When in finland........................

[theavonlady 2]

Don't speed!   The end of this week's BusinessWeek cover story on the fiasco(s) of Europe's wireless telcom industy ends off with this:

"The mood is grim. Just ask Anssi Vanjoki. The Nokia executive was gunning his Harley-Davidson through Helsinki last fall and got nailed with a US$103,000 fine - the equivalent of 14 days of his stock-option-laden 1999 pay. (In Finland, speeders get fined according to their ability to pay). Vanjoki appealed, noting that both the industry and his pay had taken a dive. The judge agreed - and this spring, lowered the fine to US$5,500. Thus have the warriors of wireless fallen. These days, even traffic judges pity them."

Does that mean that unemployed Finns with bank overdrafts get paid for speeding?

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ May 30 2002,09:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does that mean that unemployed Finns with bank overdrafts get paid for speeding? <span id='postcolor'>

Some of my friends would be rich if it'd be like that.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @ May 30 2002,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ May 30 2002,09:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does that mean that unemployed Finns with bank overdrafts get paid for speeding? <span id='postcolor'>

Some of my friends would be rich if it'd be like that. <span id='postcolor'>

But then they'd be poor again right away!

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In Finland, speeders get fined according to their ability to pay<span id='postcolor'>

I hate double standards, what a load of crap.

[LauryThorn 0]

You can only blame the left-wing government.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ May 30 2002,10:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can only blame the left-wing government.<span id='postcolor'>

And I bet they have parliamentary immunity or - better yet - chauffers.

[kegetys 2]

I dont see a problem with this... If you look at how much money Anssi Vanjoki makes per year, US$103,000 is like pocket money for him

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I don't think it's silly ... very rich people can just speed and speed 'cause they don't care about the fine. Then someone will get killed because some rich bastard is racing around not giving a shit about anything. This system might make them think twice about racing.

[kegetys 2]

Exactly Gimbal... As the fine is a percent of income, it hurts everyone as much... If you make 1000$ per month and get a 500$ fine you most propably are going to learn your lesson and never do it again, but if you would make 10000000$ month and get 500$ fine you wouldnt care shit about it. But a 5000000$ fine would hurt that person as much as the 500$ fine would hurt the 1000$ guy, so he would remember it too for a long time.

[Longinius 1]

I think that is how it should be with all fines. Fines should be based on percentage of earned income and not on a fixed sum, otherwise the poorer people will get hit hard and rich people wont care if they break the law.

If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.

[Eza 0]

I think that the traffic fining in finland isnt so good... I mean... would you actually pay 103,000$ for slight speeding? (+20km/h to 50km/h ) EVEN if you had the money to do it 1000 times...

And i read somewhere that some big-boss drove 71km/h in 40km/h zone and got about 10,000€ fine, if he would have drove 70km/h the fine would have been about 500 €...

The finnish police has also stated that their radars have margin of error of +/- 2km/h... but i think the guy still got the fine...

Ok, maybe it makes them (rich people) think twice about speeding, but the fines are just too insane...

BUT if you're REALLY poor you can always go to jail to sit that fine away

¨

But still the rich people have enough money to get a car that doesnt fall apart at 160km/h... "Lujaa Lada Laatua"

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ May 30 2002,14:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that is how it should be with all fines. Fines should be based on percentage of earned income and not on a fixed sum, otherwise the poorer people will get hit hard and rich people wont care if they break the law.

If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you know gunball races! There is a pretty famous one here in Europe: a crowd of millionaires has to drive along a given track, which usually goes right across europe, as fast as they can. Of course since it is not an official race, the police tries to stop them, which of course is pretty difficult since they drive the fastest machines you can buy for money. But if they get caught they pay tremendous amounts (but do they care?)

kind of very capitalistic and nouveau-riche, not realy my style. But I thought I should add that little story here!

Dont believe me? Article

[Longinius 1]

"Do you know gunball races! There is a pretty famous one here in Europe: a crowd of millionaires has to drive along a given track, which usually goes right across europe, as fast as they can. Of course since it is not an official race, the police tries to stop them, which of course is pretty difficult since they drive the fastest machines you can buy for money. But if they get caught they pay tremendous amounts (but do they care?)"

Its called Gumball. And yeah, I know about it. I met them on the highway when they went through Sweden. Nice cars. I bet some of them felt a loss going through Finland (if they did, not sure) But here in Sweden I reckon they didn't get to upset. I doubt their fines were higher than 400 USD even if they drove twice the speedlimit. Quite insane. And fun, I reckon. Gee...I wish I was rich to.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ May 30 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Do you know gunball races! There is a pretty famous one here in Europe: a crowd of millionaires has to drive along a given track, which usually goes right across europe, as fast as they can. Of course since it is not an official race, the police tries to stop them, which of course is pretty difficult since they drive the fastest machines you can buy for money. But if they get caught they pay tremendous amounts (but do they care?)"

Its called Gumball. And yeah, I know about it. I met them on the highway when they went through Sweden. Nice cars. I bet some of them felt a loss going through Finland (if they did, not sure) But here in Sweden I reckon they didn't get to upset. I doubt their fines were higher than 400 USD even if they drove twice the speedlimit. Quite insane. And fun, I reckon. Gee...I wish I was rich to.<span id='postcolor'>

I saw a short film on them (fucking morons)! Surprising enough but I think we were actually caught most often in the Eastern countries. Actually the police sticked to them and did not let them overtake, whenever they tried, they had to pay a fine.

[PitViper 0]

Guess there is no "equal treatment under the law" in Europe. not surprised.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

Letting rich brats with zero respect for other people's safety get away with what to them is a petty cash fine... do you call that "equal treatment under the law" ?

It really pisses me off - there's no reason what so ever to drive above speed limits, unless you're a mindless fool who weight your own entertainment higher than other people's lives. People get's killed every day because these morons think it's ok for them to take the car home after getting high and drunk, or because they're late for a stupid meeting.

I know of people who purposely drive too fast past speed cameras, just to get a picture of themselves making faces behind the wheel. They don't give a shit about the fine that comes with it - or the people they could run over.

Speeders should have their driver's licence taken for 6 months the first time they're caught in speeding, even 1 mile too fast. Second time they should have it permanently taken for life. If they ever get caught driving a car after that, they should be send to prison for a couple of years - no fines or parole - as they have no respect for such things. They should sit there behind bars and see how their rich parents can't keep them from being butt-fucked in the shower by some psycho nazi.

Damn, I should be in charge of this planet. Then things would be under control!

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ May 30 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Guess there is no "equal treatment under the law" in Europe.  not surprised.<span id='postcolor'>

Umh... Since when has Finland been representing the whole europe?

But anyway, the purpose of this "päiväsakko" system is to keep the punishment equal to everyone, so if you are a very rich guy you suffer equally as much as the poor people would.

[ralphwiggum 6]

the reason I like Finlands fine system is becuase it's more equal.

consider fixed amount fine. Then someone who earns $40K a year getting $200 speeding ticket is *slightly* more devastating to his wallet then someone who makes $200K. In other words. poorer you are, the more *fine* you pay in terms of your income.

by making percentage pay of fine, it seems like ppl are punished by what they are worth, not how society dictates on fixed amount.

[foxer 0]

Soo if the guy is going 100 mph over the speed limit all he does is pay a fine ? IN america the guy would be put in jail.

Also have you people ever seen american drivers? We have some of the worst drivers in the world.

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ May 30 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Soo if the guy is going  100 mph over the speed limit all he does is pay a fine ? IN america the guy would be put in jail.<span id='postcolor'>

Umh... If you go fast enough you of course go to jail and/or get your license taken off. I cannot remember the limits but I would guess 100mph over the limit (around 160kmh?) would rank as a outrageous traffic hazardisation and you would go to jail for a long time for that, and would propably never (legally) drive a car anymore.

[Longinius 1]

"Guess there is no "equal treatment under the law" in Europe. not surprised."

How can it get any fairer than a percentage? If you drive to fast and you are fined 200 USD I bet it will hurt your economy. If that happened to a guy like Bill Gates he would pay twice that sum with his spare change. He wouldnt even notice it. How is that fair? Those 200 USD might be needed to feed your family for the rest of the month, the same 200 USD is probably what Gates's spend on one meal now and again. Now, if gates had to pay 15% of his income I am quite sure it would sting about as much as for the guy that had to pay 200 USD.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Fining people based on their income is fucking stupid, nothing you say can convince me otherwise.

Why should people be punished differently for the same damn crime? You don't need to fine rich people more money to 'teach them a lesson'. Haven't you people heard of de-merrit points?

Here in Ontario, all fines for traffic incedents are the same, depending on the seriousness. If you commit an offence under the highway traffic act (ie: speeding, negligence, etc) you get a set fine and a 'de-merrit' point.

The amount of 'de-merrit' points you get added on to your driving record depends on the seriousness of the offence, the de-merrit points last for a few years, if you accumulate a certain amount of points in a fixed set of time (12 points in 2 years, I think) your driver's licence will be removed for a probationary period.

If you get a large amount of 'de-merrit' points from one incedent, or alot in a short period of time, you will get a letter of warning asking you to report to your local MTO office, and you have to eplain to them why you should be able to keep your license.

So there!

Tyler

[PitViper 0]

Not being able to drive would be far more punishment for a rich person than for a welfare recipient.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

ahh yes, but think of it this way Assault: The only way to keep people from doing things that are against the law is to make the consequences for that action so unpleasant that they will either be deterred from it, or wont do it again. Now, for an executive in a Porsche Turbo, whats a 150 $ ticket? nothing, he can afford to do it over and over again, while at the same time putting other drivers and pedestrians at risk at the same time. So, you hit him where it hurts. After gettin nailed with a fine like that, do you think he will be speeding again? I dont think so. The percentage by income message is the only way to do it fairly, so that a blue collar worker making 30,000 a year wont get nailed with a ticket that will break him financially.

[PitViper 0]

Make him do some community service. I guarantee you he'd hate that more than any fine.