Idea for a complex aiming system

[Nicholas 5]

Anyone with the correct amount of experience can shoot a gun accurately. It doesn't matter if they are civilian or military.

I have grown up shooting weapons myself (I own many guns) and have military background in my family. Shooting a weapon accurately is not hard. As for the recoil/kick/loud bang from the gun, you get so focused on what you're doing that it doesn't effect you that much.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Nicholas

[ghostnineone 10]

^not to mention 5.56 has like zero recoil.

it takes me forever to line things up with a mouse, so i would rather not make it even more painful.

i dont really see how they can change it, making the guns less accurate means that its going to take more rounds to score a hit than necessary, and skill wont matter because your weapon wont allow you to hit someone at 500m regardless of how well you control recoil etc

[subs17 9]

I've never fired an assault rifle - what is difficult about aiming it? Lining the sights up? Getting the position right? Actually pointing it correctly in the direction?

Its not difficult at all for a person that is taught how to use one IRL its actually quicker and easier to fire one than it is in Arma. The more difficult stuff is hitting targets far away eg sniper rifles etc. Which is where you have to hold the weapon correctly and squezze the trigger etc.

[Militant1006 11]

not so much civilian, I had military training, never said the "minigame" was needed or BIS should include it, I was just throwing ideas around, I don't have a problem if someone has better ideas, I like to see them.

[ghostnineone 10]

correct me if im wrong, but at longer ranges youre supposed to shoot like this (more stable, less range of motion)

and use this for closer range (you can walk with it normally and your plates are towards the enemy, but its less stable but faster and you have better movement, but in arma they dont lean forward as much, they just kind of shoulder the weapon)

maybe a change stance button? i really like how SMK does the stand, squat, crouch, sniper sit, prone thing

[rye1 21]

Yeah, tuck in and keep the frontal plate towards the enemy. OODA loop. That's a good idea Ghost.

[Militant1006 11]

yeah, looks like a good idea ghost.

[dysta 10]

About the aiming and stances, check this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GlPrehJQcA

[metalcraze 290]

problem why people what to change something because current aiming system is rubbish.

Take AK74 and try shoot target at 100m in real life and game you will understand what I'm talking about.IT IS SO EASY!NO recoil no sound effect no desperation no specific things like every gun have own trace for bullet.Feels same as you kill fly with gum.

Thats for every weapon in game.I'm not understand why so diffecult go to YouTube and see effects and sounds and specs.

Actually ArmA2 has true enough recoils. I fired AKM irl and it doesn't have any hand-tearing recoil provided held right - and then recoil is really minimal. Just like it is in AA2 with AKs.

The only challenge for me was aiming through ironsights - I'm right-handed but I can't close left eye alone without closing the right one.

Aiming in ArmA2 is perfectly acceptable. It simulates a trained soldier that had some battle experience and is a game so I don't see what's the problem.

All I want is breathing management from VBS2. In ArmA2 soldier doesn't really breathe when aiming - the gun just wonders around randomly after running. VBS2 has it done much closer to truth e.g. it goes up and down more than anything and much wider up and down it is as well - and it also simulates holding the breath and running out of air - in ArmA2 the gun starts to wonder around again after a while - but in VBS2 not being able to hold breath any longer looks much more realisticly.

Edited July 30, 2011 by metalcraze

[Archosaurusrev 12]

The way Resistance and Liberation does it is awesome.

[kotov12345 10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY

Tell me about it.Play arma and try real weapons.and post here what the difference.

My favorite clip

In game in same conditions will sounds like someone spanking each other and kills will be 1 by 1.

Edited July 30, 2011 by kotov12345

[metalcraze 290]

What exactly should I see in those videos?

That .50 cals have a large recoil? It is so in ArmA2 as well.

[subs17 9]

correct me if im wrong, but at longer ranges youre supposed to shoot like this (more stable, less range of motion)

and use this for closer range (you can walk with it normally and your plates are towards the enemy, but its less stable but faster and you have better movement, but in arma they dont lean forward as much, they just kind of shoulder the weapon)

maybe a change stance button? i really like how SMK does the stand, squat, crouch, sniper sit, prone thing

Firm firing stances are already covered in ACE2 with Bipod and use of support from objects.

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Actually ArmA2 has true enough recoils. I fired AKM irl and it doesn't have any hand-tearing recoil provided held right - and then recoil is really minimal. Just like it is in AA2 with AKs.

The only challenge for me was aiming through ironsights - I'm right-handed but I can't close left eye alone without closing the right one.

Aiming in ArmA2 is perfectly acceptable. It simulates a trained soldier that had some battle experience and is a game so I don't see what's the problem.

All I want is breathing management from VBS2. In ArmA2 soldier doesn't really breathe when aiming - the gun just wonders around randomly after running. VBS2 has it done much closer to truth e.g. it goes up and down more than anything and much wider up and down it is as well - and it also simulates holding the breath and running out of air - in ArmA2 the gun starts to wonder around again after a while - but in VBS2 not being able to hold breath any longer looks much more realisticly.

Although I haven't looked closely at ACE2 yet I think breathing rate is a good one as is holding breath to take a shot.

[Nicholas 5]

ArmA II does include holding breath. It "holds breath" when you hold the right mouse button, which also zooms in.

[subs17 9]

yeah, a new game means as many improvements as possible basically, you can't just re-release it, but, then again, no one said that BIS must include any of the things discussed here, just some suggestions, if people want to share their ideas on what they think will improve the game then I see no point posting just to say no one should do any of this.

and by the way I did really like smurf's idea, sounded good.

Do you have a trakir? I suggest you get one and try it with Arma2, you have to combine trakir movement with the mouse to line your head with the sight to aim. From my own view it is much slower than IRL and more difficult for an FPS. Thats whats shown in that video, your head moves independently of where the rifle is pointing. I never use it as my trakir only gets used for flying flight sims in my view it is much more difficult with trakir than it is with just mouse.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

ArmA II does include holding breath. It "holds breath" when you hold the right mouse button, which also zooms in.

Not really, all it does is steady the aim the player does not actually hold his breath ingame also the rifle movement is not up/down as it is IRL with breathing rate vs aim. IRL the shot is not fired with breath held but instead at the top is when the shot is released.(and of course both eyes are open:D...IRL) Or during exhale like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ogVTTqJUmU

[kylania 567]

Not really, all it does is steady the aim the player does not actually hold his breath ingame

Sure it does. It even has the out of breath sound if you hold it too long and your aim gets all wobbly from the exertion.

[Nicholas 5]

ArmA II does include holding your breath. You should hear the player breath in air and hold it in. As soon as the time runs out or you let go of RMB, you will hear the player will let the air out and will loose stability.

It also depends on the person, how they prefer to shoot. Either holding breath, exhaling, inhaling, breathing normally, or breathing slowly. I am a hunter and have shot many various animals in my life. I personally prefer to shoot while breathing slowly.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I highly recommend reassigning hold breath from RMB to something else (I use left ctrl). That way you can still "zoom in", and when you're ready to actually shoot, you have air still in you allowing you to hold it.

[metalcraze 290]

Although I haven't looked closely at ACE2 yet I think breathing rate is a good one as is holding breath to take a shot.

The problem is that in ArmA2 (with ACE2 as well) breathing only affects your aim waving randomly and holding breath only lessens that effect. But it isn't really a 'natural' behaviour.

If you are interested enough you can download JCOVE-lite and see what I'm talking about.

If not all I can say is that in VBS2 it's done in a more realistic way of weapon waving more up and down than anything and holding breath is done in a way where after some time the soldier has more and more trouble doing that resulting in a weapon shaking and soldier letting breath go in the end.

[Militant1006 11]

Do you have a trakir? I suggest you get one and try it with Arma2, you have to combine trakir movement with the mouse to line your head with the sight to aim. From my own view it is much slower than IRL and more difficult for an FPS. Thats whats shown in that video, your head moves independently of where the rifle is pointing. I never use it as my trakir only gets used for flying flight sims in my view it is much more difficult with trakir than it is with just mouse.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

Not really, all it does is steady the aim the player does not actually hold his breath ingame also the rifle movement is not up/down as it is IRL with breathing rate vs aim. IRL the shot is not fired with breath held but instead at the top is when the shot is released.(and of course both eyes are open:D...IRL) Or during exhale like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ogVTTqJUmU

Didn't know that about the TrackIR, might have more of a look into it, problem is, I have recently built a computer that is very good for Arma 2 and is capable (it seems) of being able to eventually run Arma 3, so I am a bit low on extra money, also, I agree with the people talking about breathing, it is not very realistic in arma, could definitely be improved.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Militantsausage

[Antigoon 10]

Do you have a trakir? I suggest you get one and try it with Arma2, you have to combine trakir movement with the mouse to line your head with the sight to aim. From my own view it is much slower than IRL and more difficult for an FPS.

You do know you can adjust your deadzones for that, right?

In my opinion, it's even incredibly helpfull as you can quickly glance left and right while having your sights up! And when next to a wall or friendly troops, enlarge your field of view to the other side while still having your crosshairs pointed where you need 'em. One of the really usefull features of trackir in arma!!

[subs17 9]

I'm too unco for that I only use trakir for flying its very slow for First Person shooter but I am amazed by what some people can do with them.