ArmA 2 OA Beta Build 83015

[metalcraze 290]

That bug is due to BIS laziness (as it's been 2 years now so no excuses) to implement soldier crawling through the holes under a fence. If you've noticed AI can walk only through something that has a hole underneath. I guess when they were doing AA2 they were like "ah AI gotta be able to move through holes but we'll fix that later!".

If that's really so hard to fix I'd rather wished BIS simply disallowed AI to move through.

...

In other news: animations of "readying the weapon" for AI are jerky.

Steps to reproduce. Put AI squad 1 against enemy AI squad 2. Watch how soldiers run and then immediately they have their weapon at the ready without the animation connecting the two states.

It is also noticeable when you put soldiers into "scan horizon" and "crouch" modes. You can see them turning unrealistically and sometimes raising their weapon in an instant.

[Beagle 684]

absolutely agree with that

for all my love for the game series and million thx for all BIS' 24/7-efforts and kinda "full customer service" in improving the game ... but I can't understand why this incredible bug's still around - maybe I would understand it if I was a pro in coding/programming, but unfortunately I'm not: so maybe someone can tell me why this game(feeling)breaking bug hasn't been eliminated yet. Really, it makes me laugh, it's looking so damn stupid AI walking through fences etc. this 99%-game deserves better ;) give it the final + 1%, please

It's more lilke 90%...there are a lots of such minor issues not fixed or features working in previous version but boken in later versions. But the priority is low because these 10% that do not work (anymore) are considered non prior game elements...but the number of such low priority issues is quite high. The most annoying "fix" is whenever BIS just removes a feature they can't fix...and don't bother to add it back when it obviously works in later versions. (examples: G36 aimpoint, Lightsources on Streetlamps, vehicles and lighthouses and A.I. conversation option on A2 units and maps in OA) Edited July 23, 2011 by Beagle

[langgis08 10]

If you've noticed AI can walk only through something that has a hole underneath.

... yes, noticed that - or AI walks through an obstacle that's low enough to climb over (those lower wooden fences in the fields of Chernarus, for example).

Anyway, these cases make it even more incomprehensible for me:

AI walks through obstacles that could be left behind by climbing over and/or crawling underneath. So it's just the logical, following animation that's wrong (walking instead of crawling/climbing). But these animations are implemented in general (AI is able to climb and to crawl, of course, in other circumstances), there's "just" no link to these implemented animations in case when AI's standing in front of these obstacles.

...but the number of such low priority issues is quite high.

correct, it's the sum of them little ones.

Edited July 23, 2011 by langgis08

[metalcraze 290]

There's a hole in that wooden fence too ;)

This and the inability of AI to normally behave indoors on its own (without human handholding) should be finally fixed (what's the point in enterable buildings?). And earlier than ArmA3, BIS.

[Brainbug 10]

Yeah, I assume Arma3 will basically port over all this logic stuff (like Arma2 did from Arma1) so there would be no point in waiting.

But it might be just a heap of work that is set back because of priorities (after all it works, just doesn't look good, other things however don't work and need to be fixed asap).

For example, just imagine if the current state was that each object has a variable asking "can AI walk on this" with the values "yes" and "no", that would have to be changed to a different variable asking "how can AI go through here" with the possible values "by walking upright", "by duck-walking", "by crawling" or "not at all". You would have to write this easy stuff in a hell of a lot of places and certainly forget a number of them, that means hours of coding and more of testing. In these hours you can probably fix several other more severe bugs. But certainly there is much much more to it than just changing one variable, otherwise BIS would have done it much earlier I'm sure.

So it might be that even Arma3 still has AI walking through fences and walls. It's all about priorities...

[jedra 11]

For example, just imagine if the current state was that each object has a variable asking "can AI walk on this" with the values "yes" and "no", that would have to be changed to a different variable asking "how can AI go through here" with the possible values "by walking upright", "by duck-walking", "by crawling" or "not at all". You would have to write this easy stuff in a hell of a lot of places and certainly forget a number of them, that means hours of coding and more of testing. In these hours you can probably fix several other more severe bugs. But certainly there is much much more to it than just changing one variable, otherwise BIS would have done it much earlier I'm sure.

So it might be that even Arma3 still has AI walking through fences and walls. It's all about priorities...

That's why they implemented FSMs. To model complicated logic like this relatively easily. I would assume that a lot of the AI is driven by FSMs now anyway.

[mrcash2009 0]

I thought the reason AI walked through certain objects was simply the Pathfinding additional nightmares for individual infantry AI.

I would rather them walk through a fence or certain areas than wait for them to work out what to do and then go chase them to make them move. Well, until other solutions come that are mentioned for maybe A3.

[Muahaha 10]

agree with mrcash2009, I would rather have AI magically walk through wall than stuck at the wall waiting for me to babysit it out of a fence. But if pathfindings will not be an issue, then please implement the proper stance to get the AI under or over the wall/fence.

[metalcraze 290]

Except AI won't get stuck at a wall.

There are enough places with walls not having holes in them and AI has no problem walking around them.

[arthur666 10]

Coincidence! Here I was, just pondering a large forest battle. Back to my Chernarussian roots. :) I will build a mission tonite and try beta vs vanilla.

I think we're on the right track here. Missions on Chernarus seem to play out better now. When assaulting thru forests, my squad is not getting pinned down by unseen enemies as much as before.

I like this beta, though I have no hard data. Just has a better feel. Hopefully not just a placebo effect. :rolleyes:

[Protegimus 0]

...

But it might be just a heap of work that is set back because of priorities (after all it works, just doesn't look good, other things however don't work and need to be fixed asap).

...

I'm surprised you're talking this down? If you were playing against another player and he could walk through walls, the base of a house or fences then shoot you in the back you'd be pretty annoyed - so what can be more immersion breaking than the AI doing this?

I'd rather they hold position and either cover, or pour fire into the gap for a few seconds.

I thought the reason AI walked through certain objects was simply the Pathfinding additional nightmares for individual infantry AI.

I would rather them walk through a fence or certain areas than wait for them to work out what to do and then go chase them to make them move. Well, until other solutions come that are mentioned for maybe A3.

This is obviously a different perspective, though equally valid - I was referring to opposing AI doing it rather than leading a bunch of AI and them getting held up somewhere.

Perhaps a tiny bit of logic can give us the best of both - any enemy around and they either wait or traverse the obstacle the same way the player does (simply play a funky animation) ...or no enemy around - they stare at goats and pass through walls/houses/fences and keep up with their human leader?

Protegimus

[.kju 3239]

Protegimus create a CIT ticket with a demo mission.

[-=seany=- 5]

I personally am tired of AI fixes, and I appreciate that the new engine changes that are being worked on will also benefit Arma3 and what we have now. But seriously, after 1 year with ArrowHead I would like 1 patch dedicated to all the easily fixable, content, config, texture and model bugs.

[kremator 1064]

I personally am tired of AI fixes, and I appreciate that the new engine changes that are being worked on will also benefit Arma3 and what we have now. But seriously, after 1 year with ArrowHead I would like 1 patch dedicated to all the easily fixable, content, config, texture and model bugs.

Ahhhhhhh NO.

Without AI fixes the game isn't a game, it's pretty wallpaper.

[mrcash2009 0]

@Protegimus

I was just pointing out the reason why I feel BIS didn't implement so far, the fact of wanting it to be avoided and having AI do things the right way without issue is welcomed from me too.

[metalcraze 290]

Ahhhhhhh NO.

Without AI fixes the game isn't a game, it's pretty wallpaper.

Exactly.

More AI fixes and improvements all the way.

[nobrainer 0]

I agree with all of you....

Yes we need those AI fixes and performance issues fiex.

But there are still things they could have fixed ones and for all. And then continued with improvments.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I agree with all of you....

Yes we need those AI fixes and performance issues fiex.

But there are still things they could have fixed ones and for all. And then continued with improvments.

This is somewhat true, as it seems BIS focuses their bugfixing attention mostly on the most popular issues, but there are a lot of issues that would potentially be "quick fixes" that aren't so popular; they just haven't gotten the attention of the devs.

If bug reports could contain estimated work/time/effort needed to fix them it might bring more of these to their attention; the problem I see is that people who make bug reports often don't know enough to accurately make such estimates.

[suma 8]

Just caught this playing a homebrew SP mission using this beta (on Lingor). Watch the enemy running by the hanger. His weapon detaches from his body and floats alongside him. Sure I saw it in the last beta also. You'll need to view in fullscreen HD to see it properly. Sorry for it being so short - my old fingers couldn't get to record in time for a longer shot!!

I have tried creating a similar situation in the editor, but I was unable to see the issue. If you have a mission which shows it often, can you attach it here?

[jedra 11]

I have tried creating a similar situation in the editor, but I was unable to see the issue. If you have a mission which shows it often, can you attach it here?

No problem, if I see it again then I will post the mission.

[suma 8]

Those small seeds from dandelion (?) are not flying smooth anymore, their flying through the air looks too "robotic"/choppy.

Actually it is not dandelion (those would have seed handing under the "parachute"). Technically speaking it is UFO, as it was not identified, and it was flying. :) It was flying around, captured by a UFO hunter and 2D scanned.

It is most likely a thistle seed, but with the seed itself already missing, only the feathers left.

The movement issue is fixed in 83035

[suma 8]

Now soldiers do "skate" after they have stopped from walking/running.

Should be fixed as of 83018

[CameronMcDonald 146]

MOAR AI fixes, Suma. MOAR.

[pauliesss 2]

Suma: what about the "sky switching texture" bug ? Sometimes its really annoying, I will try to make video but its not that hard to see it, just put yourself for example on Proving grounds map with weather somewhere between sunny and rainy. You will notice the changing texture when looking up and down(not always, but its definitely there).

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well the A2OA world has some really nice little details (even if some of them are only 2D)! :)

Btw is there a chance that the player as team/group leader can order/"force" AI in his team/group to use a certain weapon until the player change this order? For example add in action menu <use secondary weapon>, <use handgun>, <use primary weapon>.

AI still runs around with AT's ready to shoot or switches to pistols (G17). Just a chance that gives the player the possibility to override the autonomous weapon handling from AI.