ACE for OA 1.11

[kuIoodporny 45]

One of the main culprits in ArmA 1 and ArmA 2 is that once you go prone on grass AI has a huge advantage. Were there any attempts to address the issue in ACE? I guess it's directly related to foliage view obstruction boxes too. I'm asking because I haven't noticed any improvements in that field while playing ACE recently.

In vanilla A2 and OA there's reduction of damage done to soldiers who are in prone stance. We suppose that it was leftover from Operation Flashpoint ment to symbolize microenvironment - now, since the microenvironment is finally present, it became more trouble than feature.

ACE wounding system workarounds this issue, so there's not much difference between hitting lying and standing soldier in the same body part. This should bring some sanity to stance tactics and reduce the penalty of crouching/standing to matter of target size.

Personally, I simply tend to avoid getting caught on open areas, and advance using any cover I can find - bushes, walls, rocks, even trees... this works quite well against AI and excellent against other players.

[Bucic 1]

In vanilla A2 and OA there's reduction of damage done to soldiers who are in prone stance. We suppose that it was leftover from Operation Flashpoint ment to symbolize microenvironment - now, since the microenvironment is finally present, it became more trouble than feature.

ACE wounding system workarounds this issue, so there's not much difference between hitting lying and standing soldier in the same body part. This should bring some sanity to stance tactics and reduce the penalty of crouching/standing to matter of target size.

Personally, I simply tend to avoid getting caught on open areas, and advance using any cover I can find - bushes, walls, rocks, even trees... this works quite well against AI and excellent against other players.

Thanks for your answer but I rather meant detection capabilities - player vs AI.

[kylania 567]

Also isn't everyones arma 2 steam install in program files/steam/common/etc.??

If they don't change the path when they install yeah. There's been just too many issues with mods needing to change files in various games and Windows Vista/7 permissions issues, so I installed to C:\Steam and have no problems like that. :)

[cpl_hicks 2]

Arrrgggg exactly I'm talking about in regards to issues with steam and CO and OA and ACE!!!!

I guess that's the price you pay for such an ambitious game!

:)

P.S. If anyone can please verify, as far as ACE2 goes I thought OA was always in mind with the updates............ why is it now ACE2 OA? does this bring along file management differences in terms of six updater that deviate from ace updates of say 6 months ago? Thanks!!

:)

Edited July 21, 2011 by CPL_HICKS

[kylania 567]

As long as SU knows what games you have installed (by running them once before starting SU) it should auto detect the version you need.

CBA_A2 and CBA_OA will be black if you have Combined Operations (both ArmA2 and OA) since those are only needed if you have ONLY A2 or ONLY OA.

[metalcraze 290]

Thanks for your answer but I rather meant detection capabilities - player vs AI.

There's not much difference between what player and AI sees in vanilla.

Other human players will see you lying down just as well as AI does or even better.

Just because grass covers your eyes doesn't mean ~2 meters of your body aren't exposed.

Obviously grass is just a concealment and as you know concealment works until you are detected IRL as well. After that you may consider yourself to be in the desert.

[Bucic 1]

There's not much difference between what player and AI sees in vanilla.

Other human players will see you lying down just as well as AI does or even better.

Just because grass covers your eyes doesn't mean ~2 meters of your body aren't exposed.

Obviously grass is just a concealment and as you know concealment works until you are detected IRL as well. After that you may consider yourself to be in the desert.

It's not about how grass conceals. It's about how it's getting in the way. Is it clear now? Player often has to move aside because a freaking piece of weed obstructs he's view. Moved a bit to the left... Damn! Another blade!

AI is like - went prone... 1 second... bang - kill!

AI detection capabilities should be limited by a percentage when AI is prone + some randomized, small delay before shooting.

There's a grass related option in ACE settings but it's inactive. What would that be?

[sickboy 13]

Use the grascutter included with ACE? (Don't remember if it was available in OA game itself too)

[Bucic 1]

I haven't found anything on grasscutter usage other than for mission creators. Going through the following

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=109264&highlight=grasscutter

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=97352

sadly I discovered that there's no solution except GDT Mod Grass which is unlikely to be allowed on MP.

I'm surprised ACE haven't looked into the issue as the grass seems to be the uber-AI stronghold.

EDIT:

1. I tried Base Camp in OA. How do we deal with deafness from loud weapons fire if there's no ear protection in the inventory?

2. Every time I fired MAWS I got injured. Third time - dead. Can I prevent it?

3. How do I switch to CQB sights. Neither the OA's key [/] nor ACE's [sHIFT-F] did work.

I've read http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Features already. Might have missed something...

Edited July 21, 2011 by Bucic

[Ians 10]

True , the grass is still one of the AI's advantage , although if you're prone and perfectly still behind a large plant , AI won't see you most of the time , unless you were detected before and they know you are in the area

Anyway , i'll try to answer some of your question Bucic :

1) If you don't have earplug (if you have , you need to press ACE self interaction key and choose to equip them , which is by default on "App key " , the key just to the left of "right CTRL" , which opens a sub menu where you can equip googles/masks/earplugs etc ..)

So if you don't have earplugs , i think the only way to avoid ruining your ears is to stay at least 2 meters away from loud stuffs like a MG guy or anti-material sniper , and i you use very loud weapons , just make sure you're not firing auto mode or firing too often

2) i'm sorry but i don't understand this question , because i was never wounded by a MAAWS when using it .

the few times i'ev got injured with MAAWS is when someone suddenly positions himself just in front of me in the thick of a fight , and then fires his MAAWS without warning , so you take the back-fire of the MAAWS launcher on your face , which can severely injure if not kill

3) Switching to CQB sights for most assault rifles works like in OA , i don't think ACE 1.11 changed that (it added other sights though , like on MK17rco with grenade launcher , there are 3 different sights : rco , sort of aimpoint and iron sight in ACE )

it's basically the same key as in default arrowhead (i changed the key config entirely since i always used keyboard arrows (up, down, left , right ) to move , so i had to change everything ) , but i suspect that if your OA key doesn't work , there must be some kind of conflict in your keys

I had such conflicts in my game , for instance when using the Vector-1B googles at night ... i couldn't find the key to have NV enabled in the Vector-1B ... but then i realized it was the same key as switching to CQB sights on weapons ..

Or for instance , another conflict : when using Telescope spotting device for snipers : i could enter in the telescope but not see through it .... then i searched on the net and realized i had to assign a secondary aim key ( default aiming for me is "right mouse button " ) because it conflicted with the zooming option you have when looking through a scope , so i assigned a secondary aiming key , and voila , i could see through spotting telescope , but also other stuff like some Fixed heavy weapons with scopes etc

Edited July 21, 2011 by Ians

[metalcraze 290]

It's not about how grass conceals. It's about how it's getting in the way. Is it clear now? Player often has to move aside because a freaking piece of weed obstructs he's view. Moved a bit to the left... Damn! Another blade!

Are you complaining that ArmA2 depicts grass realisticly, that doesn't look like a horde of lawnmowers just went through it like on Takistan?

AI is like - went prone... 1 second... bang - kill!

Not really true. I have been a witness to AI not seeing an enemy running 3 or 4 meters in front of him when prone multiple times.

There may be some minor advantage to what AI "sees" but it isn't gamebreaking at all.

AI detection capabilities should be limited by a percentage when AI is prone + some randomized, small delay before shooting.

And why do you think AI isn't limited?

[Bucic 1]

Thank you, Ians!

1) So there's not much really. Too bad. IMO there should be an option in ACE settings to disable this so that player playing missions without ear protection (like the basecamp or armory) doesn't get deaf for real! :)

2) Nope, it was only me firing the weapon. The new ArmA basecamp training mission that comes with OA.

3) Any idea for a troubleshooting procedure then? I couldn't find anything CQB related in ace keys (ACE settings dialog) so I guess I have to make sure that my OA keys are correctly mapped.

metalcraze

Don't expect me to repeat my posts. If something wasn't clear enough, please point the respective part.

Not really true. I have been a witness to AI not seeing an enemy running 3 or 4 meters in front of him when prone multiple times.

I'm talking about most of the situations / general behavior, not some phenomenas.

There may be some minor advantage to what AI "sees" but it isn't gamebreaking at all.

Blind in the grass vs inafected in the grass is not a minor disadvantage.

And why do you think AI isn't limited?

Observation. The player vs AI in the grass is not a sublime but a striking difference, opposite to what you're trying to present, so no fancy testing is required.

[metalcraze 290]

Blind in the grass vs inafected in the grass is not a minor disadvantage.

You are not blind in the grass (find a better position) and AI is not all-seeing in the grass. You do know that AI from his position has a different point of view to yours? So if you don't see something doesn't mean AI shouldn't either.

Observation. The player vs AI in the grass is not a sublime but a striking difference, opposite to what you're trying to present, so no fancy testing is required.

I've been playing on Chernarus for 2 years now.

Grass never stopped me from getting 20 kills while AI in my own squad did only 3-4. Why?

[cpl_hicks 2]

As long as SU knows what games you have installed (by running them once before starting SU) it should auto detect the version you need.

CBA_A2 and CBA_OA will be black if you have Combined Operations (both ArmA2 and OA) since those are only needed if you have ONLY A2 or ONLY OA.

Ok thanks Kylania and Sickboy you guys Rock!

Finally got it to work with your detailed insight.

Thanks!!!!

[Tonci87 163]

2.makesure that you are not standing in front of something when using rocket launchers. Objects like walls will deflect the Backblast back to you!

[atikabubu 10]

Guys, is it normal for a M18A1 mine to destroy a T-55 from the side? :butbut:

[kylania 567]

Just blew up 5 claymores against a passing T-55A and the treads were always destroyed but that was basically all that took damage, even when I sighted the mine high to hit the turret.

[atikabubu 10]

I had 4 tanks, and a mine from each side - each mine scored a kill...

[sickboy 13]

Run latest ACE version, no additional mods, if still able to reproduce, create a ticket with repro steps and mission and details.

[kuIoodporny 45]

I'm surprised ACE haven't looked into the issue as the grass seems to be the uber-AI stronghold.

Of course we did, when You enable Wounds system it's easier to kill guys that hide in the grass so proning is not ultimate damage-halver anymore. You can crouch as much safely as when you're prone on open field.

[Bucic 1]

Of course we did, when You enable Wounds system it's easier to kill guys that hide in the grass so proning is not ultimate damage-halver anymore. You can crouch as much safely as when you're prone on open field.

I meant solely the detection capabilities. ArmA is the only game I know that simulates the human eye inability to see colors at night. Why not simulating the unified binocular view then http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=109264 by making the grass near player semi-transparent?

And yes, I've seen the mentioning of the wounding fix when prone on the official ACE site, features section. Well done but it's not detection related (no sarcasm here!).

Edited July 22, 2011 by Bucic

[Robalo 465]

The grass isn't as bad as it used to before patch 1.59 unless you deliberately disabled AA and the new vegetation rendering (even number for AToC = old grass rendering).

[Bucic 1]

The grass isn't as bad as it used to before patch 1.59 unless you deliberately disabled AA and the new vegetation rendering (even number for AToC = old grass rendering).

I haven't altered any outside-UI options but thanks for the tip. Very interesting!

[sickboy 13]

ACE for OA 1.11 Update 1 Released!

Release Notes: http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/ACE_1_11_Update_1

Enjoy!

[kylania 567]

Some great changes in there! Thanks.