New since 82901: Visual state interpolation fully enabled - Feedback thread

[.kju 3239]

[82654] Optimized: Visual state interpolation fully enabled.

More info: Experimental betas - Interpolating the future

CIT ticket: #1915: AI warping - especially at distance

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I'd assume it requires both the server and all clients with 82901+ to get meaningful results.

It would help testing to get more details about the implementation, like

• does it influence both AI and humans
  
• does it influence all units types (inf, cars, tank, air etc)
  
• does it interpolate units at any distance (to the player?)
  

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

After testing for 30 minutes today, I can see a lot of jitter / units warping back and forth constantly.

From what I can tell, unfortunately it is significantly worse than before.

Ie a chopper lifting off will jump back and forth to different height levels.

Like it would try to sync two different positioning "worlds" (client vs server?).

Another one if infantry runs sideways, it jumps back and forth several meters when

looking at them from 500m+.

However this is not always the case. For some it works as good as before

with no beaming involved.

Test scenario: DS + 1 client + 3000m VD + 24 AI + A&S ProMode + no addons

Sample videos:

Demo 01

Demo 02

Demo 03

Demo 04

Demo 05

Demo 06

Demo 07

Demo 08

Demo 09

As playlist:

Demos playlist

Edited July 20, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[xeno 230]

From what I can tell it is significantly worse unfortunately than before.

Correct.

However this is not always the case. For some it works as good as before

with no beaming involved.

Try with more AI units/AI groups (inf, vehicles) patrolling an area. Then you'll see that it affects all groups. The worst part is that they are sliding from one position to another now instead of just teleporting/beaming like it was before (including weird direction changes). They are still stuck to one position for some time before the actual move, playing a walk animation. Looks more like somebody is moving some chessmen on a chessboard now.

In SP it looks good.

Xeno

Edited July 20, 2011 by Xeno

[suma 8]

Note: The interpolation, while also seen on MP clients, is still a "singleplayer" technology only, it does not attempt to address issues caused by network transfer. The MP side was not touched at all yet.

[xeno 230]

Note: The interpolation, while also seen on MP clients, is still a "singleplayer" technology only, it does not attempt to address issues caused by network transfer. The MP side was not touched at all yet.

:(

I hope you'll manage to fix the MP side too in a reasonable time frame. Because like it is now with the latest available beta the situation is simply worse than before.

Xeno

[sickboy 13]

:(

I hope you'll manage to fix the MP side too in a reasonable time frame. Because like it is now with the latest available beta the situation is simply worse than before.

Xeno

I assume the SP side first will need to be worked out before one starts on the MP side.

Besides, you don't have to play with this latest beta in MP :)

But hopefully worked out before the full patch, I agree on that :P

Edited July 20, 2011 by Sickboy

[buliwyf 4]

I assume the SP side first will need to be worked out before one starts on the MP side.

Besides, you don't have to play with this latest beta in MP :)

But hopefully worked out before the full patch, I agree on that :P

And i assume the MP side first will need to be worked out before one starts on the SP side.

Besides, you don't have to play with this latest beta in SP :)

But hopefully worked out before the full patch, I agree on that.

;)

[.kju 3239]

Added sample videos and a playlist.

Make sure to watch in HD (as its set by default in the single videos) and focus on individual units.

In some the infantry, in some the helicopters, in some the planes in some multiple types at the same time show this new effect.

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Thanks for the info Suma. Hopefully it can be improved for MP.

[VictorFarbau 0]

is still a "singleplayer" technology only

My first metric for MP would be: what is the protocol overhead for this compared to the current "fire and forget" position updates sent by UDP?

If I imagine to sync client events (e.g. sniper shots) back to a past state on a server that in turn needs to quickly update all connected clients which are probably already in the process of executing interpolated paths of now dead units - this would mean lots of pressure on prio 1 real-time message transmission.

Aside from that - MP clients seem to interpolate paths already today based on direction and speed. I have seen tanks driving by that were reset to their last known position each 1 - 3 seconds. That could mount up to 30m in distance with units jumping back, driving forward again, jumping back etc. And that even a local network session.

I will need to try the latest beta with lots of units. Funny enough but I didn't notice any warping in the last few betas at all.

VictorFarbau

[4 IN 1 0]

And i assume the MP side first will need to be worked out before one starts on the SP side.

Besides, you don't have to play with this latest beta in SP :)

But hopefully worked out before the full patch, I agree on that.

;)

And I assume that you know you can never tell god how to play his dice?:confused:

Because clearly, BI is trying to fix another problem, no?

Edited July 21, 2011 by 4 IN 1

[.kju 3239]

We had a two hour test session last night with 4 players and 12-24 AI - many using vehicles.

Server was latest beta; me too. The rest were 1.59.

It was not as much as of an issue there. However in an action paced play you cannot

concentrate as much as during dedicated testing.

Still so far, unfortunately, I cannot see an improvement here - more the contrary.

And it happens in SP/editor testing too - as it is excepted after Suma's comment.

In any case it would be nice to get more details and if it is useful to provide feedback

at this point and if so what kind of.

[xeno 230]

Same like before with the new patch, nothing changed. Though reading the changelog it's not surprising.

It's a shame that MP has such a low priority for BIS!

Xeno

Edited July 23, 2011 by Xeno

[Big Dawg KS 6]

It's a shame that MP has such a low priority for BIS!

It's a shame that people are so impatient. It hasn't been that long since they finished the SP implementation, so give them more time.

[.kju 3239]

Who says the SP implementation is done?

It is only fully enabled - yet obviously it still has issues even in SP.

[KidDynamite 0]

It's a shame that MP has such a low priority for BIS!

Totally agree! Without the MP part I would not play this game, and I know many that feel the same way.

There are many MP Community's out there, and this Community's "live" the game more, then any SP Dude can.

Please BIS, take an Eye on it!

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess as soon as it runs in SP smooth new tests will be announced for MP. Now even SP has issues/problems with those experimental beta's. Maybe BIS reveals sooner or later what kind of magic they are trying to create? :yin-yang:

[sickboy 13]

Guess as soon as it runs in SP smooth new tests will be announced for MP. Now even SP has issues/problems with those experimental beta's. Maybe BIS reveals sooner or later what kind of magic they are trying to create? :yin-yang:

They already did in general; http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/english/company/developers-blog/230-experimental-betas-interpolating-the-future

If people want to use BETA patches so desperately in MP, perhaps stick to a beta patch from before the extensive changes, until the changes have been worked out etc :)

More BIS love for MP is certainly welcomed, but I don't see the relevance to the beta patches.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Sickboy

[NoRailgunner 0]

Yup

You can imagine it like all AI units are living in the future, but player interacting with "recent" state, which from their point of view is already "past" state. There are multiple corner cases to be solved with various possible combinations of "recent" and "future" objects interacting, but with some work it looks possible. And this is exactly what is the point of those "experimental" betas.

It just looks like the some people set themselves on "idle" and don't know if they should be happy or should be "envy" of ongoing betatests. You can't please all at the same time. :D

[.kju 3239]

No the point is that the system is fully active now - at least that is what the changelog says.

In addition there is the technical change in addition to this statement.

So it is useful to provide feedback for the current version.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 ----------

Feedback from Protegimus

Visual state improvements welcome, though the 'jerkiness' is still there and the AI appear to rapidly warp from one position to another. It makes leading a target moving across your arc incredibly difficult - perhaps more intermediate stages of interpolation are needed so that the AI don't warp so much? Currently this is experienced in online multiplayer:

o o o o

| --------> | ::::::::> | --------> |

normal fast normal

warp

o

|

player

[Lester 0]

It's a shame that people are so impatient. It hasn't been that long since they finished the SP implementation, so give them more time.

SP is nice ... but not all.

The 'old' warping like .82604 was not the best, without question, but 100x better than the warp-sliding since .82901 :(

In MP the AI should act as soldiers (maybe with a little lag) but not as 'ice princesses'

[Rough Knight 9]

Dudes...This don't forget is still "Highly Experimental". Although there is no doubt hope that the warping will be able to be resolved in Multiplayer with this technology [i believe that is the main motivation for these betas], there is absolutely no guarentee that it will definitely work.

I think we all know, we need to leave BIS to decide on the priorities, I am sure they are on top of it and working hard to test this in MP.....it's just one step at a time.

I however am probably as impatient [or more so anxious] as anyone else. Lets hope it works and we can see the results in good time.

[.kju 3239]

j_frost this thread is to provide feedback how the current version works.

[mcpxxl 2]

They should just give us a beta with normal fixes and one with this high eperimental.

now you take it also if you want to have the latest forrest spotting fix you also get the high experimental "thing"

[Rough Knight 9]

j_frost this thread is to provide feedback how the current version works.

I agree. But is the thread also to complain about how long it is taken to implement mp interpolation and how it's not getting enough attention was my point.

Back on track, I have not noticed the sliding ai to be honest, I only run the beta versions as a general rule. I have been looking out for it but not noticed it like that video showed. I'll do some more testing today since I am off work with a busted knee : ( looks like I have broken my ACL and medial ligaments. :436:

[hellfire257 3]

People are far too impatient.

[.kju 3239]

No - we only try to provide meaningful feedback.