things in for a range of different games is way to harder that it needs to be for the average admin.

[galzohar 31]

Yes. So many times I had to ask someone to restart the mission or restart the mission myself because the wrong difficulty was mistakenly chosen.

They can keep the "easy"/"arcade" defaults for SP, where people who are truly new to the game should play...

The only thing truly wrong with "expert" is the lack of VON ID. Don't really understand why "expert" disables it by default.

Easiest fix would be to change default to veteran and change veteran to not have 3rd person nor crosshair enabled by default, to minimize how much admins/players need to mess with difficulty settings to get what they actually want.

Making it easier to set up a server with common PvP/realism settings is a good thing. If you want to play the game in an arcadish fashion you're still free to do so...

[dsi24 12]

I cannot understand why one would create a simulation then try to cater to the arcade oriented.

Obviously it should be an option, and most certainly should be included in easy mode in SP, but it should not be default. (It could even be a preset)

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I cannot understand why one would create a simulation then try to cater to the arcade oriented.

Because ArmA is infact a game based on a simulator. And even VBS has 3rd person view because more specificaly it is a tactics simulator. Not a generic, do all, this is 'Third Life Lawnmower Man' style simulator. Or a specific FPS hard as nuts tunnel vision simulator.

3rd person fills a gap in a lose sort of way if you consider how much spacial and situational awareness is lost by the first person view when driving/piloting or ordering about a number of units. Bottom line is it has its place within the breadth of possibilty that is ArmA. BIS just needs to ensure that server settings are flexible enough to cater to as many flavours of playstyle possible.

[*LK1* 10]

I cannot understand why one would create a simulation then try to cater to the arcade oriented.

Obviously it should be an option, and most certainly should be included in easy mode in SP, but it should not be default. (It could even be a preset)

they want to satisfy both. with which result? no comment on that.

Because ArmA is infact a game based on a simulator. And even VBS has 3rd person view because more specificaly it is a tactics simulator. Not a generic, do all, this is 'Third Life Lawnmower Man' style simulator. Or a specific FPS hard as nuts tunnel vision simulator.

3rd person fills a gap in a lose sort of way if you consider how much spacial and situational awareness is lost by the first person view when driving/piloting or ordering about a number of units. Bottom line is it has its place within the breadth of possibilty that is ArmA. BIS just needs to ensure that server settings are flexible enough to cater to as many flavours of playstyle possible.

there's just a problem. the ability to look around by moving your neck (fre look) is already able to replace the 3d view option, which is obsolete at any level.

Edited September 14, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[dsi24 12]

Because ArmA is infact a game based on a simulator. And even VBS has 3rd person view because more specificaly it is a tactics simulator. Not a generic, do all, this is 'Third Life Lawnmower Man' style simulator. Or a specific FPS hard as nuts tunnel vision simulator.

3rd person fills a gap in a lose sort of way if you consider how much spacial and situational awareness is lost by the first person view when driving/piloting or ordering about a number of units. Bottom line is it has its place within the breadth of possibilty that is ArmA. BIS just needs to ensure that server settings are flexible enough to cater to as many flavours of playstyle possible.

The fact that we're able to turn our heads completely invalidates any argument for 3rd person, 3rd person is an obsolete method to solve the problem (awareness) solved by the ability to turn one's head. It also allows for simple cheating by stepping near a corner, the ability to turn one's head does not do this.

You're making me want to support total removal of 3rd person now tbh. (Crosshair can be an svar though)

[pathetic_berserker 4]

there's just a problem. the ability to look around by moving your neck (fre look) is already able to replace the 3d view option, which is obsolete at any level.

Any level of what? Think of how you use peripheral vision, spacial awarness and perspective when your doing day to day activities and not looking down a weapon sight. How much do you realy need to turn your head?

Or are you declaring that ArmA is only good for FPS?

I'm not saying 3rd person is good for all game modes or situations. Just saying it has its place.

You're making me want to support total removal of 3rd person now tbh. (Crosshair can be an svar though)

tsk tsk, no need to get emotional. It should always be about giving people options not railroading them into your own tunnel vision.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Pathetic_Berserker

[dsi24 12]

tsk tsk, no need to get emotional. It should always be about giving people options not railroading them into your own tunnel vision.

The option to what exactly? Look around corners without risk?

[woore 10]

Option 4. Maybe BIS will note this poll

[VampyricTyrant 10]

I'd say follow the classic rule: Not broken, don't fix it. In Coop 3d person might be useful, but in PvP it can't work. So, both communities can choose to have it or not. The same can be said with crosshair, in PvP I can put a mark in the center of my screen or have crossair, its the same.

[celery 8]

I'd say follow the classic rule: Not broken, don't fix it. In Coop 3d person might be useful, but in PvP it can't work. So, both communities can choose to have it or not. The same can be said with crosshair, in PvP I can put a mark in the center of my screen or have crossair, its the same.

That brings very little to a thread where default settings themselves are being discussed. It will be possible to change the difficulties regardless of what the defaults are.

[Sleep 10]

neither. :cool:

[ghost101 10]

neither and never.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

The option to what exactly? Look around corners without risk?

No. The option to take a more relaxed approach to the game ,or focus on the broader tactics of the engagement (As one would expect in a tactics simulator) ,or to make it easier for newer players to grasp the environment.

I'm not sure you grasp what the thread is asking if you imply that 3rd person should be totaly abandoned.

Example.

As far as I can see there is no problem with the difficulty settings, the current default is a good base for all game modes except pvp. The real problem lay in not being able to change defaults between missions. If BIS cannot enable such a feature then then the default should be Regular - Cross hair, no 3rd person.

[BL1P 35]

Voted for option 4.

I personally don't think we should have a HUD. Or at least make it so its the helmet we wear Or the vehicle pannels that provides the hud, With a drop down eye piece on the helmet or something providing the option of hud on hud off.

Although a free web cam based head tracker that works well would be nice from BIS

Edited September 16, 2011 by BL1P

[PuFu 4591]

Although a free web cam based head tracker that works well would be nice from BIS

What does have that to do with BIS?

[b00ce 160]

I don't understand why people demand things that they "personally don't think" should/should not be in the game. It seems to be an all too common phrase BIS should be broadening their player base, not limiting it to the "hard core simmers" (I consider myself to be in this category, so don't get me wrong here). I am a firm believer in choice a person/community should be able to choose what settings fit them. I love how scalable Armed Assault is, you can go from playing ridiculously realistic to pretty arcady, which is GREAT because the game never stagnates. Its very rare that a single game can offer such a diverse game experience, and it would be a shame if that were ruined.

3rd person has a purpose, if not just looking at pretty models some dude in a basement made. It adds situational awareness (PvP people claim its cheating, however it works both ways. ;) ) by drawing your view out slightly, giving a little peripheral vision. I understand the intent of OP is to decide what settings are default, but it seems like others don't. Frankly, it doesn't matter because server admins will/should customize difficulty levels to suit their preferences and needs. I think BIS should play eenie meenie miney moe and pick one arbitrarily.

[saltatormortis 12]

i normally dont use the 3rd person view

but at my opinion it can be cept inside the game cause its good for learning the game and understand how is your position in the Virtual world cause you miss some of your senses/the room feeling

you can modify every difficulty setting by yourself like you want on the server.

you can create a PVP setting where 3rd pv is disabled

or you can write a script where this view is disabled if you are not in a vehicle. (cause the bad view out of some vehicles)

that means none of the vote options matches for me...

[PuFu 4591]

did you miss like 2 pages of talk about not being able to set the DEFAULT difficulty setting for a server? Yes, i know i can modify the regular setting to match veteran expert, but then maybe i wanna switch from a those PvP games to a more relaxed Coop game, where having 3rd person and crosshairs wouldn't hurt anyone. What am i to do then? Shut down server, quicly edit difficulty settings in the server.cfg and start it again? Really?

[saltatormortis 12]

maybe load another config?

you can create multible configs..

or you can make easy/normal PVP and hard/harcore for coop if you want to have only one cfg

[celery 8]

I am a firm believer in choice a person/community should be able to choose what settings fit them. I love how scalable Armed Assault is, you can go from playing ridiculously realistic to pretty arcady, which is GREAT because the game never stagnates. Its very rare that a single game can offer such a diverse game experience, and it would be a shame if that were ruined.

That's funny because then a new default shouldn't bother you one bit, because you could still choose to have it another way. The difference is that the number of games started with inappropriate difficulty settings due to accidents, inexperience or admin's absence would drop dramatically when the default difficulty out of the box has settings that don't make any game mode a joke, as is the case with 3rd person in most pvp games.

If you're using "you can customize your server" as an argument, you should be aware that it works both ways: why not set up your server to have 3rd person by default, since you obviously want it there on purpose?

3rd person has a purpose, if not just looking at pretty models some dude in a basement made. It adds situational awareness (PvP people claim its cheating, however it works both ways. ;) ) by drawing your view out slightly, giving a little peripheral vision.

3rd person in pvp does work both ways, but its effect in the general gameplay is so detrimental that the mission loses its function. It gives everyone the ability to peek around walls and corners and wait until their opponent is at a disadvantage.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Celery

[b00ce 160]

That's funny because then a new default shouldn't bother you one bit, because you could still choose to have it another way. The difference is that the number of games started with inappropriate difficulty settings due to accidents, inexperience or admin's absence would drop dramatically when the default difficulty out of the box has settings that don't make any game mode a joke, as is the case with 3rd person in most pvp games.

I was talking more about the people with entitlement issues and how they think things should be their way and they have a hissy fit if it isn't.

A safeguard against starting a game with the wrong difficulty is make the default setting what you want. Or, and this is a crazy idea, make every difficulty setting the same. :p That said, I have never seen the accidental selecting of an improper difficulty setting ruin a game. Ever. Even at that, its rare to select the wrong difficulty.

I vote keep it the same as it has been since OFP. Cross hair and 3rd person by default.

See:

I understand the intent of OP is to decide what settings are default, but it seems like others don't.

If you're using "you can customize your server" as an argument, you should be aware that it works both ways: why not set up your server to have 3rd person by default, since you obviously want it there on purpose?

I'm not saying you can or can't, I'm saying you should be able to have as many options as possible when it comes to difficulty settings. That way you can tweak and make sure everything is to your liking and fills your needs for how your community plays.

3rd person in pvp does work both ways, but its effect in the general gameplay is so detrimental that the mission loses its function. It gives everyone the ability to peek around walls and corners and wait until their opponent is at a disadvantage.

True, I was thinking more about peeking over things...

I'm guilty of that from time to time... Well, mostly all the time... :rolleyes:

[PuFu 4591]

maybe load another config?

you can create multible configs..

or you can make easy/normal PVP and hard/harcore for coop if you want to have only one cfg

You cannot load another config without restarting/starting another server.exe

So instead of being able to select my default difficulty from the existing (4) ones, i should mess about, is that the solution then? Sorry, while me or you might do it, the average admin just won't.

The simplest thing would be to allow the admin to SET his DEFAULT, as he wants.

I think that is a fair and reasonable request...

[pathetic_berserker 4]

You cannot load another config without ..

Still it's not particularly diificult to change the actual difficulty the mission is set to. If the server is set up right and admins are actually filling thier roles this issue would rarely exist.

It didn't when my fav OGN srever was going strong and it was populated predominately by PVP nuts. The server was set up so any adim simply set any pvp mission to veteran and we were off.

This is starting to sound more like a get out of jail free card for lazy admins.

Imagine the uproar from teh co-op field and the noobs if you defaulted to no 3rd person.

[.kju 3240]

And what without admin?

Please drop your narrow view and open up your mind.